Diablo - 20 years later

[Hobo Elf]

To be honest I wouldn't say Diablo 1 is really that much of a item farming game in the first place and many people didn't play it as such. Several of the "loot whore" items are single player only and not obtainable online except via hacks as you get them as quest rewards or drops from bosses with a 100% chance, and there are some unique items what we'd call cursed items i.e they are good but have some horrible negative side effects, which was dumped completely by Diablo 2. The game wasn't balanced in a way that you'd have to be decked out in the very best items to be viable. It wasn't until Diablo 2 when loot whoring became a real thing.

 

[typical user]

To be honest I wouldn't say Diablo 1 is really that much of a item farming game in the first place and many people didn't play it as such. Several of the "loot whore" items are single player only and not obtainable online except via hacks as you get them as quest rewards or drops from bosses with a 100% chance, and there are some unique items what we'd call cursed items i.e they are good but have some horrible negative side effects, which was dumped completely by Diablo 2. The game wasn't balanced in a way that you'd have to be decked out in the very best items to be viable. It wasn't until Diablo 2 when loot whoring became a real thing.

Oh yeah, Thinking Cap had 1/1 durability which means one hit in the head and it is gone, as destroyed items couldn't be repaired unlike in D2. But people found out how to increase it's durability and it was great for Mages and Sorcerers. They tried though to bring it into Diablo 2 under the ethereal mod but mercs weren't able to break them so every ethereal item was practiacally mercenary item. But Diablo 2 also had nice items like +Shapeshifting skilltree for Barbs or +Whirlwind which was used by Assassins. These skills have had disadvantages like inability to use ranged weapons or stunlocking character until whirlwind ends.

 

[octavius]

Oh yeah, Thinking Cap had 1/1 durability which means one hit in the head and it is gone, as destroyed items couldn't be repaired unlike in D2. But people found out how to increase it's durability and it was great for Mages and Sorcerers.

That's funny; I just found the Thinking Cap in Diablo myself, playing a Sorceror.
I have left it in town for the time being, until I can get my paws on a Fortitude Potion.

 

[skyst]

get my paws on a Fortitude Potion.

 

[Malignant Manor]

Hellfire definitely encouraged hoarding.

 

[Cadmus]

I didn't like it then and I didn't properly understand the game concept. So you keep going down these samey cellars and dungeons deeper and deeper? That sounded so fucking boring.
It's boring to me now, too. I liked Diablo 2 because I got to go outside instead of being in a claustrophobic cramped cellar. I liked the better classes and spell effects. I never farmed or anything like that, I played those games strictly as normal singleplayer RPGs. I had never played a dungeon crawler before except maybe Stonekeep which bored me for the same reason and BaK which I had no idea wtf it was about since I didn't speak English.

Diablo 1 was really famous though I remember everyone talking about it and when D2 came out it was teh heaven according to some and I like it to this day.

Pure dungeon crawlers bore me. I suppose the atmosphere was good because that feeling turned me away from it.

 

[Jaesun]

Diablo was a lot of fun. Played and finished it many times.

I just did not care for Diablo 2 at all. I could never finish or even play it for long. It's like they sucked out all of what made the first game fun, and corporate suits and marketing departments designed the game (because it was so successful).

 

[Xathrodox86]

I've only finished Diablo 2 and didn't even bother with World of Warcraftesque-like Diablo 3. Looking back they were not exactly good games, but had superb music, which I'm still using during my PnP RPG sessions.

 

[Electryon]

Diablo was a lot of fun. Played and finished it many times.

I just did not care for Diablo 2 at all. I could never finish or even play it for long. It's like they sucked out all of what made the first game fun, and corporate suits and marketing departments designed the game (because it was so successful).

Diablo 1 remains an all-time great RPG because of it's atmosphere and suffocating soundtrack. It was perfectly executed. Diablo 2 took it to it's logical conclusion. There wasn't anything excessive about these games even though (especially in the case of 2) they had massive loot pools and customization. You can't say the same for nearly any other games in the genre that have come in it's wake (the only ones I even find remotely worthwhile are the Sacred and Dungeon Siege series). Say what you want about 2 introducing the skill tree to the genre, they did it first and they certainly did it best. I can hardly agree that Diablo 2 was a corporate sell-out of a game. It was nearly the exact same team doing exactly what they wanted to do to advance the genre. You can certainly make that your case for Diablo 3 however.

 

[abija]

D2 made multiplayer the primary focus, can't say it is the logical conclusion to D1. And it wasn't because of corporate suits or whatever, it was all on the devs. They even wanted to make D3 a MMO-lite.

 

[octavius]

The one thing I intensely dislike about D2 is that you can't save the game properly when playing single player. IIRC only your character is saved, but all loot not in inventory is lost and all maps are regenerated.
Which reminds me...is there a way to play D2 with save states?

 

[Azarkon]

Diablo's primary contributions were: 1) it made the basic idea behind roguelike games - randomly generated levels & loot - mainstream and 2) it was one of the first popular games to combine action game combat with CRPG character development. The latter paved the way for action RPGs in general, as at the time, the concept of having to actually physically dodge attacks in a CRPG was considered "innovative."

 

[Electryon]

D2 made multiplayer the primary focus, can't say it is the logical conclusion to D1. And it wasn't because of corporate suits or whatever, it was all on the devs. They even wanted to make D3 a MMO-lite.

Certain sections of the community made multiplayer the primary focus (if you are talking about PvP, if you mean cooperative then that's absolutely true). But it was still designed in most ways that matter to be a fluid single-player experience, though possibly only on the first two difficulty levels til later patches made it beatable on Hell by anyone.

The one thing I intensely dislike about D2 is that you can't save the game properly when playing single player. IIRC only your character is saved, but all loot not in inventory is lost and all maps are regenerated.
Which reminds me...is there a way to play D2 with save states?

The inventory and stash space in D2 is a compete joke. There isn't a save state (you have to go to unlocked waypoints and the monsters respawn), but there IS a mod you want, and I wouldn't play D2 in a modern setting without it. It's called PlugY. For one thing, it gives you unlimited personal and shared stash space for all the items you'd have to give up since you literally have no room for anything in your bag but town portal scrolls and charms once you reach a certain point in the original game. It also enables almost all the features that are only available on live realms like ladder-only runewords and world events, if you ever care to take it that far. Plus a bevy of other options, including related to how the maps respawn (don't know that there is any way to not respawn the monsters though, that's a core design element). There is no reason to play a solo game of Diablo 2 without PlugY, it's a fantastic mod that makes it a great single player experience.

 

[T. Reich]

...the concept of having to actually physically dodge attacks in a CRPG was considered "innovative."

No, it wasn't. Blobbers had their "two step dance" manual evasion routine from the get go, a few years before Diablo.

On the topic, Diablo had all its elements click together in an awesome way, which made it a great game. The fact that it got noticed AND that it came with an "RPG" tag, meant that people's (heavily waned by that time) interest in RPGs got reinvigorated. And less than a year later, Fallout came out.

 

[Electryon]

On the topic, Diablo had all its elements click together in an awesome way, which made it a great game. The fact that it got noticed AND that it came with an "RPG" tag, meant that people's (heavily waned by that time) interest in RPGs got reinvigorated. And less than a year later, Fallout came out

This is true....say what you will about Blizzard now (or in the past), but Diablo did in a very real sense "save" the genre from total obscurity.

 

[Korgoth of Barbaria]

Diablo released a few weeks before my 12th birthday and my father brought me to an electronics store, Comp USA at the time, I believe, to make the purchase. He is a flawed man, but thankfully negligent of computer game ratings along with mostly everything else. Big-demon-face box in hand, I was quickly dropped off at my aunt and uncle's place for a few hours. I installed Diablo onto their desktop, my 8 year old cousin beside me (who would go on to become obsessively addicted to Diablo 2 in a few years, you're welcome), and we spent the next handful of hours taking turns sending a brave fighting man against legions of terrifying hell spawn and undead.

In retrospect, Diablo may have done more harm to the CRPG genre than good, though Blizzard's work with Diablo and Warcraft (with FF7 right around the corner) made fantasy gaming a highly profitable business and definitely brought it into the mainstream. Hard to say what would have happened if not for Diablo and I don't really care. For such a simple game, at 12 years old it was one hell of a good time.

Why do you think Diablo did more harm than good to the CRPG genre?

 

[Azarkon]

...the concept of having to actually physically dodge attacks in a CRPG was considered "innovative."

No, it wasn't. Blobbers had their "two step dance" manual evasion routine from the get go, a few years before Diablo.

On the topic, Diablo had all its elements click together in an awesome way, which made it a great game. The fact that it got noticed AND that it came with an "RPG" tag, meant that people's (heavily waned by that time) interest in RPGs got reinvigorated. And less than a year later, Fallout came out.

It was tongue in cheek. Blizzard is known for taking other games' ideas and getting credit for them.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

I never understood the appeal of hack'n'slashes, it never clicked with me, even after a thousand clicks. My sister, whose opinion I respect, says that it's because I don't like to farm.

 

[Electryon]

...the concept of having to actually physically dodge attacks in a CRPG was considered "innovative."

No, it wasn't. Blobbers had their "two step dance" manual evasion routine from the get go, a few years before Diablo.

On the topic, Diablo had all its elements click together in an awesome way, which made it a great game. The fact that it got noticed AND that it came with an "RPG" tag, meant that people's (heavily waned by that time) interest in RPGs got reinvigorated. And less than a year later, Fallout came out.

It was tongue in cheek. Blizzard is known for taking other games' ideas and getting credit for them.

They are, but they have always wrapped them up in a tighter package, ESPECIALLY from a control and gameplay perspective. Their games have always performed as smooth as butter. So yeah, Warcraft 1 and 2 was a hodgepodge of Dune 2 and Warhammer, but you can't tell me they don't feel better to play than those contemporaries. For something that was essentially done on a whim (as they originally designed Diablo to be turn-based) it's remarkable how responsive it is. Say what you want about it, but you can't even compare how much better it feels to just control your character from a gameplay perspective in WoW to almost any other MMO out there.

So yeah, Blizzard deserves no credit for any original ideas (other than real-time action combat in the first Diablo), but it's hard to argue with the execution of their product from a technical gameplay perspective. They do it better than anyone.

 

[taxalot]

Can one still play Diablo 1 online on Battle.Net ?

 

[Electryon]

Can one still play Diablo 1 online on Battle.Net ?

Not that I know of. The best way to play classic Diablo nowadays is the Belzebub mod. It makes it playable without any hiccups on modern operating systems, restored unfinished content in the game files, added 3 classes (though they are really just minor variations on the 3 core classes and not worth much attention). Adds waypoints, the ability to run in town, a stash and a gambler. It's a mixed bag, but the unfinished business aspect and the modern optimization makes it the best current way to enjoy the game without alot of messing around, you just need to have a Diablo CD (ahem) mounted on your computer. They are working on a multiplayer version. In fact from what I can tell that's the primary focus at this time, it may actually be functional by now, but since I have no interest in the online element I haven't bothered. Worth looking into though:

http://diablo1.ovh.org/hd/

 

[Lacrymas]

This is what Blizzard do best - incredibly smooth and responsive gameplay. That's about the extent of modern Blizzard's achievements. Diablo's atmosphere was and still is incredible, going deeper down while the architecture gets more twisted and demonic is a great tension builder.

 

[vonAchdorf]

I never understood the appeal of hack'n'slashes, it never clicked with me, even after a thousand clicks. My sister, whose opinion I respect, says that it's because I don't like to farm.

This. I really like the atmosphere of D1, but the click to kill genre never clicked with me. I start enthusiastically, play them for an evening and then drop them. I finished U8 though.

 

[Damned Registrations]

This is what Blizzard do best - incredibly smooth and responsive gameplay. That's about the extent of modern Blizzard's achievements. Diablo's atmosphere was and still is incredible, going deeper down while the architecture gets more twisted and demonic is a great tension builder.

It helps that Diablo built on real themes/symbols like crosses and pentagrams, the trappings of a church/mausoleum/etc. The sequels went off into gibberish territory with shit like a giant insect nest, various animal people, lots of completely not spooky outdoor areas, and way way too many NPCs instead of a tight group of clearly tortured people without a shred of hope. Hard to feel the weight of hell when some dude is outright gleeful because you found a fucking trinket for his collection.

 

[Lacrymas]

It helps that Diablo built on real themes/symbols like crosses and pentagrams, the trappings of a church/mausoleum/etc. The sequels went off into gibberish territory with shit like a giant insect nest, various animal people, lots of completely not spooky outdoor areas, and way way too many NPCs instead of a tight group of clearly tortured people without a shred of hope. Hard to feel the weight of hell when some dude is outright gleeful because you found a fucking trinket for his collection.

While the spookiness in D2 is downplayed somewhat, it still has its charms. Marius being a mirror for the *mindset of the player* for example. Otherwise yes, D2 goes bonkers from act 2 onward. Blizzard's games have this tendency of dropping the more tense elements with each new installment. Diablo is way more dark and brooding than 2, Diablo 3 is a joke; Starcraft 1's washed out colors and designs are far superior to Starcraft 2's non-existent atmosphere; Warcraft is somewhat of an exception, although 1 and 2 are more gory and visceral than 3 and later WoW. Blizzard frustrate me because I hate wasted potential and their downward spiral was painful to watch. Their mainstreamization was incomprehensible to me, they already had a huge fan base, so watering everything down felt like a knife in the gut.