Another Mask of the Betrayer thread!

[Shannow]

SPOILAR: Somehow the option to destroy the wall simply vanished. I'm not sure whether it was because of some ill chosen dialogue option along the way or if it is simply impossible because Kelemvor intervenes. I felt quite stupid after chaining the Hunger and then not being able to destroy the wall or fight Kelemvor. I would have been fine with losing miserably but not having the option was kinda meh.
I also had a look at some walkthrough because I don't want to replay it right away and was interested what the other possibilities were. Completing that mask is impossible if you don't know where to find the third part. And unless I missed something obvious, you don't get any hint where to search for it.
About my comments on influence some clarification: I really dislike boni that come like that. Apart from that I think it was a little better than in NWN2OC/KotORs because of less obvious "grubbing". So if they'd left those boni away I would have called it a slight improvement (a little less sucky).

And now I'm gonna re-read this thread without leaving out the spoilers.

 

[Helton]

We have a spoiler thread, also.

 

[Starwars]

*spoiler*

I found all 3 pieces of the Mask on my first playthrough, and I had no idea where to look. If one explores a bit, it's not hard at all to find them. I never actually looked for them, I just found them as the game goes on.

 

[dagorkan]

Question: can you solo MotB?

I hate having to deal with companions in IE/RTwP games and I usually don't care for the personalities much. If it's possible I'd prefer a more powerful PC and not deal with those all the shitty combat and reloading you're forced into because a retard NPC has gone and got himself killed again...

Or did they 'fix' that by making followers unkillable?

 

[made]

I don't know if it applies to all the followers, but some of them can be declined, or outright killed when you encounter them. Definitely an improvement over the OC, although this time around I found all of them likable/interesting enough to keep around.

And yeah, seriously, use the spoiler thread; it's been opened for a reason.

 

[Starwars]

The only time you have to have a follower is in the 'starting area'. Once you're outta there, you can kick out that companion and not bring along any other for the remainder of the game. Might be hard though, and who knows how the story will play.

 

[HanoverF]

Well if you survive they're unkillable, everyone auto rezes after combat. I just turn the AI off, pause when combat starts to issue everyone orders and only repause to issue new commands if really needed. As has been said you can give them the boot, tho unlike the oc they are one of the more enjoyable aspects this time. I think some of the combats would be impossible without other bodies and summons and things for all the enemies to focus on.

 

[aweigh]

You'll have a hell of a time solo-ing MotB, that's for sure. You would need an uber RDD build cheesed out to the max, and even then it's doubtful. In any case, your companions auto-rez after each battle. There are resurrections spells in the game, but they're for if they die during the actual combat.

 

[roshan]

You'll have a hell of a time solo-ing MotB, that's for sure. You would need an uber RDD build cheesed out to the max, and even then it's doubtful. In any case, your companions auto-rez after each battle. There are resurrections spells in the game, but they're for if they die during the actual combat.

Soloing MOTB is not difficult. In fact, I virtually soloed the game, since after shadow Mulsantir I turned off party AI for the rest of the game, and my companions were largely uninvolved in combat. My build (Fighter/Berserker/Weaponmaster) made mincemeat out of all the enemies. The hardest fight in the game was with the horde of epic vampires - the challenge was perfect, and I had to reload a few times to win. Two fights with death knights, and those two shadow guardians outside the temple were decent, required some thought to get past without having to reload. However, after shadow Mulsantir Obsidian dropped the ball. I dont recall a single challenge in any of the three areas where you get mask fragments, except minor challenges in the animal caves and fighting Ganns mother - but those were nowhere near challenging enough to even pose the possibility of having to reload.

 

[roshan]

Its just that some of the choices seemed really shallow. For example, I killed the coven. But all those waiting to see them were still standing in line, I couldnt even tell them that the coven was dead.

I don't think that this example makes killing the coven a shallow choice. It's like complaining that after killing Gizmo in Fallout his casino isn't taken over by someone else. While such details would have been nice, they are nothing but icing on top of a big fucking cake.

Another was the camp in the Ashenwood. I went back to the two telthor witches after having killed the people at the camp, but did not get any new dialogue options or replies.

You can't get new dialogues with everyone after each quest or choice. No game can do that, so let's criticize MotB for the real faults, not the imaginary ones.

Take the beginning of the game, whether you desecrate Okkus grandfather or not has no effect on whether or not you have to fight him at the end of the cave.

It was clearly explained why Okku is after you and it's not because you desecrated hs barrow.

Im not asking for new dialogues or reactions from everyone - just those that one would logically expect to react to such choices.

 

[roshan]

Everyone waiting in line for the hags turns hostile once you kill them.

The coven in Sunken City?
I killed the sleeping hags, too, and everyone attacked me on sight - waves of guards, then lich - then all those in the line (except animal spirits because I had Okku with me).
Even the merchant and genie who gave me the quest to destroy the earth elemental. (Btw. which I failed to destory - I decided to not let the place cave in and took more effort and repaired all other elemental "power stations" instead).

Didnt happen in my game - I only had to fight the guards. What happens if you do destroy the elemental? Does that eliminate the possibility of meeting the coven? I think Ill try that next time, since I do not want to go back and forth in that dungeon ever again.

4. The influence system is even shittier than before. Repeatedly saving their lives doesn't improve your companions disposition towards you but some dialogue options do. It is not as bad as NWN2OC or the KotORs but it is still your companions who influence you and not the other way around. (SPOILAR: Especially crappy are the boni you get from your companions when they like you enough.)

Yes, it is an awful game mechanic. The worst thing about influence is that it doesnt allow you to influence the characters at all. You cant convince Gann that the gods exist, you cant get Kaelyn to drop the stupid idea of a crusade against the wall. All it is really is a measure of how much you have sucked up to those characters. The influence system is simply too one dimensional. Sadly, it seems to have become an Obsidian trademark, like Radiant AI is a Bethesda trademark.

BTW, any idea about whether Okku or One of Many provide bonuses to the PC, the way that Kaelyn does? Or do they just give bonuses to themselves, like Gann and Safiya?

5. Loading screens, loading screens, loading screens, loading ... you get the gist.

Never had a problem with loading in MOTB. In fact, load times are almost instantaneous on my 3 year old laptop. On the other hand, in the NWN2 OC, there were times when I had to wait as long as a minute for an area to load.

9. The camera in close-up dialogue is crap. I don't know if it is because I play a dwarf but the angle is always wrong and there is always at least one companion standing in the way.

Its a good thing that close up dialogue has largely been eliminated in MOTB, at least in comparison to the original campaign.

13. (Spoiler) The Academy: I don't mind puzzles but the whole soul reading device thingy was dumb. Far too many clicks were involved to read those souls. They simply should have given the pc the ability to gain information from them. Also having three separate areas for the academy is stupid design. The puzzles weren't so easily solved that you only had to visit one area once or twice. A lot of backtracking over load screens is bad, mmmkay.

That was a lousy puzzle.... After I got the first try wrong, I just went to the forums and found out which was the correct combination of souls.

15. Fighting gnolls, animals or students that have been bumped up to epic levels is stupid. I'd rather have less fights. But those should be with enemies that make sense to pose a challenge.

Fully agree.

16. Too many autosaves, especially in the plane of shadows. I load a quicksave and the first thing that happens is an autosave. wtf?

Obsidian seems to have overestimated the challenge level of MOTB.

 

[Vault Dweller]

BTW, any idea about whether Okku or One of Many provide bonuses to the PC, the way that Kaelyn does? Or do they just give bonuses to themselves, like Gann and Safiya?

Safiya does give you a bonus: Devotion of a Red Wizard: +2 Int, +4 vs spells.

That was a lousy puzzle.... After I got the first try wrong, I just went to the forums and found out which was the correct combination of souls.

Great argument.

 

[Jasede]

Hey VD, my old friend, are you writing on a review yet?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Playing with a different character, making different choices. I can't really talk about the choices if I have no idea what they lead to, can I? I made a smooth talking rogue with a touch of fighter and some shadowdancer flavor. The extra dialogue options are very nice.

 

[Fresh]

I have to try this game... So refreshing to hear about a storyline that doesn't involve saving the world/universe/blah.

 

[roshan]

Safiya does give you a bonus: Devotion of a Red Wizard: +2 Int, +4 vs spells.

Strange, I did not get that feat, although Safiya got the "devotion of a red wizard" feat giving her 6 concentration, 2 Int, improved empower spell and 2 save vs spells. Probably a bug.

I just noticed "Safiyas love" on my character screen providing 35 spell resistance and 2 wisdom.

Great argument.

That wasnt an argument. I did find a soul that was apparently rich, and another one that seemed to be of a poor person, and put them together. But it wasnt the correct combination. I had about 8 or more different souls in total, and I didnt want to go through the cycle of checking them all one by one in the viewer, removing the extra souls from my inventory, talking to the golem, putting them together, going down and talking to the demons, going back up, talking to the golem and dismantling the souls, going back to the library over and over again.

I dont think the Skein puzzle was well done either. They could have just had us fix one elemental generator instead of three, with multiple options for how to do so - only the last of the generators involved multiple paths for completion. I dont see what the point of making players go back and forth doing the same thing three times over was.

Two of the dream puzzles were very well done(the cards and the contract). The other one involving leading someone out of a maze, as well as the mephit and mirror puzzles later on were simplistic, but better that than repetitiveness.

 

[Zomg]

Hey this is a SPOILER thread now, OK? SPOILER:




I think the Safiya's Love feat must come from you picking the "I love you, too" option when she confesses her love for the male PC. I picked the reply where the PC says she's only being manipulated and I kept the Devotion of the Red Wizard feat, which is the one you get just from having high influence with her.

 

[roshan]

Hey this is a SPOILER thread now, OK? SPOILER:




I think the Safiya's Love feat must come from you picking the "I love you, too" option when she confesses her love for the male PC. I picked the reply where the PC says she's only being manipulated and I kept the Devotion of the Red Wizard feat, which is the one you get just from having high influence with her.

Thing is, I never got devotion of the red wizard, not even before getting Safiyas love, even though she had the feat, and the influence level was devoted.

 

[HanoverF]

Hey this is a SPOILER thread now, OK? SPOILER:




I think the Safiya's Love feat must come from you picking the "I love you, too" option when she confesses her love for the male PC. I picked the reply where the PC says she's only being manipulated and I kept the Devotion of the Red Wizard feat, which is the one you get just from having high influence with her.

Thing is, I never got devotion of the red wizard, not even before getting Safiyas love, even though she had the feat, and the influence level was devoted.

Are you sure she didn't initiate a dialog and you just rushed past or shooshed her?

In regards to differences I did not fix any machines in the sewer, I got one to needing a lever, took it from the elemental device, then smashed it and killed the elemental and suddenly the way was blocked to everything but mommy dearest. And I did fight the coven. Also on the way in I had to fight all but the last place in line, so on my way out I only had to fight guards.

I do agree about the soul puzzle, I made a little pile of definitely not souls and the two needed were the ones in that pile (something about pulling a lever makes someone poor/selfless or rich/selfish?). I checked a guide to find the answer and going back through the guide on what I had passed I was pretty impressed that in some cases they did totally different things. Not sure it's worth a second playthrough unless I go the polar opposite totally evil dick "gift" route tho.

 

[aweigh]

roshan, @ what difficulty were you soloing? I play on the maximum one.

 

[cardtrick]

Hey this is a SPOILER thread now, OK? SPOILER:




I think the Safiya's Love feat must come from you picking the "I love you, too" option when she confesses her love for the male PC. I picked the reply where the PC says she's only being manipulated and I kept the Devotion of the Red Wizard feat, which is the one you get just from having high influence with her.

Thing is, I never got devotion of the red wizard, not even before getting Safiyas love, even though she had the feat, and the influence level was devoted.

I think when she offers to become your teacher after she becomes devoted, you need to accept that offer . . . pretty sure that's the in-game explanation for why you get that feat. If you declined (or exited the dialog without reading it, or something), then I doubt you would get the feat.

Or, you could have a bug. I didn't have any, but it hardly seems to be a bug-free game.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Just how differently?

* * * SPOILERS * * *

You start in a spirit barrow. The exit to the higher level is blocked by the spirits (they are maintaining an earth equivalent of force field) You can smash the sacred bones, pissing the spirits off and forcing them to attack you and thus abandoning the "force field". You can go and look for some offering to please the spirits. You can explore and find a rod that can blast through the force field. I think there was also a spell-related way to get through if you pass a spellcraft dialogue check.

If you look for some offerings you find an elemental. He guards that area and will be forced to fight you ... unless you release him from his duties and become his master. Your wizard companion says that you can't trust these fuckers, so that's your call.

Eventually you have to confront Okku the bear-god. When you defeat him and his spirit army, you have a choice to make: devour his spirit and get a special item or spare him. If you spare him, he joins you and he packs quite a punch. If you devour him, the special item allows you to get a very special and fucked up party member.

Then when everyone tells you that you have this horrible curse, some kid tells you that his tribe happened to think that you have a gift. It's optional and the game is non-linear, unlike the OC, but I decided to seek a second opinion on my condition.

I had Okku with me and he confronted the tribe forcing me to fight. Now I don't have Okku and things are different. I can actually talk to these "people". I can even lure some humans to be sacrificed there. Isn't that wonderful?

What else? I found a dead body in the shadow Mulsantir, guarded by some undead. There was a book nearby showing how to complete a ritual the poor bastard attempted. You can crash his skull, complete the ritual, or release his soul if you have that particular power.

Then there is a guy who wants to study necromancy. You can find a book detailing how to become a lich. You can give or sell him the book and you can either force him to promise you that he will not attempt to follow the instructions and only study the book or you can tell him "have fun with that".

Etc. A LOT of skill/stat checks. Pure fighters will miss on a lot of optional content.

hey if someone is asking about a game that they don't have don't try to explain it to them with spoilers.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'll keep that in mind.

Anyone got Devour Soul? Any other "evil" abilities? My craving meter is at 3/4 and I'm losing points very fast, but you can always find something to feed on (if you are truly evil ), so the complaints seem to be vastly exaggerated.

 

[The_Pope]

I actually liked the whole epic gnolls and badgers thing. Epic levels are a joke, may as well treat them like one.

 

[Andrej]

*spoiler*

I found all 3 pieces of the Mask on my first playthrough, and I had no idea where to look.

Same here.