Divinity Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition

[Metatron]

Bioware had to give them a bigger background just like the other overly serious companions, something that clashed with the fact that Minsc was never meant to be a serious in depth character and because of the grimdark nature of BG2 they felt like contrieved comic relief.

1) What "bigger background" did Minsc and Boo get in BG2? If anything, their background was way more serious in BG1 where it was Dajemma-related, whereas in BG2 almost all he spews except when saying "omg u killed dynaheir" is comic relief.

2) Motherfucker you did not just called BG2 "grimdark."

Just a larger quantity of dialogues and that didn't work because Minsc was never supposed to be more than a one trick pony. So the trick got annoying after a while.

BG2 is one of my favorite games of all time but it's hard to deny it is a very serious epic journey (especially with the added save the world expansion) with a memorable yet pretty "see me being evi muhaha" antoganist while the writing doesn't have the same quality of e.g. PS:T to escape the "epic" feeling.

1) I agree.

2) I strongly disagree with your definition of "grimdark." Grimdark is not "something very serious is happening", grimdark is "only serious shit is happening." Baldur's Gate 2 isn't too serious for its own good, and there's certainly nothing inherently bad about mixing comedy with severity. In fact, most of the great action movies in the 80's and 90's were great because they found the sweet spot for that. But we're getting off track here.

Well, that's semantics - let me just say I don't think "grimdark" is necessarily a terrible thing. BG2 was a blockbuster trying to appeal to a relatively large audience back in those days (back then game blockbusters didn't have to be completely braindead) and it delivered on its promise.

D:OS writing is serviceable but not world-shaking, some characters are legitimately witty while others are straight up embarassing. Actually another game that had a more or less similar level of writing was Arcanum, another game that tried to balance more serious situations with some light-heartedness and suffered from a sometimes wonky main plot. The main difference between those 2 is Arcanum had a more interesting setting while D:OS has combat that doesn't actually suck. Since both games ultimately end up being pretty combat-centric despite offering "creative solutions" for lots of situations I'm enjoying D:OS a lot more.

 

[Delterius]

I am seeing the same people who detest Minsc praise Killer Bunny. The irony is not beyond me. In a BioWare game it is cheap, braindead humor, in a Larian game you are a dead old coot if you don't like the Teenage-level shameless references.

Grunker, its fine to be childish once in a while.

I'm not sure what your point is in relation to the post you quoted?

Once or twice in this discussion you pulled a maturity argument. I'm just saying its healthy to be easily entertained if the teenage level humour manages to pick your funnybone. Culturally, I'm actually inclined to believe it is unhealthy if it never does. Its also fine whenever it doesn't: God knows I can't stand Minsc and I've cringed at quite a few things in Larian's games. But neither are such big peeves to me. Partially because I can actually kill Minsc, but still mostly because I'm not insane.

A lot of people in these forums have strangely over specialized tastes in genre and tone. Just as some pick their sides in console wars, people irrationally choose the system of play and also the genre of the setting like they can't play more than a game every year. There's room for turn based, high fantasy, silly, grimdark, serious, realistic, real time with pause, great navigations, post apocalyptic, retarded, diablo like, steampunk, medieval, exploration and etc games. Going to one of these games' thread and complaining about its fundamental nature is no less foolish than the aforelinked youtube rant.

 

[Grunker]

that you actually try to "win" discussions.

Yeah, that's why I conceded to another poster's point just five posts above your own. Why are you so mad about this?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

How can you STILL, after I have made it clear about 50 fucking times, claim that I am defending what I have called "pandering", "teenage-streak" and "bullshit"?

DUDE.

I'm real goddamn sorry but it's an all-in-one package. For every bit of arguably good writing in any BioWare game you've got two bits of embarrassing, cringeworthy shit. Claiming anything in ME2 is well-written is, to me, being far too forgiving of what you call "pandering", "teenage-streak" and "bullshit".

 

[Grunker]

Well, that's semantics - let me just say I don't think "grimdark" is necessarily a terrible thing. BG2 was a blockbuster trying to appeal to a relatively large audience back in those days (back then game blockbusters didn't have to be completely braindead) and it delivered on its promise.

It wasn't meant as semantics at least. My point was that BG2 mixes pretty grave stuff with fun and generic fantasy etc etc. It's not comparable to something like, I dunno, Game of Thrones (the RPG video game thing).

D:OS writing is serviceable but not world-shaking

Well, this is where I disagree. It's pretty clear that we won't get much further without discussing actual examples, but basically I don't think you can say much about D:OS' writing except that it's there and it tries to be funny. Whether it succeeds often hinges on your tolerance for pop culture references.

 

[Grunker]

Claiming anything in ME2 is well-written is, to me, being far too forgiving of what you call "pandering", "teenage-streak" and "bullshit".

That's the biggest fallacy I've read today. "If anything is poorly written everything is poorly written"? I'm not going to say "everything is shit" when Mordin is a great character. I'm not going to say "lol yeah, Miranda is only asstastic fan-service" when her subplot sans teenage angst is interesting enough.

Once or twice in this discussion you pulled a maturity argument. I'm just saying its healthy to be easily entertained if the teenage level humour manages to pick your funnybone. Culturally, I'm actually inclined to believe it is unhealthy if it never does. Its also fine whenever it doesn't: God knows I can't stand Minsc and I've cringed at quite a few things in Larian's games. But neither are such big peeves to me. Partially because I can actually kill Minsc, but still mostly because I'm not insane.

A lot of people in these forums have strangely over specialized tastes in genre and tone. Just as some pick their sides in console wars, people irrationally choose the system of play and also the genre of the setting like they can't play more than a game every year. There's room for turn based, high fantasy, silly, grimdark, serious, realistic, real time with pause, great navigations, post apocalyptic, retarded, diablo like, steampunk, medieval, exploration and etc games. Going to one of these games' thread and complaining about its fundamental nature is no less foolish than the aforelinked youtube rant.

I agree with everything you say here. Everything. Whole-heartedly, in fact. What makes you think I don't?

 

[Zeriel]

Can't tell if this is a very good joke or that you actually try to "win" discussions.

Haha, yeah, that shit is pretty messed up. Codex is filled with too many "everything is a game, and I'm going to WIN IT, GODDAMNIT!" types.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I believe Grunker's point is that codexers despise teenage humour in a Bioware game, but think it's charming when it's in a Larian game. Not that anyone laughing at stupid jokes is a shitslurping moron.

 

[Mangoose]

that you actually try to "win" discussions.

Yeah, that's why I conceded to another poster's point just five posts above your own.

>Characterizing discussions as "winning" and "conceding."
>Constantly making sure others have the right opinion of my opinion.

Why are you so mad about this?

I AM SO MAD RIGHT NOW

 

[t]

DOS dipping below DayZ for the first time. Guys, time to mourn.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I believe Grunker's point is that codexers despise teenage humour in a Bioware game, but think it's charming when it's in a Larian game.

Because the "teenage" humor in Larian's game isn't sad pandering to people who don't know how to interact with other people. If I'm accused of having a lame, corny, "teenage"** sense of humor for going "hehe" occasionally at Larian's writing...I can live with that. If I were to find myself defending BioWare's style of "teenage"....eh...whatever you want to call it...well just shoot me on the spot.

**even though I maintain it's more like bad Dad humor and puns.

 

[Grunker]

Characterizing discussions as [...] "conceding."

You do know the term "I concede to your point" is a regular term in the English language, right? Meaning "you are right" in a discussion where two opposite viewpoints meet? You're so darned set on making me appear an idiot, it's a bit unnerving. I've done far less to inspire butthurt in you than in most other people in this debate.

I'm having real trouble figuring out whether you're an idiot or whether you're just trying to goat some kind of response outta me.

I believe Grunker's point is that codexers despise teenage humour in a Bioware game, but think it's charming when it's in a Larian game. Not that anyone laughing at stupid jokes is a shitslurping moron.

If only I could have CK as my personal translator on a permanent basis.

I believe Grunker's point is that codexers despise teenage humour in a Bioware game, but think it's charming when it's in a Larian game.

Because the "teenage" humor in Larian's game isn't sad pandering to people who don't know how to interact with other people.

How exactly is Minsc "sad pandering to people who don't know how to ineract with other people"?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

If only I could have CK as my personal translator on a permanent basis.

And here Grunker is saying that he likes me.

 

[Haba]

Stop trying to derail the thread.

AGAIN.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

THERE ARE NO BRAKES ON THE SPERG TRAIN

 

[Black]

Those in favour of a sub-forum dedicated to writing in games say HEEEYOOO

 

[Zeriel]

Black, I want to worship your butt.

 

[Mangoose]

Characterizing discussions as [...] "conceding."

You do know the term "I concede to your point" is a regular term in the English language, right? Meaning "you are right" in a discussion where two opposite viewpoints meet? You're so darned set on making me appear an idiot, it's a bit unnerving. I've done far less to inspire butthurt in you than in most other people in this debate.

I'm having real trouble figuring out whether you're an idiot or whether you're just trying to goat some kind of response outta me.

Man, I still can't tell if you're very very clever or you to take everything very very seriously.

Got to go do actual serious things for a few hours, so I concede!

 

[Black]

Black, I want to worship your butt.

Only if you're a tranny.

 

[Mangoose]

it's a bit unnerving.

Lol at being unnerved on the Codex though.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

how about I concede my fists to your face


...man, I miss Excidium already.

 

[Grunker]

it's a bit unnerving.

Lol at being unnerved on the Codex though.

You weren't unnerved when you found out Prosper was real?

 

[tyrannosaurus rex]

Your idea of "turbo computers" is a joke. I bought mine in 2010, run D:OS on it with all settings maxed, it rarely goes below 60 fps.

No, no it's not. You failed to understand why I used a silly term like ''turbo'' to describe rabid consumerism pushing you into getting new hardware every 4 years. This laptop was up to standard 4 years ago and I play wasteland 2, will play Project Eternity, and play good rpgs on it just fine.

People need to stop blaming bad hardware on magical "optimization". Blizzard are not an industry standard--they go out of their way to design their games to work on very old computers, and their games tend to suffer a certain degree for it. It's fine to play new games on a cheap computer you bought 5 years ago, but you shouldn't expect them to run well.

No that just means they're smart. There's more than enough who play on low end systems, or old computer's that they're diligent enough to keep more than 5 years. As far as I know the games that get praised here do not require more than a Pentium 2. But then we have 500 pages Mass Effect and League of Legend threads, you might have a counter argument here.

It's idiotic to make the game look ugly on old systems if it's only to introduce a few modern graphical gimmicks.

or he is just plain retard, it happens.

Spoiler

You're confusing this place with 9gag/4chan or whatever it is kids browse these days for cheap laughs.

 

[Internet]

I personally don't find anything wrong with the writing in DOS, but I really don't value writing in video games much or at all (if I want to read something, I'll just re-read a book from Eco/Bulgakov/any author I appreciate).
On the other hand I was never able to play Planescape Torment past the first town. Sure, the writing in that game is good by video games standards and not bad overall (plus the graphics are gorgeous), but the crappy everything else made me unable to play that "game".
To each his own, I suppose.

 

[Athelas]

I don't think the people unimpressed with the writing are demanding the combat to be bad just because another well-written game had bad combat. It's a bizarre strawman that doesn't even remotely make sense.