Devil May Cry 5

[Silverfish]

"The game offers you a great variety of ways to tackle combat and that's not fun".

Now we're getting somewhere. You can have the deepest move pool ever, but if the enemies you're fighting can't keep up and only have stat boosts to fall back on, the combat sucks because it's ultimately one-sided. DMC1 is a great game because both Dante and the enemies have some variety. The Itsuno games are a joke because Dante is probably the most elaborate action game character yet devised, but he's fighting dudes who are about as simplistic as enemies in the Souls games. It's like being a school bully who beats up special needs kids.

"The game is not good because I don't like its design philosophy!" - Not valid.

The game is bad because I don't like it.

 

[Lambach]

The Itsuno games are a joke because Dante is probably the most elaborate action game character yet devised, but he's fighting dudes who are about as simplistic as enemies in the Souls games. It's like being a school bully who beats up special needs kids.

Yeah well, if you make an active effort to ignore most of the game's content, you just might arrive at a completely nonsensical conclusion. How about.... not doing that?

 

[Silverfish]

I didn't ignore the game's content (in 3 and 4 mind you, I don't suffer from the levels of battered wife syndrome needed to purchase 5), I'm just unimpressed with what's on offer. My stance isn't one based on pure difficulty, but rather how interesting the combat encounters are.

 

[Lambach]

You're typically not supposed to be shitting your pants in excitement during the tutorial section (AKA first few difficulty settings).

 

[Silverfish]

You're typically not supposed to be shitting your pants in excitement during the tutorial section (AKA first few difficulty settings).

"The game isn't meant to be fun during your first two runs" doesn't exactly sell the game as being good. Moreover, it's beside the point (apparently there are no combo mad tutorials for reading comprehension). To clarify, I don't care about enemy stats or aggression when, even at their highest on DMD, their actual move pool is more shallow than marionettes on normal mode in DMC1. The fact that later games need to give the enemies massive stat buffs to make them even remotely engaging to fight just goes to show that these are baby games.

 

[Lambach]

"The game isn't meant to be fun during your first two runs" doesn't exactly sell the game as being good.

Was fun for me. I spent them practicing combos and triple S-ing every level. You chose to play it as a button masher instead of putting some effort and thought into it, and the results were very predictable.

even at their highest on DMD, their actual move pool is more shallow than marionettes on normal mode in DMC1.

And how exactly do you know this?

 

[Silverfish]

You chose to play it as a button masher instead of putting some effort and thought into it, and the results were very predictable.

In fact, I didn't play either 3 or 4 as a button masher. I was pretty well versed in the original game by the time the sequels came out and knew the lay of the land. "You must have played it wrong" is cope in the extreme.

And how exactly do you know this?

Firsthand experience (again, barring 5), message board discussion and youtube.

 

[Lambach]

In fact, I didn't play either 3 or 4 as a button masher. I was pretty well versed in the original game by the time the sequels came out and knew the lay of the land. "You must have played it wrong" is cope in the extreme.

4 I can maybe see, but if you're telling me you played 3 (the OG version) on higher difficulties and found encounters boring and uninteresting, then get the fuck outta here, man. Sell that bridge to someone else.

Firsthand experience (again, barring 5), message board discussion and youtube.

OK, so basically you have no idea what you're talking about, but are convinced you're an expert. Glad we cleared that up.

"Message boards", lul. Here, I can quote some random retards too.

 

[Silverfish]

but if you're telling me you played 3 (the OG version) on higher difficulties and found encounters boring and uninteresting, then get the fuck outta here, man.

I did and they are. 3 is difficult because you die a lot (which is fine by the way), but not engaging.

OK, so basically you have no idea what you're talking about, but are convinced you're an expert.

I must be an expert, because you've never managed to tell me where I'm mistaken and had to argue against points I didn't make.

 

[Lambach]

I must be an expert, because you've never managed to tell me where I'm mistaken and had to argue against points I didn't make.

You're mistaken because enemies have significantly more complex mechanics to them than what you're giving them credit for. Not sure how I can make that more clear.

Refer to the screenshot I posted. Yes, I know, R*ddit, boo boo, cringe, ew, disgusting. But as it happens, what this guy wrote contains quite a bit of accurate info.

Maybe you're getting the wrong impression because all of your knowledge comes from YT clips. But what you have to understand is that people posting DMC 5 clips on YT are the super freaks, the top 0.001% of players who are so good they make even DMD look like Dante is just bullying a bunch of crippled toddlers because they spent several trillion hours mastering the game. Enemies don't get to show off what they have because those autistic fucks with superhuman reflexes stun-lock them before they can blink (demonstrating their mastery of the game). It's not going to be like that for you, not even close.

I did and they are. 3 is difficult because you die a lot (which is fine by the way), but not engaging. .

I'm kinda starting to think you're just in the wrong place, because if 3 is not engaging for you, this genre just might not be your thing.

 

[Multidirectional]

The style system is certainly not optional if you want to beat DMD, as being stylish recharges your Devil Trigger a lot faster and you definitely need it on that difficulty. It's just that keeping up that S rank seems significantly harder with Dante than other two characters so I basically got owned when I reached first mission of his.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I think the main issue stems from the fact how much of a cake walk the games have become on normal difficulty

Easy for people that have played DMC3 before or have experience with these types of games

I saw a review from under the mayo guy and he was bitching about how easy the game was and how bored he was.

He also compared the lower difficulties alot to God of War 3, on the highest difficulty
Plus he made some salty comments about GoW being generally considered a pop-a-mole DMC rip-off by elitists of the genre

There is a reason casuals on the internet think Sekiro is a better game than DMC.

Who says this?
Even on /v/ barely any comparasion between DMC and Sekiro

Plus, everyone is like items are part of the game, while for DMC fans they might as well not exist. Bunch of retarded condescending decisions like free gold orbs etc.. makes DMC a casual as fuck experience.

Gold Orbs on Login are retarded, but the revive system makes more senseis better than itens - items were effectively "pay X to skip fight", with the revive system it's "pay X to keep figthing"

DMC is about surviving

Every mechanical aspect and narrative itself from the very first prove otherwise
Surviving is for those still learning how to play it properly
But Styling is ultimate goal

I think if Itsuno had the same uncompromising stance that Itagaki took with Ninja Gaiden, the games would have been better for it.

Please
The fact that Itagaki made NGII and fucking Devil's Third are sufficient to prove otherwise

 

[DJOGamer PT]

DMC1 is a great game because both Dante and the enemies have some variety. The Itsuno games are a joke because Dante is probably the most elaborate action game character yet devised, but he's fighting dudes who are about as simplistic as enemies in the Souls games.

Have you even played DMC5?
It has the best and most varied enemy design in the series.
Also you're fellating 1, but in 1 Dante also becomes like a bully beating tweps once you master him
Plus in 1 there's combos to deal with enemies that are so reliable and safe that they end up discouraging agressiveness and improsivation - which is further exacerbated by the end mission scoring systems being quite lenient

their actual move pool is more shallow than marionettes on normal mode in DMC1.

The Sins (basic fooder in 3) might be more linear than the Marionettes, but the Sins appear in different types which complement eachother, which end up making more engaging fights than most enemies in 1

I must be an expert, because you've never managed to tell me where I'm mistaken

How could he?
You just end up saying "no u" and move along

 

[Lambach]

The style system is certainly not optional if you want to beat DMD, as being stylish recharges your Devil Trigger a lot faster and you definitely need it on that difficulty. It's just that keeping up that S rank seems significantly harder with Dante than other two characters so I basically got owned when I reached first mission of his.

Don't remember what it's called exactly, but mastering that motorcycle weapon makes getting SSS fairly easy.

Only Vergil has an easier time of it, but he's OP as fuck anyway, so it doesn't count.

 

[Silverfish]

You're mistaken because enemies have significantly more complex mechanics to them than what you're giving them credit for.

Such as? For a guy who's been accused of not knowing what I'm talking about, at least I've got examples from my own experience, not someone's reddit post.

I'm kinda starting to think you're just in the wrong place, because if 3 is not engaging for you, this genre just might not be your thing.

Or, and this is admittedly a long shot, I like the genre, but not DMCs 3 and 4. I don't have the cases right in front of me, so I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure Ninja Gaiden, Shinobi and God of War didn't have big stickers on the front saying "Move along Itsuno haters, this is a Dante's Awakening appreciators neighborhood."

Have you even played DMC5?

I have far too much self respect.

You just end up saying "no u" and move along

I wouldn't if it didn't work.

 

[Lambach]

Such as? For a guy who's been accused of not knowing what I'm talking about, at least I've got examples from my own experience, not someone's reddit post.

Your own experience?

Nigger, you're literally bragging about never having played the game in the first place. Just shut the fuck up and take your L with some dignity.

Y-hweh almighty, what a complete and utter clown. The actual poster-child for Dunning-Kruger right here.

 

[Multidirectional]

Only Vergil has an easier time of it, but he's OP as fuck anyway, so it doesn't count.

Oh fuck you reminded me, I was gonna do Vergil SOS run as I still barely even tried him. But then got butthurt about being stuck with Dante on his first DMD mission and quit. I guess I will play him sometime soon then to get my DMC fix.

 

[Silverfish]

Your own experience?

Yep.

One of DMC1's bosses alternates between two forms, one of which can absorb Dante into another realm, forcing you to fight one of the previous bosses to escape, which in turn damages the primary boss. One of DMC4's bosses is a window.

In DMC3, the most basic, cannon fodder enemies all have one or at most two attacks they can throw out. They're even color coded for your convenience (black = overhead slash, red = lunging slash, brown = short range projectile and white = teleport to your location, followed by overhead slash). The same basic, putty patroller enemies in the first game have a 1-3 hit combo which they may or may not finish out to fuck with your timing, a grab, a spinning gap closer, the ability to block with a follow-up punish, an AOE scream that disables Dante for a couple of seconds and two kinds of ranged attacks (either throwing their melee weapons for meager damage, but good range or a shotgun blast that's the inverse and also has knockdown depending on range). Granted, they are also color coded for your convenience, but only to the extant that red = more health.

You're welcome, by the way.

Nigger, you're literally bragging about never having played the game in the first place. Just shut the fuck up and take your L with some dignity.

"Please just stop. I don't have anything left in the tank" doesn't sound like I'm taking the L here. Still waiting on those examples.

Edit: Too many "by the ways". I'm getting sloppy arguing with the DMC5 set.

 

[Lambach]

"Please just stop. I don't have anything left in the tank" doesn't sound like I'm taking the L here. Still waiting on those examples.

Edit: Too many "by the ways". I'm getting sloppy arguing with the DMC5 set.

"I'm never gonna play the game, but you go ahead and write a doctoral thesis about the enemies in DMC 5 that I'm never going to read because I actually have an impressive IQ of 30"

Yeah, no, I got better shit to do than write a manual in pictures for a cripple who can't even get a solid grasp of Dante's moveset. Git gud, fegit. Or better yet, fuck off back to Cowaadooty.

 

[Silverfish]

"I'm never gonna play the game, but you go ahead and write a doctoral thesis about the enemies in DMC 5 that I'm never going to read because I actually have an impressive IQ of 30"

I wanted examples from DMC 3 or 4 actually, but I accept your surrender.

Or better yet, fuck off back to Cowaadooty.

"I bet you like a game where the player and enemies are equally lethal because you specifically asked for that." Guilty as charged. Maybe one day, Itsuno will work his way up to Infinity Ward's level.

 

[Lambach]

"I bet you like a game where the player and enemies are equally lethal because you specifically asked for that." Guilty as charged. Maybe one day, Itsuno will work his way up to Infinity Ward's level.

Or maybe one day, you'll actually use one of the several million mechanics the game keeps shoving in your face instead of just spamming the basic attack button like a heroin-addled toddler with Down syndrome.

"I am deliberately doing everything I possibly can to not have fun in this game, WHY AM I NOT HAVING FUN???!!!" - you

Truly, a mystery for the ages, one worthy of your average 13-year-old Cowadooty Xbox Live player.

 

[Silverfish]

Or maybe one day, you'll actually use one of the several million mechanics the game keeps shoving in your face instead of just spamming the basic attack button like a heroin-addled toddler with Down syndrome.

I've never done this and my arguments didn't spring from this sort of misunderstanding. That you got "I only want to use one button" out of "I wish enemies were as complex as Dante" speaks volumes about the state of the franchise and the fanbase. You probably couldn't tell me what's wrong with Call of Duty either other than teenagers liked it a decade ago.

 

[Lambach]

I've never done this and my arguments didn't spring from this sort of misunderstanding.

No, you're right, I'm sorry. That really wasn't the crux of your argument.

In fact, your actual argument is several orders of magnitude worse.

"I never played the game, but let me tell you all about it"

Congratulations, you just successfully combined being retarded with being an obnoxious ass-clown at the same time. Impressive.

That you got "I only want to use one button" out of "I wish enemies were as complex as Dante"

Motherfucker, WHERE does this happen in games in this genre? WHERE do you have common mobs that are equally complex as your main character? Fucking WHERE? DMC 1? Get absolutely fucked in the ass, that's not even remotely close to being true.

I know you haven't played DMC 5 for sure, but now I'm starting to strongly suspect you never played any other game in this genre in general and you're lying through your teeth about everything you say.

You probably couldn't tell me what's wrong with Call of Duty either other than teenagers liked it a decade ago.

DMC is too shallow, but "wHAt iS WroNG wiTh COWAADUTY :{{{{{{ "

You are one of the most entertaining dumbfuck clowns I've encountered in quite a while. Everything you say is so retarded it's actually hilarious.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

You just end up saying "no u" and move along

I wouldn't if it didn't work.

So you admit you're arguing in bad faith and ignoring sensible opposing arguments

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Only Vergil has an easier time of it, but he's OP as fuck anyway, so it doesn't count.

That's because he's designed for Legendary Dark Knight mode - which is still infuriating why Crapcom didn't include it for PC
That and Co-Op for Bloody Palace, which is also baffling considering they went to the trouble of introducing co-op for the Switch release of DMC3 a year later

Oh fuck you reminded me, I was gonna do Vergil SOS run as I still barely even tried him.

If you do just remember that Concentration is the key to unlock Vergil's potential - not only do his attacks increase in power, they get bigger hitboxes, faster recovery animations (as well as near instant wind-ups), but he also gets some new moves.