Obsidian never said it was going to play like an IE game. Saying they were going to use their own rules from day one was proof of that. All those Josh-quotes I posted before the Kickstarter ended where he talked about D&D being garbage was also proof.
Obsidian asking for money said:Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.
Sure, most of us here read all the quotes about Sawyer hating D&D and the discussions on these threads and probably suspected that Sawyer would end up producing something as different as he thought he could get away with. But an average person checking out the kickstarter and reading the following quote would, I suggest, expect a game that plays "like an IE game":
Obsidian asking for money said:Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.
Maybe start by telling him about yourself instead. Common courtesy is to let the guy know you a little better if you're gonna be following his posterior around with your tongue out.Oh yeah, sorry Anthony Davis, I forgot to tell you about roshan. But I don't think he posts on your forums.
So we agree that differences in classes are more pronounced.Sure, the differences between classes like fighter/ranger/barbarian do seem to be more pronounced in PoE but keep in mind that even limited spellcasting (say Ranger's very useful at higher levels Armor of Faith) along with some other kit/class specific abilities do make them play differently enough and can be very useful depending on your party composition (not everyone goes through the game every time with a caster heavy party or rest spams, just like not everyone rolls a diplo-sniper everytime in Fallout).
"Decent" at 14 is highly debatable. I would say, "fairly shitty but not completely shitty" at 14.IE monk sucked until level 14 (when it receives a major magic resistance boost and his fists become +2 weapon) and is a decent class from then on, way before TOB.
Those other 2 kits are garbage and their abilities are surpassed by mid game items in BG2. The notion of a single weapon of a specific type defining an entire class is terrible.-Inquisitor is arguably the most powerful melee class in BG2 but Cavalier and Undead Hunter have pretty useful abilities of their own (and don't lose Turn Undead which is an underused ability that works even against liches at higher levels), they're certainly not garbage. Also, getting the Holy Avenger is and should feel like a defining moment for any paladin class/kit, it's intentional.
Or just make a gnomish fighter/thief for shorty saving throws, backstab, thief skills, traps, etc. Stalker was garbage.The only Ranger kit that is shit is Beastmaster, Stalker can be pretty potent with their Backstab (can reach x4), Fighter HP and THAC0 progression, Haste spell (that doesn't fatigue you IIRC), low level Priest Buff spells etc. not to mention that they have no real drawback given the abundance of great leather armours in the game.
There are less flat out useless stat arrays and classes in PoE than in the IE games. Even the ranger and wizard, which I dislike, are of more use to the party than many of the classes/kits in the IE titles. This is TEN TIMES more true if playing BG1 at PoE levels before it was modded to have kits and crap.-Lastly, saying that the majority of IE classes/kits were garbage is just exaggerated nonsense. You're delusional if you don't think PoE will have optimum builds/classes/party compositions (even after 100 balance patches) etc. doesn't mean the rest of the options will be garbage as long as they result in a different gameplay experience and are good enough to tackle everything the game throws at you.
I could steamroll most of the IE games. Also, you dont need hard counters to have players do more than auto attack. That is a false,choice right there.Hard counters/Magic protection minigame do present issues of their own no doubt but atleast they do a good job of making sure various encounters feel different as you can't just tank and spank/bruteforce every enemy you come across, you have to adjust.
Damn it! Now I have to rewrite the script for my Josh Sawyer Bond villain spoof. Obama's reaction to Sawyer's removal of combat exp was pure comedy gold. You've ruined that scene Obsidian. I hope you're proud of yourselves.There is some sort of combat exp. system now in the game.
You can still do scenes depicting past events, I don't see the problem.Damn it! Now I have to rewrite the script for my Josh Sawyer Bond villain spoof. Obama's reaction to Sawyer's removal of combat exp was pure comedy gold. You've ruined that scene Obsidian. I hope you're proud of yourselves.There is some sort of combat exp. system now in the game.
Damn it! Now I have to rewrite the script for my Josh Sawyer Bond villain spoof. Obama's reaction to Sawyer's removal of combat exp was pure comedy gold. You've ruined that scene Obsidian. I hope you're proud of yourselves.There is some sort of combat exp. system now in the game.
So basically your argument is, everything is shit so it's ok if PoE is shit as well?Umm, you could do the same thing over and over in IE and beat them all easily. Haste, kill, sleep. Haste, kill, sleep. Something hard? Stinking cloud, web, cloudkill, then haste, kill, sleep. Bring inquisitor just in case of invis or the need for dispel. Make sure wiz has breach. Tactics?
Edit: I guess on rare occaisions you prebuff, attack and pray (dragons) or you cheese shit with traps/skull traps too. Almost forgot those.
Oh well.Bestiary XP is rewarded when new entries are unlocked in the Bestiary page in the Journal, and will stop being rewarded if the entry is complete.
So we agree that differences in classes are more pronounced.
"Decent" at 14 is highly debatable. I would say, "fairly shitty but not completely shitty" at 14.
Those other 2 kits are garbage and their abilities are surpassed by mid game items in BG2.
The notion of a single weapon of a specific type defining an entire class is terrible.
Or just make a gnomish fighter/thief for shorty saving throws, backstab, thief skills, traps, etc. Stalker was garbage.
There are less flat out useless stat arrays and classes in PoE than in the IE games. Even the ranger and wizard, which I dislike, are of more use to the party than many of the classes/kits in the IE titles. This is TEN TIMES more true if playing BG1 at PoE levels before it was modded to have kits and crap.
I could steamroll most of the IE games. Also, you dont need hard counters to have players do more than auto attack. That is a false,choice right there.
So basically your argument is, everything is shit so it's ok if PoE is shit as well?Umm, you could do the same thing over and over in IE and beat them all easily. Haste, kill, sleep. Haste, kill, sleep. Something hard? Stinking cloud, web, cloudkill, then haste, kill, sleep. Bring inquisitor just in case of invis or the need for dispel. Make sure wiz has breach. Tactics?
Edit: I guess on rare occaisions you prebuff, attack and pray (dragons) or you cheese shit with traps/skull traps too. Almost forgot those.
I don't really agree with your assessment either though.
So it's still shit then? That's a relief.Damn it! Now I have to rewrite the script for my Josh Sawyer Bond villain spoof. Obama's reaction to Sawyer's removal of combat exp was pure comedy gold. You've ruined that scene Obsidian. I hope you're proud of yourselves.There is some sort of combat exp. system now in the game.
He's talking about the bestiary xp, it's nothing new
I perfer dps/support builds for fighters in PoE. Ciphers and Chanters are awesome and play very differently as far as casters go. Druid in PoE are better than single class druids in IE (in some ways) though shapeshift still sucks. Priests are starting to feel pretty fun too. Wizards still suck, Ill admit that.For those specific classes (Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger and Paladin), not so sure about others as some of them seem to be IE Mage split into several parts and I'm not so crazy about Monks being walking punching bags and Fighter and Rogue differing from one another by being a tank and DPS machine respectively.
Ability to solo is not entirely relevant but a cleric/ranger could have done it 20x better.Disagree, I soloed BG2 with Monk few years back and while it was a struggle until he reached level 14, he more than held his own afterwards.
I disagree but I also felt BG2 was too Monty Hall.Meh, I like the idea of a class specific legendary weapon with unique stats rather then being rewarded with a sword that does 5% more damage than the previous one and gives +2 to Athletics and +1 to Lore or something.
Nah, f/t is better the whole way thru bgt. Try it.Gnomish F/T won't take over Stalker until you reach TOB level XP and start accessing HLAs.
This is untrueBy less useless stat arrays do you mean one optimal stat distribution regardless of the class
I dunno. I didnt have to use half of that stuff. When I did, it was all about prebuffing and items. Thats not tactics, its strategy and its shitty strategy at that.hard counter stuff
Positive: 630
Mixed: 84
Negative: 124
Positive: 683
Mixed: 73
Negative: 184
Positive: 1,601
Mixed: 65
Negative: 127
Can someone spare us and just ban roguey? I understand freedom of speech and all that good shit here in the Codex, but using metacritic reviews for any argument is simply beyond retarded and a would warrant a ban.
And if PoE end us beign a clearly better game than Wasteland 2 I will ban myself
Umm, you could do the same thing over and over in IE and beat them all easily. Haste, kill, sleep. Haste, kill, sleep. Something hard? Stinking cloud, web, cloudkill, then haste, kill, sleep. Bring inquisitor just in case of invis or the need for dispel. Make sure wiz has breach. Tactics?
Edit: I guess on rare occaisions you prebuff, attack and pray (dragons) or you cheese shit with traps/skull traps too. Almost forgot those.