Aliens RPG now "officially canceled."

[St. Toxic]

I can say with good probability that I have the largest current spy network in the game industry

...a certain amount of subterfuge goes even further. Such as having my contacts report information to me without even realizing I'm Rosh.

Michael Thorton, I presume?

Also,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baMileejUlw

this is just terrible. There's no logo, the presentation is awfully generic, it's a migrane bomb and I don't see how white noise and static relates to the name. Where's the killing? Where's the space? What's with the sound of an industrial fan travelling into another dimension? For shame.

Overall, thread delivers entertainment.
4/5 Melker Anderssons.

 

[denizsi]

Of the possible names, stealth, evasion, recon & deter all work. Survival, Xeno Defense System and some of the other suggestions do not work at all. They do not provide the required level of differentiation to be a valuable label.They are useless for the same reason that if someone asks me what I am drinking and I reply "a drink," I have not actually provided any useful information.

That pretty much sounds like "I doesn't work because I say so". You reasoning is bollocks, your analogy irrelevant. It's mind-numbing you can say these with confidence at all. One has gotta wonder if you know actual definitions of these words and have dictionaries at all, or that you just picked up these words by reading fanfic (il)literature.

Probably the biggest problem is trying to come up with a mainstream oriented gotta-get'em-all phrase that fails at everything it tries to imply.

 

[Rosh]

WOW.

I kinda understand why Rosh got a cameo in Tictacs now.

And in Planescape: Torment. Which was developed by many current Obsidian folks.

 

[MLMarkland]

If you can't take the critiques, then you need to stop posting stupid shit or apologizing for the mistake of someone letting out your SOOPER SEKRIT GAME DESIGN CODE WORDS!

You've got an imagination. I'm not apologizing for anything. Stealth is still the second best word to describe the gameplay systems I worked on for the Aliens RPG. Evasion was the best. Stealth was a better shorthand because game developers are more familiar with the connotations the word carries.

Just like you were doing fine at making yourself into an idiot despite what the fanboys want to chimp out. Instead of replying with a rational argument trying to detail exactly what the fuck you guys were trying to mean by "stealth", you decided to go for spamming stupidity.

It's not my job to detail the game design on a cancelled project at another studio. But I'm not going to sit around while you rant about absurdities.

You think I might have been a bit too harsh? I'm nowhere near as nice as some Aliens fanboys. I was letting you get a feel of what they do on a regular basis.

I don't think you are a bit too harsh. I think you are trolling or just confused or just angry. I've given up on deciphering which.

Because the game industry, in general, sucks?

I'm not disagreeing with you. Most of the games put out recently have been complete garbage.

Funny you should mention that, as angry is happening across the industry as a whole, and customer dissatisfaction is causing many developer houses to fold or be bought out.

You talk like me, Davis, Annie, Sawyer and anyone else that hangs out on these boards is part of some game developer conspiracy to keep the good gamers down. I guess you wouldn't have as much to scream about if that wasn't true.

I was just a regular gamer and member of these boards as recently as a two years ago. I went to work at Obsidian because I liked Fallout and Planescape and RPGs generally. I spent a year of my life trying to make a Planescape mod for NWN2.

I don't do this for the money. I took a huge pay cut when I decided not to be a lawyer and work in the game business instead.

I'm not saying that for any other reason than to demonstrate that there isn't some kind of US VS THEM thing going on here.

You and Obsidian might preach high ideals, but in the end, Obsidian still releases half-ass half-finished games. Repeatedly. See my sig for the next Obsidian abomination.

Their only attempts at decent games have thus, so far, been met with cancellations and excuses.

I don't work at Obsidian. Your crusade against them is your own business. I am just taking issue with your obtuse rants in regards to what word was used in organizing large groupings of roleplaying game mechanics.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Pictures speak a thousand words.

Unless it's a picture of one word. Stealth.

Bet you the aliens can't detect that.

EDIT: just remembered I have and american uncle who was one of the first pilots of these things. If you're anything like my friends from middle school you won't believe me though.

So are you working for a big studio or a small one now?

 

[St. Toxic]

Go back a page or two and you'll find out. :wink:

 

[Helton]

And in Planescape: Torment. Which was developed by many current Obsidian folks.

Who were you in PST?

 

[MLMarkland]

That pretty much sounds like "I doesn't work because I say so"

Except no. I said exactly what I meant. Some of the proposed labels do not serve the primary purpose of a label which is adequately identifying a thing for sorting.

Probably the biggest problem is trying to come up with a mainstream oriented gotta-get'em-all phrase that fails at everything it tries to imply.

Except.... I am not trying to do that. I'm not trying to market anything or sell anything to anyone. I don't give a shit about any of this (other than in the context of trying, perhaps in vain, to stem the tide of utter idiocy that flooded this thread).

So are you working for a big studio or a small one now?

Small one.

this is just terrible. There's no logo, the presentation is awfully generic, it's a migrane bomb and I don't see how white noise and static relates to the name. Where's the killing? Where's the space? What's with the sound of an industrial fan travelling into another dimension? For shame.

I'll relay your feedback to the art director. That one is by no means the final product, we've gone through a lot of iterations and the team hasn't really loved any of them yet.

The sound is mostly recordings from Voyager 1 and 2 modulated in various ways.

 

[Rosh]

You've got an imagination. I'm not apologizing for anything. Stealth is still the second best word to describe the gameplay systems I worked on for the Aliens RPG. Evasion was the best. Stealth was a better shorthand because game developers are more familiar with the connotations the word carries.

So much for literacy. Too bad Guerrilla Warfare didn't occur to any of you, even the supposed army man.

It's not my job to detail the game design on a cancelled project at another studio.

Yet you're the one defending it as if I just took a shit in your kid's pram.

But I'm not going to sit around while you rant about absurdities.

Oh, of course not, when you can make them yourself!

I don't think you are a bit too harsh. I think you are trolling or just confused or just angry. I've given up on deciphering which.

Kind of like how I can't tell if you're an apologist or a prideful idiot. Just like how Aliens fans couldn't tell exactly what the fuck stealth would mean in the game outside of your pathetic excuses for uncreative processes so bad, they require another term to be completely bastardized so the entire office can understand the concept.

You talk like me, Davis, Annie, Sawyer and anyone else that hangs out on these boards is part of some game developer conspiracy to keep the good gamers down. I guess you wouldn't have as much to scream about if that wasn't true.

Well, when they aren't trying anymore...

I was just a regular gamer and member of these boards as recently as a two years ago. I went to work at Obsidian because I liked Fallout and Planescape and RPGs generally. I spent a year of my life trying to make a Planescape mod for NWN2.

I don't do this for the money. I took a huge pay cut when I decided not to be a lawyer and work in the game business instead.

I'm not saying that for any other reason than to demonstrate that there isn't some kind of US VS THEM thing going on here.

So, I take it that means you have comparatively jack for actual game design experience? Two years of learning from Obsidian. Wow. I can see what kind of an influence it has had upon you. Feargus must miss you.

 

[Rosh]

Who were you in PST?

Eli(ezer) Havelock, jaded spymaster.

Ironic, no?

 

[Helton]

Ironic, no?

No, I think the word you're looking for is "stealthy".

 

[MLMarkland]

You've got an imagination. I'm not apologizing for anything. Stealth is still the second best word to describe the gameplay systems I worked on for the Aliens RPG. Evasion was the best. Stealth was a better shorthand because game developers are more familiar with the connotations the word carries.

So much for literacy. Too bad Guerrilla Warfare didn't occur to any of you, even the supposed army man.

It's not my job to detail the game design on a cancelled project at another studio.

Yet you're the one defending it as if I just took a shit in your kid's pram.

But I'm not going to sit around while you rant about absurdities.

Oh, of course not, when you can make them yourself!

I don't think you are a bit too harsh. I think you are trolling or just confused or just angry. I've given up on deciphering which.

Kind of like how I can't tell if you're an apologist or a prideful idiot. Just like how Aliens fans couldn't tell exactly what the fuck stealth would mean in the game outside of your pathetic excuses for uncreative processes so bad, they require another term to be completely bastardized so the entire office can understand the concept.

You talk like me, Davis, Annie, Sawyer and anyone else that hangs out on these boards is part of some game developer conspiracy to keep the good gamers down. I guess you wouldn't have as much to scream about if that wasn't true.

Well, when they aren't trying anymore...

I was just a regular gamer and member of these boards as recently as a two years ago. I went to work at Obsidian because I liked Fallout and Planescape and RPGs generally. I spent a year of my life trying to make a Planescape mod for NWN2.

I don't do this for the money. I took a huge pay cut when I decided not to be a lawyer and work in the game business instead.

I'm not saying that for any other reason than to demonstrate that there isn't some kind of US VS THEM thing going on here.

So, I take it that means you have comparatively jack for actual game design experience? Two years of learning from Obsidian. Wow. I can see what kind of an influence it has had upon you. Feargus must miss you.

Did someone at Obsidian reject your job app? Did I key your car or something?

Your posts are laughable in their abject rage at... well at really nothing. There's people getting murdered and raped right now and you are screaming at me becasue we used the word stealth to describe some things that were stealth and some things that weren't stealth a year ago on a cancelled game project.

I mean... wtf?

Edit... wait

Are you in prison? Are you typing these posts from a medium or low-security prison where they have internet access?

 

[Gay-Lussac]

This is such an inane discussion I'm surprised andhaira didn't start it. What the hell are you guys even arguing about anyway? The misuse of a word on the game development of a game that got canceled. Shit I'm surprised didn't reach critical mass yet.

 

[Rosh]

Did someone at Obsidian reject your job app? Did I key your car or something?

As if I would willingly work there.

Your posts are laughable in their abject rage at... well at really nothing. There's people getting murdered and raped right now and you are screaming at me becasue we used the word stealth to describe some things that were stealth and some things that weren't stealth a year ago on a cancelled game project.

I mean... wtf?

Well, with that attention of detail, what else might we expect? Ah, more excuses and tangential waffling from you, which is ad nauseum whenever you're backed into a corner you cannot give an honest answer from. That shows quite a bit about the design philosophy you and Obsidian share.

Edit... wait

Are you in prison? Are you typing these posts from a medium or low-security prison where they have internet access?

Getting desperate?

 

[MLMarkland]

Getting desperate?

No. You are kid's play.

 

[Rosh]

No. You are kid's play.

Says the chimp who can't bother to try.

 

[MLMarkland]

No. You are kid's play.

Says the chimp who can't bother to try.

Yawn. Welcome to the schoolyard.

 

[St. Toxic]

I'll relay your feedback to the art director. That one is by no means the final product, we've gone through a lot of iterations and the team hasn't really loved any of them yet.

The sound is mostly recordings from Voyager 1 and 2 modulated in various ways.

If he needs any help, you let me know.

Also, quick protip on sound: a quick and clear melodic or plain track, put through an "empty room" type echo effect, can give an excellent intro background to something themed to be set in space or a void. Obviously it has to fit the image, but essentially I can only recommend not to clutter the logo sequence with alot of different sounds, and to try and make them as pleasant to hear as possible.

EDIT: Also, I think it's about time you apologize to Rosh for defending yourself and the company you used to work for, when you were all clearly in error.

 

[bat_boro]

I think it's time for the plane tickets. Go get them now

 

[MLMarkland]

Ironic, no?

No, I think the word you're looking for is "stealthy".

This was the funniest thing in the whole thread and well worth 13 pages.

 

[denizsi]

Is this -really- what RPG Discussion amounts to? Arguing bitterly over the right words to use in discussions about gameplay mechanics?

Wouldn't it be more productive to focus on actual gameplay?

Can't have both?

#1) You are assuming there were only Aliens in the game rather than there being humans, Aliens, synthetics, mechanical obstacles such as security cameras, etc.;

So, one thing out of 10 truly fitting the definition justifies slapping it all under one label?

#2) I've never listed all of the things that were loosely held under the label of stealth, only some of them;

NOW you're coming up with that explanation. Still, it makes it only worse. "No, stealth really is the best term, because there are yet even more non-stealthy things that were categorized under stealth!". Do you even realize how stupid that sounds? (not a real question).

#3) Reaching an objective without being noticed is definitely a stealth or stealth-like behavior and is one of the types of things covered by the general label of stealth in re Aliens RPG.

So, Stealth = means that serves the ends where the ends are reaching your objective without being noticed, therefore ends justify the means?

Let's give it a spin:

Combat = means that serves the ends where the ends are blowing the shit out of stuff and killing everything. Now we can slap combat on everything from crafting (so you can build or modify weapons) to hacking/lockpicking (so you can open containers to get the weapons), stealing (so you can steal weapons), haggling (so you can buy more weapons with less resources) or sneaking (so you can sneak around and do stealth-kills; combat with a twist!).

Investigation = means that serves the ends where the ends are discovering and solving the mysterious plot. Combat (so you can remove the obstacles to your investigation), stealth (so you can sneak past obstacles like guards or sensors that would prevent you from investigating), crafting (so you can better investigate with forensic equipment), athletics (so you can investigate faster and overcome natural obstructions), lockpicking/hacking (so you can reach/access information vital to your investigation).

I'm down with discussing in generic, broad strokes some of the things I worked on in relation to Aliens RPG now that it is well and truly canceled. I'm not going to reveal anything that violates my NDA (ie basically anything that hasn't been discussed already in some other public forum).

Oh noes, we had thought that we could trick you into violating your NDA by revealing shocking twists!

Also, translation: I was only in for the trolling.

I've been willing to do that this whole time (and even said so pretty early on). Instead I've been faced with a never-ending stream of Rosh screaming about why we used the word stealth instead of the phrase "xeno defense system" or "recon & deterrence."

For some people, stupidity is hard to ignore and sheepishly accept.

So choosing not to spend too much time on arguing about internal names for game systems somehow reduces the amount of time you can spend on polish and actul implementation of content? How?

You're completely missing the point.

-Guys, what should we do with axes?
-Call it blunts
-Ok, makes sense.
A classic example of stupidity that didn't cost anyone development time.
Example: Oblivion

-Guys, what should we do with axes?
-Put it together with blunts, and call it something we do know that fits them all and makes sense because we know there are lots of words and words are cool.
-Ok, makes sense.
An ideal example of literacy when you have a proper vocabulary and a functional brain, that didn't cost anyone development time.
Example: Darklands.

Talk about low standards.

To recap:
1. Rosh says that stealth against aliens is stupid.
2. Monty says that the name was chosen poorly, and "stealth" isn't really stealth.

This has to be one of the most idiotic answers I've ever seen.

Fixed.

This is like when USA stole the elections.

Fixed.

 

[MLMarkland]

I'm only going to reply in this thread with puerile jokes and/or memes from here on out.

 

[denizsi]

That pretty much sounds like "I doesn't work because I say so"

Except no. I said exactly what I meant.

Indeed, just like I described:

Stealth = means that serves the ends where the ends are reaching your objective without being noticed.

Combat = means that serves the ends where the ends are blowing the shit out of stuff and killing everything. Now we can slap combat on everything from crafting (so you can build or modify weapons) to hacking/lockpicking (so you can open containers to get the weapons), stealing (so you can steal weapons), haggling (so you can buy more weapons with less resources) or sneaking (so you can sneak around and do stealth-kills; combat with a twist!).

Investigation = means that serves the ends where the ends are discovering and solving the mysterious plot. Combat (so you can remove the obstacles to your investigation), stealth (so you can sneak past obstacles like guards or sensors that would prevent you from investigating), crafting (so you can better investigate with forensic equipment), athletics (so you can investigate faster and overcome natural obstructions), lockpicking/hacking (so you can reach/access information vital to your investigation).

Probably the biggest problem is trying to come up with a mainstream oriented gotta-get'em-all phrase that fails at everything it tries to imply.

Except.... I am not trying to do that. I'm not trying to market anything or sell anything to anyone. I don't give a shit about any of this (other than in the context of trying, perhaps in vain, to stem the tide of utter idiocy that flooded this thread).

I do believe you. I just think that you yourself have been assimilated into mainstream line of thinking pretty well, so I'm sure that seeing something that's so clearly ridiculous comes so natural to you.

 

[MLMarkland]

I do believe you. I just think that you yourself have been assimilated into mainstream line of thinking pretty well, so I'm sure that seeing something that's so clearly ridiculous comes so natural to you.

 

[denizsi]

I'm only going to reply in this thread with puerile jokes and/or memes from here on out.

This is the key to understanding Obsidian, and now Killspace Entertainment.

Just imagine how the course of thread would have changed have I, skyway and Rosh started doing that 5 pages ago.

MLMarkland: WHAA impossible to talk straight to those guys; the moment you reply to anything, they start posting puerile jokes and memes.