Game News Colony Ship Released

[AdolfSatan]

As is usual for pretty much every combat-heavy RPG?

BTW, something I forgot to mention, but kudos to whomever the programmers in the team are, the game actually runs in my shitrig and loading times are instantaneous, a precious commodity nowadays.

 

[Grotesque]

What's the logic

They want you to have someone with weaknesses instead of making a generalist, because FlaWeD cHArAcTerS aRe iNterEstInG

I understand that those feats are powerful and that each companion having them will break the game but come on!
At least allow my character to have them or one of them!?

I just got a companion after allying with a faction and that companion has a heroic feat and kicks ass left and right while my char is struggling after squeezing every ounce of XP from the game.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Screw point buy, bring back rolling for stats.

 

[Pink Eye]

Screw point buy, bring back rolling for stats.

It's not point buy. You're not buying anything at character creation, the cost from one stat to another is always 1. You're just assigning stats.

 

[Hellraiser]

My big brain character LV4 CHA 10 INT 10 and 5 for all others attributes and basicly 0 weapon skills (bladed 2 lul) is utterly useless in battles.
Anyone got ideas to make him a bit more useful ?

Melee with no combat stats is a bad idea, you're better off with some low AP-use ranged weapon like pistols or shotguns (both have 4 AP per regular shot sub-classes) for aimed shots to cripple shit, I think pistols are probably better due to those with better ammo capacity being available sooner (less reloading down time, more shootan). Although with 13 AP at 5 DEX you might as well just go for long range rifles and be the world's crappiest sniper using bullseye (and maybe take the charger feat at some point to reposition/kite more easily), but I'm not sure if you will be gaining many skill points in combat that way (how does the combat skill gain even work? Is it per shot hit or per AP spent or damage inflicted or what?).

Tag a weapon skill using the educated feat ASAP or alternatively start with a weapon skill tagged early on and tag something like lockpicking or similar with educated when you level up. Pick a skill where an extra skill point at start without tagging will be enough until you hit level 2 or 3, and where the checks are mostly outside of dialogue so that you can do them whenever rather than get worse quest outcome. Lockpicking in my experience would be one, but electronics and computers might also work.

Also regarding that stat min-maxing, 5 is not a good number for CON or STR. Honestly I would get 6 CON for a 3rd implant (this is essentially a stat point that pays for itself) and dump STR to 4, or dump both STR and CON to 4, putting the extra 2 points into either perception or dexterity. Then get the perception+dexterity implants easily found in act 1. STR is a dump stat on anyone not going for some melee gladiator tank build, the armor penalty/lack of DR can be mitigated with smoke grenades, sniping from range/cover and gadgets.

With 4 STR I only encountered 2 checks where it was a problem, one of which is only an issue if you want to use an easier router with your character in one specific very optional "diplomacy fail state" sneaking section (which anyway triggers combat upon detection and you can just brute force) in act 1 mercy's fort assasination (which a party member can anyway do for you) and the other is a chest that has a combined party(!) STR check with meh loot inside (I guess it might be considered good by very early game standards).

 

[Pink Eye]

how does the combat skill gain even work?

Basically, each enemy has a finite amount of combat SP, 40, that they can provide upon death. Which then gets split towards weapon and defense SP. For defense it gets further split based on what your character does throughout the encounter. Eat all the damage you get the defense SP in armor handling. Dodge some attacks but eat the damage, you get the defense SP evenly split towards both Evasion/Armor Handling. Dodge all the attacks it is then granted to evasion. You can't grind it but you can maximize what gets what. One thing though is that if you kill the enemy before they can hit you then all that potential defense SP goes to critical strike instead. Also, if you have party members then that original 40 combat SP that an enemy can give is split between members. Temporary allies on the other hand don't leech any of the experience you get from combats though.

 

[normie]

what a fucked up system

 

[raeven]

So... I can't get the heroic feats (unlocked by reaching 10 in stats) while playing the game?

This game is encouraging min maxing right from the start.

What's the logic of this shit?

The logic is that you bought an RPG not made by Bethesda, which means you have to make choices.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Screw point buy, bring back rolling for stats.

It's not point buy. You're not buying anything at character creation, the cost from one stat to another is always 1. You're just assigning stats.

Way to miss the point.

 

[Pink Eye]

Way to miss the point.

I rolled low stats and had to spend my points wisely. I decided yours was too stupid to purchase for my character's sheet.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

what a fucked up system

Modern devs are obsessed with balance and preventing players from getting too strong. I call this sort of design 'curated XP' and consider it no better than level scaling, since both obviate your choices in the long run. Whether the game limits your level or adjusts enemies to you level, the end result is the same.

 

[normie]

iron tower could take some lessons from martial art cultivation rpgs
IM CUUULTIVATING

now that's good fun

 

[Grotesque]

So... I can't get the heroic feats (unlocked by reaching 10 in stats) while playing the game?

This game is encouraging min maxing right from the start.

What's the logic of this shit?

The logic is that you bought an RPG not made by Bethesda, which means you have to make choices.

what that has anything to do with what I said?

 

[GloomFrost]

So... I can't get the heroic feats (unlocked by reaching 10 in stats) while playing the game?

This game is encouraging min maxing right from the start.

What's the logic of this shit?

The logic is that you bought an RPG not made by Bethesda, which means you have to make choices.

what that has anything to do with what I said?

Careful now. You dare question the greatness of this masterpiece. The pinnacle of RPG genre. Don't ever make comments about none existent balance or underwhelming writing or stupid game mechanics or rushed last quarter of the game etc. If you are unhappy about even the slightest, tiniest detail of this RPG phenomenon or dare mention that some games did some things better than you only deserve to play Bethesda games. This is it, no other options for you boy.

 

[Lord Kane]

I am supposed to pay how much?
Jesus.

 

[Hellraiser]

what a fucked up system

Modern devs are obsessed with balance and preventing players from getting too strong. I call this sort of design 'curated XP' and consider it no better than level scaling, since both obviate your choices in the long run. Whether the game limits your level or adjusts enemies to you level, the end result is the same.

This just sounds like sawyerism to me.



EDIT: Although I don't agree with this applying in the particular context of I assume the combat skill point gain distribution in Colony Ship, if that was what normie was commenting on. What Colony Ship has in that area is more the result of trying to implement armor and evasion skills in a level-by-use framework, and thus a consequence of the decision to go with level-by-use and a design compromise, rather than a "there must be balance" thing.

 

[Grotesque]

So... I can't get the heroic feats (unlocked by reaching 10 in stats) while playing the game?

This game is encouraging min maxing right from the start.

What's the logic of this shit?

The logic is that you bought an RPG not made by Bethesda, which means you have to make choices.

what that has anything to do with what I said?

^seeing snobs not making a counterpoint but rating my question with facepalm is always... stunning!



so where are the tough choices in this game?

I am level 6 and if you play a particular archetype class, there are no tough choices to be made leveling up because there are not enough feats that expand a particular play-style or that bring another layer of sophistication to that "class"/playstyle.

The only "tough" choice you have to make in the game is in which order you will always get the same feats because it would be nonsensical otherwise not to do so and pretty soon you run out of the optimal feats and then choose to take filler feats that you don't particularly need.

And this is a game that punishes you hard if you are not super-specialized which is not a bad thing but....

GTFO with this "tough choices" bullshit.


I like the game, it has its charm, I like that there are not long ass dialogues, combat is intense, deadly and rewarding and the itemization and its mechanics really saves the day.

 

[raeven]

So... I can't get the heroic feats (unlocked by reaching 10 in stats) while playing the game?

This game is encouraging min maxing right from the start.

What's the logic of this shit?

The logic is that you bought an RPG not made by Bethesda, which means you have to make choices.

what that has anything to do with what I said?

View attachment 43604
^seeing snobs not making a counterpoint but rating my question with facepalm is always... stunning!



so where are the tough choices in this game?

I am level 6 and if you play a particular archetype class, there are no tough choices to be made leveling up because there are not enough feats that expand a particular play-style or that bring another layer of sophistication to that "class"/playstyle.

The only "tough" choice you have to make in the game is in which order you will always get the same feats because it would be nonsensical otherwise not to do so and pretty soon you run out of the optimal feats and then choose to take filler feats that you don't particularly need.

And this is a game that punishes you hard if you are not super-specialized which is not a bad thing but....

GTFO with this "tough choices" bullshit.


I like the game, it has its charm, I like that there are not long ass dialogues, combat is intense, deadly and rewarding and the itemization and its mechanics really saves the day.

Your basic argument is that there are certain specialized feats that you'll never be able to get unless you heavily invest in their related stats from the beginning. That's an argument against specialization in a role-playing game. That's how my statement connects to yours, in a more verbose way. So yeah, I'm saying that this is not a Bethesda style RPG and you should not expect it to be otherwise. It's an RPG more in the vein of the one your avatar is from.

 

[Shaki]

I really dislike the leveling system in this one, AOD was much better. I'm now pretty deep on 2nd playthrough, and while on first one I focused purely on talking so it didn't annoy me that much, now after playing with combat oriented char, it really started bothering me that the game is designed to punish roleplaying your character and push only one extremely specific way each archetype should be going.

If your PC is built for combat, you pretty much have to go murderhobo, and get in every fight whether it logically benefits you and makes sense for your character or not, because the game actively punishes you for avoiding combat, by awarding XP for non combat skills that will be completely useless, since if you didn't invest in them in char creation, you're not going to pass any important checks anyway.

I suspect the reason why we have level-by-using thingy in this game, is purely because Vince was butthurt about people gaming the system and figuring out how to play hybrid characters, by saving up some skillpoints and using them only when they needed to pass a specific check, allowing for exploring much more content in one playthrough that was intended. So the new system is successful, as it's supposed to be doing exactly what it does - funneling players into extremely specific playthroughs.
It's really annoying tho, feels like the only real decision is made at the beginning of the game, then you're just going through one of the pre-approved routes, pure spectator to the show. Well, at least writing is still good, even if the setting is more boring than AOD, so even being heavily railroaded, it's still an enjoyable experience compared to AAA RPGs. But I still hold the opinion I had after my first playthrough, AOD is simply a superior game in nearly every aspect other than graphics.

 

[Whisper]

This is decline game with cut content.

Endgame was clearly rushed and had passed a lot of cuts. Mastery levels (skills from 10 to 12) were cut.
Defencive skills were cut or most of unique builds were cut.
There is no Block skill, Evade is now secondary - almost useless skill. "Smart" players just roll same DR stacking builds because stacking armor is the Optimal Choice.

 

[Whisper]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/648410/discussions/0/3131668199920310639/

Vince:
"10 character levels, 10 skill levels (plus 2 mastery levels). I know that many players reached skill levels 8-9, but we'll slow it down."

 

[lukaszek]

Vince was butthurt about people gaming the system and figuring out how to play hybrid characters, by saving up some skillpoints and using them only when they needed to pass a specific check, allowing for exploring much more content in one playthrough that was intended. So the new system is successful, as it's supposed to be doing exactly what it does - funneling players into extremely specific playthroughs.

Mastermind Pistolero Educated Lone Wolf is nearing endgame. Able to handle most combats and most skill checks, though only just. It seems to be Computer and Electronics are the best to tag, whereas many of the others you can keep up more organically.

When, if at all, did you hit level 10? Also did you get the neural uplink early for the bonus +10% experience from 11 INT? Wondering if that bonus feat at level 10 isn't too late. I barely hit level 8 with mastermind and I'm very close to the end, but that's with two party members and not getting a neural jack at all.

Which encounters/quests did you choose to completely avoid due to being impossible?

I'm currently about to finish some loose ends, and I'm just a bit short, actually - 10/8/9 Science, 8/7/8 Stealth, for example. However, I made some suboptimal choices in my tagging (I would go Comp/Elec/Lockpick, whereas I went Crit/Biotech/Streetwise), I passed on the datajack to remain at 10 INT, and I'm sure there's some bits of XP I missed out on (but can you even get to Level 11?). So somebody who optimises further may just go over that final hump - I would say that Comp/Elec/Lockpick are really the only ones worth getting to 10, no?

I was able to do a fair bit. Finished the arena, the Protectorate Elevator, the First Law of Robotics fight, the bounties, the Yellow Hydroponics fights. I stealthed the Landing Bay and the Fuel Cell out of personal preference and didn't try the fights. I'm currently debating whether to bother with Ol' Bub - I might be able to grind it out but I just don't like the psionic fights in the game. Red Hydroponics optional fight I may also skip.

I also tried going Reaction Pistolero this time, but wonder if Rifler may fare better, and tagging Armour to get a headstart on gearing up. Not tagging armour + 4 STR + Reaction build meant you just don't take enough hits to level up armour very fast, though I proritised it in the skill tokens and got it up to 6.

 

[Hellraiser]

I really dislike the leveling system in this one, AOD was much better. I'm now pretty deep on 2nd playthrough, and while on first one I focused purely on talking so it didn't annoy me that much, now after playing with combat oriented char, it really started bothering me that the game is designed to punish roleplaying your character and push only one extremely specific way each archetype should be going.

I have to agree with this one, these kind of systems have too many trappings, although at least CS doesn't have crafting where you need to make 100 daggers or some shit to level it up.

For my second playthrough I made a streetwise stealthy assassin type, taking "Dodge This!" for that 2x critical strike skill gain rate. The streetwise/talker part kind of works with the stealth, I somehow managed to hit Streetwise level 7 in act 1 already without skipping any stealth sections, only skipped some regular combat and I am still left with a few Pit quests to do. But the stealthy assasin part hit some rather hard early walls.

Early on most stealth encounters seem to be designed/balanced around either just sneaking past or being able to kill one guy as an opener to actual combat. I get that this is a realistic take for a "low level" character who shouldn't be an uber ninja Adam Jensen/Solid Snake hybrid taking out whole rooms of goons from the shadows. But odds are your character goes down after his first turn in the ensuing combat due to being gangraped by the remaining enemies, while far from cover and party members, and while wearing suboptimal armor due to sneaking penalties on better DR one.

That and the character just makes too much unavoidable noise anyway, which also limits the approach paths, and you can't use distractions to lure single enemies away, since you have far too little critical strike to kill alerted enemies, while trying to level it up in the first place. There's so much feedback loop shit in it that you really need to cheese it and/or metagame to be able to kill more than one guy, or even to just win the fights that start after you backstab one guy and get those crumbs of early critical strike sp.

And if one only does sneaking until it is sufficiently leveled before attempting to stealth murder everything, when and how much actual critical strike sp I can get from remaining takedown opportunities before the game ends? It's not even just sneaking skill alone that you need but also character levels, because almost all of the stealth feats feel like they are mandatory if you want to do stealth kills without getting detected and without relying on the cloaking gadget for everything. And this is before one even considers that stealth encounters also have a sneak vs takedown sp distribution split rather than two seperate reward pools. Or that some early sneaking is against creatures which can't be stealth-killed, so you have no critical strike leveling opportunity in those.

Beelining to the cloaking gadget and cheesing takedowns with it is pretty much mandatory if you want to at all level up critical strike early on.

 

[Tigranes]

I suspect the reason why we have level-by-using thingy in this game, is purely because Vince was butthurt about people gaming the system and figuring out how to play hybrid characters, by saving up some skillpoints and using them only when they needed to pass a specific check, allowing for exploring much more content in one playthrough that was intended. So the new system is successful, as it's supposed to be doing exactly what it does - funneling players into extremely specific playthroughs.

I don't know if that was VD's intention, but I would say it's easier to pass majority of checks in CS.

This isn't entirely down to the party system either. (After all, skill gain is not tied to XP, and whether solo or party, one person ends up doing all checks for X skill anyway.) One might argue that Mastermind is the problem, but you can get pretty far with a decent INT + Skill Monkey.

I can't say for sure, but I'm wondering if CS is simply more generous in giving you opportunities to level and meet the key thresholds. But I can't substantiate that without some detailed comparison.

Early on most stealth encounters seem to be designed/balanced around either just sneaking past or being able to kill one guy as an opener to actual combat. I get that this is a realistic take for a "low level" character who shouldn't be an uber ninja Adam Jensen/Solid Snake hybrid taking out whole rooms of goons from the shadows. But odds are your character goes down after his first turn in the ensuing combat due to being gangraped by the remaining enemies, while far from cover and party members, and while wearing suboptimal armor due to sneaking penalties on better DR one.

That and the character just makes too much unavoidable noise anyway, which also limits the approach paths, and you can't use distractions to lure single enemies away, since you have far too little critical strike to kill alerted enemies, while trying to level it up in the first place. There's so much feedback loop shit in it that you really need to cheese it and/or metagame to be able to kill more than one guy, or even to just win the fights that start after you backstab one guy and get those crumbs of early critical strike sp.

And if one only does sneaking until it is sufficiently leveled before attempting to stealth murder everything, when and how much actual critical strike sp I can get from remaining takedown opportunities before the game ends? It's not even just sneaking skill alone that you need but also character levels, because almost all of the stealth feats feel like they are mandatory if you want to do stealth kills without getting detected and without relying on the cloaking gadget for everything. And this is before one even considers that stealth encounters also have a sneak vs takedown sp distribution split rather than two seperate reward pools. Or that some early sneaking is against creatures which can't be stealth-killed, so you have no critical strike leveling opportunity in those.

Beelining to the cloaking gadget and cheesing takedowns with it is pretty much mandatory if you want to at all level up critical strike early on.

An invested sneaker can do a lot early game in my experience. Let's say a good DEX character with one sneak feat (Prowler probably) who regularly uses Sneak options to level it up. In the Hank fight you can take out the duo by the wall for 3 out of 4 combatants, instead of just 2 (might also require Second Wind or Cloaking Device? I forget the exact threshold). Or the Mercy fort - you're either just killing one/two dudes, or you're killing everyone including Mercy until only the duo in the main room remains.

Sneak investment (let's say, Prowler + Tunnel Runner) also makes it possible to do things like wipe out the entire Black Hand fort, and later the entire Protectorate building thing, loot & exit the Brotherhood kingpin room without a fight, and kill Riggs & his crew except for again the duo.

If you're saying that sneak is useless without the feats, I think you can just about sneak important things like the Eye and various high-tier loot rooms without any sneak feats, though maybe not if you always pass up sneak kill missions.

 

[Jaedar]

Or the Mercy fort - you're either just killing one/two dudes, or you're killing everyone including Mercy until only the duo in the main room remains.

With a cloaking device you can also kill one of the duo.

also makes it possible to do things like wipe out the entire Black Hand fort

This is dubiously useful, except for the fact that it gives you crit/sneak exp. The loot is very mediocre as I recall.

I like your high int lone wolf. I am currently considering doing a mastermind, master trader, lone wolf run. I'm hoping the +2 initial disposition will let me win all speech encounters without further investment into speech stats.

If you're saying that sneak is useless without the feats, I think you can just about sneak important things like the Eye and various high-tier loot rooms without any sneak feats, though maybe not if you always pass up sneak kill missions.

I think feats will let you sneak more places with less sneak skill. If you want to assassinate loads of dudes the perk that reduces noise from that also seems mandatory.