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Alpha Protocol sucks massive Multi-Headed Dick

Mrowak

Arcane
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Sep 26, 2008
Messages
3,947
Project: Eternity
It's common sense. We all played all kinds of shooters, so why would anyone want to start playing it as a shooter when allegedly it has alternative fun route?
Because combining everything is the most fun way to play the game? I always save pure stealth or Rambo runs for later playthroughs.

How am I to know that before playing it for the first time? And then when I learn that spies suck I already have a broken character build. It's not the kind of C&C one seeks in RPGs.
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
Then again, if you make a pure stealth character with no weapon skills and expect to just ghost through the game on your first playthrough, you're probably not a very monocled guy to begin with.

Yes, it's more like hipster "pseudo-monocled".

"Look how smart and civilized I am! I'm gonna beat this game without killing anybody, on my first try. Because violence is SO crude."

I bet you are telling yourself that to excuse blatanty broken game design. The truth is AP was advertised for its stealth (the whole "espionage" thing?) and it sucking ass cannot be forgiven. To be honest even shooting sequences were blegh. Gameplaywise the whole game sucks gigantic cocks. I can only forgive it for having interesting take on a story and a couple of gimmicks associated with it (dossiers and how they worked was pretty sweet).
Eh, modern espionage game, I took to mean as a game in the style of the Bourne Series, or similar in theory to a more diplomatic Splinter Cell. Not to mean, "This will be just like Thief. Only not." Because that style in not what modern espionage means. More than that, in the interviews when they were talking about it. They mentioned things like Bauer, Bond and Bourne as the types of people you could play. The three B's of Espionage I think one person said at some point. You could intimidate your way through, going in with violence and kill em all tactics befitting Bauer. Or you could charm your way through, using cool devices and gadgets to get through your opposition, though mainly relying on mastery of diplomacy and a good bluff to avoid most of the violence, akin to Bond. Or you could sneak and skulk about, relying on stealth, like Bourne. But inevitably with all these, due to your characters own pride, your enemies skill, and the fact that you have to rush in situations like this, you will get into a knock down actiony brawl. These are the archetypes you see in the plot lines of modern spy movies and TV shows. Show me one modern(From the 90s onward) spy movie where the character doesn't get into a fight at all?
 

Mrowak

Arcane
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
3,947
Project: Eternity
Then again, if you make a pure stealth character with no weapon skills and expect to just ghost through the game on your first playthrough, you're probably not a very monocled guy to begin with.

Yes, it's more like hipster "pseudo-monocled".

"Look how smart and civilized I am! I'm gonna beat this game without killing anybody, on my first try. Because violence is SO crude."

I bet you are telling yourself that to excuse blatanty broken game design. The truth is AP was advertised for its stealth (the whole "espionage" thing?) and it sucking ass cannot be forgiven. To be honest even shooting sequences were blegh. Gameplaywise the whole game sucks gigantic cocks. I can only forgive it for having interesting take on a story and a couple of gimmicks associated with it (dossiers and how they worked was pretty sweet).
Eh, modern espionage game, I took to mean as a game in the style of the Bourne Series, or similar in theory to a more diplomatic Splinter Cell. Not to mean, "This will be just like Thief. Only not." Because that style in not what modern espionage means. More than that, in the interviews when they were talking about it. They mentioned things like Bauer, Bond and Bourne as the types of people you could play. The three B's of Espionage I think one person said at some point. You could intimidate your way through, going in with violence and kill em all tactics befitting Bauer. Or you could charm your way through, using cool devices and gadgets to get through your opposition, though mainly relying on mastery of diplomacy and a good bluff to avoid most of the violence, akin to Bond. Or you could sneak and skulk about, relying on stealth, like Bourne. But inevitably with all these, due to your characters own pride, your enemies skill, and the fact that you have to rush in situations like this, you will get into a knock down actiony brawl. These are the archetypes you see in the plot lines of modern spy movies and TV shows. Show me one modern(From the 90s onward) spy movie where the character doesn't get into a fight at all?

I am not saying that it is bad the game forces you into gunfights. I am saying that the espionage stealth aspect might as well *not* suck arse. One way to fix it is ointroduce normally killable enemies as opposed to HP sponges.
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131

I am not saying that it is bad the game forces you into gunfights. I am saying that the espionage stealth aspect might as well *not* suck arse. One way to fix it is ointroduce normally killable enemies as opposed to HP sponges.
I'd agree that HP sponges suck, a lot. The encounter design sucks, and honestly I think I would have preferred a dialogue puzzle style thing in the vein of what Deus Ex:HR came up with. Or possibly a Walking Dead style QTE puzzle to those encounters. Maybe even a mix of both. Because generally in the types of movies the narrative is aping you have these long discussions and it turns the fights, rather than into a dual of endurance, into a contest of wills and personalities, and I do believe that is something that Alpha Protocol lacks.
 

Carrion

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How am I to know that before playing it for the first time? And then when I learn that spies suck I already have a broken character build. It's not the kind of C&C one seeks in RPGs.
When playing the game first time you should maybe try out different stuff and see how it works. At least that's what "common sense" tells me. Also, I don't think you can really have a broken character build in AP. Some parts can be hard for certain builds, but certainly not impossible. Although stealth sucks, a stealth character will get through 90% of the game just fine, and after the first boss fight the player will probably realize that some weapon skills might be useful too. Besides, have you ever heard of a secret agent who didn't know how fire a gun?

I do think that it's shitty design that the player is forced into certain situations that completely go against his character build, and by no means am I defending AP as it does many things extremely poorly, but in RPGs highly specialized builds are usually for those people who already know the game and its mechanics very well. Playing a pure stealth character, diplomat or other non-combat build almost always requires some meta knowledge or abuse of game mechanics. At the top of my head I can't think of a single exception to this rule.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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"I should be able to complete this game using only this one single skill. Fuck the other eight." is an odd attitude to have.

Also under no circumstances should you play AP on hard.

How am I to know that before playing it for the first time? And then when I learn that spies suck I already have a broken character build. It's not the kind of C&C one seeks in RPGs.
You're allowed to respec after you leave Saudi Arabia. By then, you should know full well that stealth isn't a 100% reliable option.
 

Bony

Learned
Queued
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Dec 25, 2012
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AP_thumb_02_SITE3.jpg
 

Jick Magger

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria
Just max out martial arts and stealth and/or toughness. You'll wind up with either a Mike who can run around the battlefield kneeing people in the face while bullets bounce harmlessly off of his tank-like armour, or a Mike who can basically wander into a fire-team completely unnoticed, one-shot them all with melee takedowns, and quickly turn invisible again when their ridiculously quick cooldown period passes and do it all again.
 

Grim Monk

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
1,218
0yINO7Y.jpg


Just finished the game yesterday, thread title is not correct.
Game is at least: "good for what it is".

Played on Hard.

3c7XWKS.jpg

My stats at the end of the game.

Will probably try replaying it couple more times...
 
Joined
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The island of misfit mascots
Clockwork Knight said:
Metalcraze said:
You are pretty much defining fanboy here. A blind hate of any, even valid, critique of a game, ignorance - as your "godmode" comment proves and, of course, trying to switch topic at how dumb/cocksucking your opponent is, finally the lack of any arguments. Just don't criticize mah gaem.

:lol:

This is beyond ironic

What's so ironic about it?
F.e. when I made Total War thread - many people criticized the game in it and I always posted arguments to protect it. When I made Dark Messiah thread - people criticized it. I posted arguments to protect it. While all you can do is post lulz.
So where's the irony?

If you stopped taking your definition of irony from Alanis Morrisette it might become clear:)
 
Joined
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Just max out martial arts and stealth and/or toughness. You'll wind up with either a Mike who can run around the battlefield kneeing people in the face while bullets bounce harmlessly off of his tank-like armour, or a Mike who can basically wander into a fire-team completely unnoticed, one-shot them all with melee takedowns, and quickly turn invisible again when their ridiculously quick cooldown period passes and do it all again.

True, although with a stealth/martial arts character you're going to cry when you get to (a) the fight with the Chinese double agent, and (b) the helicopter+marines section in the end game (the fucking copter spots stealth, and the enemy positioning/AI means that you can only cloak-kill the first couple of guys). Both parts are still doable with that build, but you'll need to lure the Chinese guy into mines in order to get the edge on him in a fistfight (he's got maxed out martial arts) and it took a fair bit of planning before I could get a stealth route that enabled me to take out enough of the marines that I didn't get wtf-pwned when I had to leave stealth.

Also, with that build you're forced to abuse cloak (and then hide in the corner like a girly man) in order to stop Brayko from gutting you with his knives, so you can go punch him out when he switches back to his smg...OR you can do the mission with his cocaine supplier first and let the guy live in return for him poisoning Brayko's cocaine.
 

LusciousPear

Savant
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SF
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I thought it was a solid game story-wise, and Stephen Heck (sp) is my favorite NPC EVAR.

-B
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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Messages
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you'll need to lure the Chinese guy into mines in order to get the edge on him in a fistfight (he's got maxed out martial arts)
That's Marburg, I had no problems stunlocking Omen Deng with martial arts. He's just a shotgun/stealth specialist.
 

Junmarko

† Cristo è Re †
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So many other rough gems have been polished by a dedicated commune. VTM:B, Arcanum, Gothic 3, Kotor 2 to name a few...
I'm confused, why hasn't there been a fan based patch for this game yet? It seems to have a pretty big cult following.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
So many other rough gems have been polished by a dedicated commune. VTM:B, Arcanum, Gothic 3, Kotor 2 to name a few...
I'm confused, why hasn't there been a fan based patch for this game yet? It seems to have a pretty big cult following.

Because Unreal engine.
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
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Narnia
Also because it's actually less buggy than Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 and all problems with it can be solved with two-three edits in the ini-file.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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Messages
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Can't fix the balance or the content though. :M
 

Jaesun

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Seattle, WA USA
MCA
Also because it's actually less buggy than Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 and all problems with it can be solved with two-three edits in the ini-file.

I know! :lol: Mass Effect 2 STILL has that fucking game breaking bug (A GAME BREAKING BUG) in Mordin's Loyalty mission.

They still have not fixed that.
 

Jaesun

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I know! :lol: Mass Effect 2 STILL has that fucking game breaking bug (A GAME BREAKING BUG) in Mordin's Loyalty mission
Wait what? where? how?

Note: A bug will occasionally prevent you from leaving the room if you choose to "stay" in Maelon's Lab, a precursor to this is if you find yourself unable to save after defeating Guld, fortunately the game autosaves just before entering Maelon's Lab and sometimes when reloaded the inability to save is fixed. If you have previously disabled autosave in the options menu, be sure to re-enable before entering. Looking at the monitor at the lower right side behind you (if facing the wall at the end of the room) triggers this again, you can save properly if you just hack the wall computer and do not turn towards your right at least not enough to activate the monitor.​

And they are completely full of shit saying this bug is occasional. It happens EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME I have played ME2 (over SEVEN times).
 

Humppaleka

Cipher
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
863
Yes, I'm currently playing this and I love it, I just think the bossfights are from another studio like with Human Revolution. They are just disgustingly bad and require metagaming, something that I hate above all...
Having an absolute blast otherwise, had a mission-breaking bug and very weird results (getting random outcomes, e.g. "you killed these guys and blasted your way in" when I sneaked very carefully inside) along with the twitchy AI. A flawed game perhaps, but an enjoyable one.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
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The bosses are all Obsidian. You were never meant to be able to stealth through everything. I don't understand why you'd need metagaming knowledge to beat them, just shoot them from cover until they die.

(getting random outcomes, e.g. "you killed these guys and blasted your way in" when I sneaked very carefully inside)
The Russian embassy mission right? The guards go hostile on you if you sneak in through the roof. They remain your allies if you walk up to the front door and bluff your way in.
 

Humppaleka

Cipher
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
863
Should have corrected: "I like to think they are from another studio..." With metagaming I meant that yeah I knew there'd be bossfights but I hadn't put almost any points into weapon skills thus far, as you could sneak your way through absolutely everything until that point. Suddenly you are in a forced fight where the only way to win is to exploit the god-awful AI. Fun. I know it's my fault for building stupid but I think sea tackled this issue quite well on the Obsidian forums a few years back.

And yeah, the russian embassy... Oh well, what did I expect from an Obsidian game. Why should they go hostile and even more important, why the hell does the game say I killed them when they clearly were my allies in the final fight, and I sure as hell didn't friendly fire.
 

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