Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear Pre-Release Thread

[aVENGER]

Interesting - Alan Miranda of Ossian Studios produced the Collector's Edition box. Hopefully they hire him to do some quest design in their next game too.

Alan Miranda was one of the producers on Throne of Bhaal back at Bioware.

He is also a producer on Siege of Dragonspear. Alan is involved in much more than just the Collector's Edition.

 

[Kem0sabe]

That UI remains as horrible as ever. Such lack of taste is astounding.

 

[Volrath]

A bunch of glorified modders are going to make a better game then Pillows.

Obsidian should just fucking die already.

 

[Ninjerk]

Is there a precedent for an unlimited weapon proc like that in AD&D?

 

[Nihiliste]

I would be a lot more interested in what Beamdog was doing if they managed to rescue James Ohlen from the purgatory of Bioware Austin. A BG3 with him as lead designer would have a fighting chance at being decent. To be fair though, I wouldn't want to leave a city like Austin to go back to Edmonton and work with subhumans like the social retards depicted in the recent Beamdog photos.

 

[SwiftCrack]

Minsc is literally the product of a Civ nerd that was a few weeks late to the D&D nerd party.

I don't see a problem with that.

 

[Infinitron]

More and more, one realizes that the Codex classics were organic products of their time in a way that contempory, custom-made Kickstarter products struggle to replicate. Bioware and their PnP AD&D background, Tim Cain and his underground skunkworks project that gradually developed into Fallout, Chris Avellone and all his ideas about subverting tropes that coalesced in Planescape: Torment. You can't throw four million dollars at somebody and go "Pretend it's 1999 again, that you've been playing tabletop RPGs for 6 years and brainstorming all sorts of wacky ideas, and that voice-acted console RPGs never happened! MAKE ME A CLASSIC!". These games simply aren't "of their time" anymore, and that organic experience and accumulation of good ideas will take time to develop again.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yeah, no, Obsidian has all that history and experience and background and what-not, but they choose to continue being sub-mediocre and their fanbots keep excusing each and everyone of their releases with the same stupid shit. It's the first game in this series! It's the first game in this system! It's the first game in this engine! Next one will certainly be much better! Like we're talking about a bunch of newfags who just started developing games and we must be understanding.
Except those newfags actually do better jobs.

 

[Cosmo]

More and more, one realizes that the Codex classics were organic products of their time in a way that contempory, custom-made Kickstarter products struggle to replicate. Bioware and their PnP AD&D background, Tim Cain and his underground skunkworks project that gradually developed into Fallout, Chris Avellone and all his ideas about subverting tropes. You can't throw four million dollars at somebody and go "Pretend it's 1999 again, that you've been playing tabletop RPGs for 6 years and brainstorming all sorts of wacky ideas, and that voice-acted console RPGs never happened! MAKE ME A CLASSIC!". These games simply aren't "of their time" anymore, and that organic experience and accumulation of good ideas will take time to develop again.

Add the fact that 4millions is a rather low amount for an ambitious RPG.

 

[Grotesque]

and accumulation of good ideas will take time to develop again.

That's exactly what Boyarsky is doing. Taking his time and brainstorming ideas with his muse while doing menial jobs for Blizzard that will not distract him from his true calling.

 

[Bubbles]

AoD managed to do fine as a pretty ambitious project, and I doubt it had a $4 million budget.

 

[Excidium II]

AoD managed to do fine as a pretty ambitious project, and I doubt it had a $4 million budget.

GL finding people with that dedication to work for years with no compensation before the thing starts being sold.

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, no, Obsidian has all that history and experience and background and what-not, but they choose to continue being sub-mediocre and their fanbots keep excusing each and everyone of their releases with the same stupid shit. It's the first game in this series! It's the first game in this system! It's the first game in this engine! Next one will certainly be much better! Like we're talking about a bunch of newfags who just started developing games and we must be understanding.
Except those newfags actually do better jobs.

I don't make that excuse just for Obsidian, but for all the developers who used Kickstarter to abruptly and unnaturally shift gears from mainstream to "oldschool" development. So inXile too. Not so much Larian, who seem to have made the shift more deliberately, as opposed to Kickstarter just falling on them from the sky one bright afternoon. I don't think they had the experience, not anymore.

As for BG:SoD, we'll see. I'm sure it'll have a few "this feels wrong" modernisms (like the large amount of dialogue that Kem0sabe doesn't like).

 

[Trodat]

I would be a lot more interested in what Beamdog was doing if they managed to rescue James Ohlen from the purgatory of Bioware Austin. A BG3 with him as lead designer would have a fighting chance at being decent. To be fair though, I wouldn't want to leave a city like Austin to go back to Edmonton and work with subhumans like the social retards depicted in the recent Beamdog photos.

James Ohlen strikes to me as the John Carmack of RPG's. Skilled guy who made his name years ago but replicating that is not really a dream for him anymore.

 

[Ninjerk]

I expect it to be pretty mediocre, tbh. Copper Dreams on the other hand...

 

[Nihiliste]

I would be a lot more interested in what Beamdog was doing if they managed to rescue James Ohlen from the purgatory of Bioware Austin. A BG3 with him as lead designer would have a fighting chance at being decent. To be fair though, I wouldn't want to leave a city like Austin to go back to Edmonton and work with subhumans like the social retards depicted in the recent Beamdog photos.

James Ohlen strikes to me as the John Carmack of RPG's. Skilled guy who made his name years ago but replicating that is not really a dream for him anymore.

I totally agree as evidenced by the fact that he was one of those chosen to go start the new studio, and lead their more experimental projects. But one would think that the disappointment of TOR, and the failure of his shadow realms project have to leave him dissatisfied.

 

[vonAchdorf]

More and more, one realizes that the Codex classics were organic products of their time in a way that contempory, custom-made Kickstarter products struggle to replicate. Bioware and their PnP AD&D background, Tim Cain and his underground skunkworks project that gradually developed into Fallout, Chris Avellone and all his ideas about subverting tropes that coalesced in Planescape: Torment. You can't throw four million dollars at somebody and go "Pretend it's 1999 again, that you've been playing tabletop RPGs for 6 years and brainstorming all sorts of wacky ideas, and that voice-acted console RPGs never happened! MAKE ME A CLASSIC!". These games simply aren't "of their time" anymore, and that organic experience and accumulation of good ideas will take time to develop again.

Sound a lot like what happens to bands. Though at least some of those musicians manage to, after years of copying themselves, make some later works which bring something new and "mature" to the table, which captures their audience in their current state of live, aka they grew with them.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I don't think they have the experience, not anymore.

I don't think they have the will anymore.
And honestly, I don't think there are that many players who actually want those games as they were then either. They say they do, but when you go deeper you notice that actually they want something completely different just with the same name. This sucks, that's shit, that's old, this is pixelated, this is too turn-based! OMG CAN I JUST HAVE SKYRIMG BUT CALL IT BALDURS GAET??!

Take this for example, from the latest hottest Familiar:

“The Story Mode difficulty level enables them to do just that. They can enjoy the epic tale without experiencing the frustration of replaying challenging combat encounters over and over again. We received a lot of positive feedback on that feature so it was only natural to include it in our future games as well. This mode will also be appearing in the Baldur’s Gate Enhanced Editions.”

No, these people don't actually want Baldur's Gate. And according to Beamdog, there's quite a lot of them.

 

[eremita]

I would be a lot more interested in what Beamdog was doing if they managed to rescue James Ohlen from the purgatory of Bioware Austin. A BG3 with him as lead designer would have a fighting chance at being decent. To be fair though, I wouldn't want to leave a city like Austin to go back to Edmonton and work with subhumans like the social retards depicted in the recent Beamdog photos.

James Ohlen strikes to me as the John Carmack of RPG's. Skilled guy who made his name years ago but replicating that is not really a dream for him anymore.

I totally agree as evidenced by the fact that he was one of those chosen to go start the new studio, and lead their more experimental projects. But one would think that the disappointment of TOR, and the failure of his shadow realms project have to leave him dissatisfied.

The problem is that the guy is not designing anymore... Since BG2, he's basically a manager who doesn't seem to be interested in getting his "hands dirty". I'm pretty sure his position in Bioware allows him to make a DnD project happen if he really wanted to do that...

His skills are wasted on TOR.

 

[Nazrim Eldrak]

I'm sure it'll have a few "this feels wrong" modernisms (like the large amount of dialogue that Kem0sabe doesn't like).

Funny, because I believe BG1 greatest weakness is the less amount of dialogue (A good fight without a exciting foreplay conversation is just too plain).

 

[Delterius]

exciting foreplay

BG1 could certainly use some more Romance.

 

[Nazrim Eldrak]

exciting foreplay

BG1 could certainly use some more Romance.

It could, but it is fine without it!

 

[agris]

More and more, one realizes that the Codex classics were organic products of their time in a way that contempory, custom-made Kickstarter products struggle to replicate. Bioware and their PnP AD&D background, Tim Cain and his underground skunkworks project that gradually developed into Fallout, Chris Avellone and all his ideas about subverting tropes that coalesced in Planescape: Torment. You can't throw four million dollars at somebody and go "Pretend it's 1999 again, that you've been playing tabletop RPGs for 6 years and brainstorming all sorts of wacky ideas, and that voice-acted console RPGs never happened! MAKE ME A CLASSIC!". These games simply aren't "of their time" anymore, and that organic experience and accumulation of good ideas will take time to develop again.

Good thoughts. I think a huge part of this is also that the people making the old games that we revere were multi-faceted individuals whose lives weren't just games and pulled inspirations from disparate non-game sources. They were engaged in software engineering, read books that had nothing to do with games, studied history, worked in other professions (Vault Dweller). In general, they were not people who would consider themselves gamers in the modern sense. Those older games were products of a vision inspired by things outside of games, whereas modern 'classic rpg' developers are making games inspired by games. And it shows.

 

[imweasel]

[James Ohlen's] skills are wasted on TOR.

Indeed. Hopefully Beamdog can and will lure him in for BG3.

Don't know if it has been posted yet but an interview with Phillip Daigle.

http://www.gamereactor.eu/grtv/?id=257103

Those new particle effects are fucking awesome.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Good thoughts. I think a huge part of this is also that the people making the old games that we revere were multi-faceted individuals whose lives weren't just games and pulled inspirations from disparate non-game sources. They were engaged in software engineering, read books that had nothing to do with games, studied history, worked in other professions (Vault Dweller). In general, they were not people who would consider themselves gamers in the modern sense. Those older games were products of a vision inspired by things outside of games, whereas modern 'classic rpg' developers are making games inspired by games. And it shows.

That's why I like CD projekt as a developer, they dream big, they try to make something unique, which can fail miserably as in the Witcher 2 or succeed massively as in the Witcher 3.

A good developer sets the bar, a mediocre one just tries to ride the wave and hopefully not drown by the next fiscal year.