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[Deleted member 11480]

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[Malakal]

HoI games are set in the second world war and are all about warfare, with many unit types, frontlines, generals. Everything but war is secondary and plays the role of the background. If endlessly setting up OOBs and planning offensives is your thing then this is the game for you.

Vicky series is all about economy and the industrial revolution. You build your industry to build an empire that will rule the world... markets. Everything else, diplomacy, war is just economy by different means. This series offer best representation of population too.

Crusader Kings series are games set in medieval times. You dont play as a nation but as a dynasty, you win by getting most prestige and piety. Characters matter the most in here, their ambitions, their plots, their stats. Its like Sims medieval edition only your ruler sleeps with his sons wives and murders his infertile wife then sets up an anti pope to create a schism. Then he goes crusading.

Rome is a single game with expansion that is a mix of CK and Vicky set in roman times. There is some population management and some character interactions but ultimately its a rather shallow game. Has very nice civil war mechanics though. Also the only option to play at that timeframe.

Then we have Sengoku which I call Rome in Japan. Its set in the warring states period and plays like simplified CK. Acquired taste I guess, didnt like that one.

Arsenal of Democracy is player-modder turned professional devs game based on HoI2. Its HoI2 but more of it. Lacks many features that HoI3 has but has more than HoI2 ever had. The cold war game isnt near done yet.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well, currently the way Paradox designs sequels is radically different from the old style. Europa Engine (HoI2/Vicky 2/EU2) era was extremely event-driven to maintain historical accuracy, while the new games that use Clausewitz Engine focus on giving the player free reign to buttrape history with a spiked dildo if he so wishes.

Hearts of Iron had the biggest difference between 2 and 3. 3 scales back on the events (a lot, HoI2 had a shitload of preset events dictating the war) and instead focused on making a sprawling war simulator which models supply lines and strategic options in amazing depth and detail. 2 has a slightly more arcadey (by no means arcade-like, it's still very indept) war system that's easier to learn, but it favours large countries more. Arsenal of Democracy and Darkest Hour are modder-made re-releases of HoI2, and if you get one of those get DH, since it upgrades the Europa Engine source code as well, and the best mods (this is the big thing for HoI2 nowadays, as its Kaiserreich and Fallout mods are fantastic) have been ported over and improved for it by the fanbase. But if I had to choose between the two, it'd be HoI3, as it has a better engine and combat (the big thing is that you can't just overwhelm all enemies, a good defensive position can be unbreakable to most attacks even if a small technologically and numerically inferior country holds it).

Anyway, the question you should ask is what kind of strategy do you want. Each of the series focuses on different aspects of gameplay. The best thing to understand is that EU3 is the baseline game now, with other games expanding radically from it in different directions. There's one good reason for using the Clausewitz Engine games tho, and that's the ease and flexibility of modding them yourself.

If you had to pick one Paradox game, it'd be without doubt Crusader Kings 2. It's by far the best overall package, having the best combination of warfare (not as good as HoI3 or HoI2, but better than EU or Vicky) and country management (not as indepth as Vicky, but has none of the derpiness of Inflation and in general is smooth with lots of fun features) with the added giant carrot of the character system that adds something akin to procedurally generated stories to each game (as it provides a cast of characters that change with generations, and events to drive "drama").



Anyway, Sengoku is like a weird prototype of CK2, and it was amusing for a while but it simply follows the same patterns too much and doesn't have as good combat. Supreme Ruler (the cold war game) is mega-slow (and not developed by Paradox, btw) but has a lot of depth (I'd say too much, and of the wrong kind most of the time).

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Vicky series is all about economy and the industrial revolution. You build your industry to build an empire that will rule the world... markets. Everything else, diplomacy, war is just economy by different means. This series offer best representation of population too.

Actually, war is pretty important in Vickys. It's rather just that... Most of the time the Great Power with numerical superiority will crush its opponent in a very unstrategic manner. Sure, you can set up pockets (and you really need to if fighting Great Powers), but it's not much improved from the baseline. The worst part is that a Great Power would *never* struggle against a smaller one in Vicky, so something like British overconfidence against Boers and Zulus or Austrians vs Serbians will never happen because the GP armies will just be larger, better lead and plain better at everything.

In Vicky 2, war is even more important, especially for countries that don't get golden spoon Great Power starts. This is due to the fact that Vicky 2 is a bizarro world where your wars for resources aren't motivated by valuables, but by fucking Coal and Timber. Basically, you think like this: "Gold? Diamonds? Oil? Fuck those, I want COAL!" All the time no less, since those three resources are ludicrously over-important and under-supplied, you basically *have* to have your own personal Coal mass production at all times (same with Timber, and to a slightly lesser extent Iron). This, naturally, screws over most non-initial Great Powers even more, since most Coal and Timber is concentrated for them. A significant part of my modding always goes to trying to fix the ridiculous need for what should be over-abundant resources.

All this makes modding more necessary, since by far the most fun thing in Vicky 2 is playing as a smaller country and fighting your way to the top, but the game is simply designed against you (intentionally or not) most of the time.


Also, newbies be warned, in Vickys the capitalists are retarded and only useful for automation of railroad construction. When it comes to industrialization, DIY state capitalism is superior.

 

[Whisky]

EU3 and CK2 are good beginning ones. I'd have to say for a first-timer that EU3 is the best choice.

EU3 is generally considered the main game in the series and it is relatively easy to pick up and play. It can seem a bit daunting at first, but after a few tries you'll realize it is not too complicated.

CK2 is also relatively simple, especially for combat. The strength of it is the character system which makes almost every game of it new and fun. The main problem with CK2 for new players is that it doesn't really branch out into the other games very well, as the other ones involve a lot more strategy when it comes to combat. For example, soldiers are automatically recruited as time passes, as opposed to the other games in the series where you have to manually recruit units.

 

[PorkaMorka]

CK2 was fun for one game, but it is very easy even with small countries and it seems like it is probably unfixable.

The character system allows for a huge number of tricky ways to obtain claims without having to fabricate them and even to bring land into the realm without the need to fight at all.

But the process of evaluating which heirs to invite and of saving some titles to give them so that they can acquire more land seems to be too complex for a paradox AI to handle.

So the AI is always going to be extra crippled, even compared to the crippled AI of normal Paradox games.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

EU3 and CK2 are good beginning ones. I'd have to say for a first-timer that EU3 is the best choice.

EU3 is generally considered the main game in the series and it is relatively easy to pick up and play. It can seem a bit daunting at first, but after a few tries you'll realize it is not too complicated.

CK2 is also relatively simple, especially for combat. The strength of it is the character system which makes almost every game of it new and fun. The main problem with CK2 for new players is that it doesn't really branch out into the other games very well, as the other ones involve a lot more strategy when it comes to combat. For example, soldiers are automatically recruited as time passes, as opposed to the other games in the series where you have to manually recruit units.

Actually, the great part about CK2's combat is that it's very much simplicity multiplied, and it has the most minor country friendliness outside of HoI series (since leaders and terrain matter much more, and doomstacks aren't often out of control in terms of numbers outside of Mongorians). And of course, the angle where military is tied to how you guide your country's growth is very good, since it can require actual sacrifices if you forego economical improvement in favour of building up your military first. And of course, your choices do somewhat affect army composition too until it reaches the final army composition you have with all upgrades.

 

[Father Walker]

EU3 is boring.

Grab HoI 3 if you want to blow shit up with your panzer divisions. HoI 2 is good, but it's hard to go back if you try the 3rd one. The game is micro-intensive, but I guess it's just fine at times when one wants to embrace his inner aspie.

You might want to try CK 2 instead, if you are more into intrigue and stuff. The game is basically a create-your-own-medieval-soap-opera. You'll spend most of the time in CK 2 rummaging through the medieval version of Okcupid, looking for a hawt wifu for your King/Prince/Baron. When not looking for a wife, you'll probably plot to kill your current, infertile one and/or her midget children.

 

[DakaSha]

As somebody who doesnt hate but has a LOT of complaints with paradox titles I'd say go for ck2. Most polished of the bunch so far and honestly also the most original (and so far fun). All paradox games have terrible terrible warfare AI and warfare is only a secondary role in ck2 making it bearable (maybe this also applies to vicky.. never played them)

People are describing ck2 in unflattering terms here IMO.. making it sound like a boys dollhouse. It is actually quite strategic in gameplay.. only the strategy is less about armies and more about being a con man (and getting away with it)

When is somebody releasing a Mafia mod for ck2 anyways? Would be the best shit on earth. Include all the known gangs and mafias (or just mafias for more ) and you have a great mod

 

[DakaSha]

1) Whether steam is "good" or not is arguable (I use it and dont give a shit). Mods and shit will work. the only thing is that patches are released a few days later or some shit due to steam checking them out first iirc

 

[Raghar]

What about the EU, Vic and CK series? And others games (Arsenal of Democracy, Sengoku, that cold war game, etc)?

Grab HOI2, send Mao some resources, and try to win as the better China. Don't forget to activate capturing science teams.

 

[Muty]

I picked up victoria 2 a few days ago after not playing it for more then an year and I'm having some serious fun with the expansion and the pop demand mod. I should mention that I'm a bit biased because I always liked vicky a lot, but it felt a bit bland after several games(typical for pdox games). Right now with the PDM mod it really feels like there is something to do all the time and the economy is actually meaningful and not the usual random crap.

 

[MetalCraze]

Grab all of them and here's a short breakdown complexity-wise

HoI > Vicky > EU > CK


HoI3 thus far is the most "brainy" Paradox game. Not only economics and research-wise but also combat now plays like a real-time hex-wargame (you can now play a Paradox game for combat too - impossible)

And yeah sequels are always better than previous games in Paradox's case. They constantly add more features and polish interface. Victoria 1 interface is really clunky while in Victoria 2 it's well laid-out for example. With 3D also came the support for modern resolutions.

 

[Cassidy]

I strongly recommend Hearts of Iron series. On the other Paradox games, you'll be begging for the "x declared war on you" message to not appear because of how much combat mechanics suck and are essentially "Bigger stack, if technologically equal, always win, period" in them.

*Edit: More importantly, the greatest reason I recommend far more Hearts of Iron games is that the mechanics in them are much more deterministic and thus success and failure rely 99% over your actions and 1% over random chance, which is much less frustrating IMO, where in other Paradox games random chance plays a much bigger role, specially in combat.

 

[20 Eyes]

HoI > Vicky2 > EU3 > CKII >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sengoku

HoI for being simultaneously great as a war game and as a grand strategy game, Vicky2 for fun nation building. EU3 is a lot of fun and gets bonus points for having a much broader timeframe than the other games which can lead to some interesting, if completely unrealistic, alternate histories. CKII isn't bad, but I don't enjoy controlling a dynasty as much as I enjoy controlling a nation, and the events get repetitive.

Sengoku is a commercial tech demo. Avoid like hell.

 

[clockradiospeakers]

What are the best HoI3 mods?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

DiDay's ICE (aka Iron Cross Edition) if you ask me as it improves presentation of many smaller countries (and adds some curio units and unique tech trees), but I think HoI3 really doesn't need much in ways of mods, maybe the AI enhancement but not much. In general, it'd just need pin-point mods to improve the presentation of each non-major in the game, as vanilla they're all but powerless.

 

[Kane]

All of them.

Also, please enter your stuff in the paradox link in my sig, so you get to play with us codexers in future games that will really gonna happen. Eventually.

 

[GarfunkeL]

HPP is good and is getting update for FTM at the moment.
Trying out AHOI at the moment, if it wants to run or not.

 

[GameOver]

I would recommend Crusader Kings 2. It just gets better and better for me. I enjoy the character driven aspect of the game though. I have never had such crazy conversations before with most other games. Like the time when I assassinated my cousin's children so I could be first in line for succession. There are so many different, fun things to do in that game.

Other than that, I recommend Mount and Blade. It's not exactly a strategy game like the traditional paradox title but it is so much fun. I recommend you give that one a look.

 

[oscar]

I dislike CK2's combat. Too deterministic and number-based (since you have very little guidance over technology).

On flat terrain - Have a number advantage of 25%+ and you will win
On defensive terrain - Have a number advantage of 50%+ and you will win

The sole exception to this is Holy Orders which can fuck up even enemies who outnumber them. I have never once been surprised by the result of a battle in CK2. Contrary to Vaarna I see it as more doomstack-y as unless you are the HRE, Byzantine Empire, France, Seljuks or Shia Caliphate you will not be running into the attrition limit. It also seems faster to siege in a single doomstack than to disperse your forces. If your main army is destroyed than the war is over (unless you can afford mercenaries). Recent patches and the introduction of cultural buildings have relieved some of the monotony and predictability

I prefer the "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy" style of EU3 where tech, sliders, advisers, culture and generals can get you victory even if wildly outnumbered (even small late-game European stacks can thrash large Muslim, Indian, Asian and African armies). If your main army is destroyed, it gives the enemy a window of opportunity to siege in peace, but the war is not over as you can rebuild your forces if you have the time, money and space. So combat is a lot harder to predict the result of (you could win a brilliant victory on one reload and get your ass kicked in another) but you can influence more factors than you can in CK2 (where you can only influence general and terrain).

EUIII to me has more fun combat than any other Paradox title (obviously sans Heart of Iron with its grand encirclements and armoured spearheads).

 

[Norfleet]

In Vicky 2, war is even more important, especially for countries that don't get golden spoon Great Power starts. This is due to the fact that Vicky 2 is a bizarro world where your wars for resources aren't motivated by valuables, but by fucking Coal and Timber.

Haha, yeah, I know, right? I always got a chuckle over fighting over coal. Guess you can stop telling the children of your country to be good, the coal they get for Christmas is good for the economy.

Also, newbies be warned, in Vickys the capitalists are retarded and only useful for automation of railroad construction. When it comes to industrialization, DIY state capitalism is superior.

I don't think it takes much of a guess to figure that the AI will always do something asinine. If the AI was better than you at the game, there wouldn't be a point to playing it.

Well, currently the way Paradox designs sequels is radically different from the old style. Europa Engine (HoI2/Vicky 2/EU2) era was extremely event-driven to maintain historical accuracy, while the new games that use Clausewitz Engine focus on giving the player free reign to buttrape history with a spiked dildo if he so wishes.

Given that I'm pretty sure buttraping history is why we PLAY these games, being that if we merely wanted to passively reenact history, we'd be watching the History Channel instead, this is probably a good thing. Although it seems like now things tend to go TOO off the rails, even when the player isn't involved. It would be sort of nice if history sort of actually did its thing until the player came along with that spiked dildo.

 

[Raghar]

Although it seems like now things tend to go TOO off the rails, even when the player isn't involved. It would be sort of nice if history sort of actually did its thing until the player came along with that spiked dildo.

But that would be predicable and would allow easy win.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Vicky 2 prime minister is thinking colonial policy:

"Fuck Africa, let's invade Manchuria, Korea and Shanxi for COAL!"

EDIT: Also, one thing I've noticed that I need to tweak is to massively increase the effect of Farmer and Labourer encouragement. Having more miners would solve a great deal of the ever-increasing Coal Crisis, but the problem faced is that those bastards just keep converting to Craftsmen ad infinitum, thus your primary production is constantly suffering.

 

[Norfleet]

I suspect a better answer would be to just decrease the quantities of coal demanded to be more in line with the amount of coal actually in the world.