Vapourware Zodiac Legion - X-COM and dungeons

[Galdred]

We added a tutorial to the Demo. It is still a work in progress, and it lacks some functionalities (like being able to see previous messages, and some image integration like we did for the contextual help).

Spoiler

I also revamped the pathfinding algorithm, so the cursor should be more reactive now. It focuses on getting to the destination in as few turns as possible, then minimizing the zone of controls crossed, then using as few MP as possible:

Spoiler

 

[Galdred]

I was wondering about a few things:

What is your opinion about player base? Do you prefer the layout being customizable and used for base defense (ala OG X-COM)? Or do you prefer the layout to be predefined/slightly customizable (like in HoMM and Total War, where you can add some defensive structures, but with a fixed layout)?

The current plan was to have this layout (it would be relatively easy to combine with our randomized map system, as we already combine rooms into dungeons ), but it wouldn't really work well with the idea of having a real castle to defend (here is the prototype of the castle tileset):

Spoiler

It would be possible to mix both approaches by having several "layered skirmishes": the first one on the outer walls, then inside the dungeon complex under it.

 

[Serus]

I can only say, do what you think is best and have time to implement well. I know, i'm not very helpful.
I'd go for the simpler approach but I am a cautious person. If you feel confident you can make it work as in old X-COM where the base (in base defense mode) was the same as the one you were building in strategic mode then go for it. It would be nice to have, but i imagine it wold be somewhat time consuming to implement well and play test. I'd think a more abstract approach would work well too.

 

[Alienman]

X-com base, I loved that aspect personally. But what Serus says.

 

[negator2vc]

The choice depends on the cost of implementing it and testing it.
Both choices are good with the first option been ideal.
If you can afford the cost go for it otherwise the 2nd option is good enough.

 

[The Wall]

Can we have ballista, boiling oil, wolf cages and other kinds of defensive castle weaponry? Sprinkle of Stronghold in this fantasy X-COM Berseker setting

 

[Galdred]

The choice depends on the cost of implementing it and testing it.
Both choices are good with the first option been ideal.
If you can afford the cost go for it otherwise the 2nd option is good enough.

Actually, the cost of implementing 1 would be close to zero, as we already use a system of "slotted map" + randomized preset rooms that could work as well with just swapping randomized rooms for the ones that match the base layout.

Can we have ballista, boiling oil, wolf cages and other kinds of defensive castle weaponry? Sprinkle of Stronghold in this fantasy X-COM Berseker setting

But my issue was actually that it would be hard to combine both (ie, room layout matching facilities built by the player, and defenses). But maybe if it happens over two separate maps (one with exterior defenses, and one inside)?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I can very easily live without base management. I didn't care for it in X-Com, NWN2, or Pillars. I prefer BG2 style strongholds where it's a persistent place to dump loot after you conquer it. Maybe a few follow-up events/quests. I don't enjoy it being a money & time sink.

 

[The Wall]

Can we have ballista, boiling oil, wolf cages and other kinds of defensive castle weaponry? Sprinkle of Stronghold in this fantasy X-COM Berseker setting

But my issue was actually that it would be hard to combine both (ie, room layout matching facilities built by the player, and defenses). But maybe if it happens over two separate maps (one with exterior defenses, and one inside)?

That would do the trick! Inner and Outer Castle defense maps. Maybe even breeding small dragons (chihuahuas among dragons), domesticated and friendly to inhabitants of Castle. Defending Castle as their nest during siege

What's of outmost importance is WALLS. If you invest into high, thiccc, brick, beautiful walls, only attacker with siege engines or very rare wall climbing units could attack you. Have fun using ladders. Only one having fun would be defenders

 

[The Wall]

Can we expect some sort of Kickstarter or Steam Early Access for Zodiac Legion before WW3? By that I mean before end of 2024

 

[Galdred]

Can we have ballista, boiling oil, wolf cages and other kinds of defensive castle weaponry? Sprinkle of Stronghold in this fantasy X-COM Berseker setting

But my issue was actually that it would be hard to combine both (ie, room layout matching facilities built by the player, and defenses). But maybe if it happens over two separate maps (one with exterior defenses, and one inside)?

That would do the trick! Inner and Outer Castle defense maps. Maybe even breeding small dragons (chihuahuas among dragons), domesticated and friendly to inhabitants of Castle. Defending Castle as their nest during siege

What's of outmost importance is WALLS. If you invest into high, thiccc, brick, beautiful walls, only attacker with siege engines or very rare wall climbing units could attack you. Have fun using ladders. Only one having fun would be defenders

I loved defending and assaulting castles in Lords of the Realm 1/2 and in Castle strikes, and it would also be a good use case for a few magic spells. We looked for a design that wouldn't make fighting against winged opponents too much of a disadvantage, because of the large ramparts:
Here is Bellver castle in Spain and the Zodiac fortress:

I'd like to use our modular map system to let the player add artillery or magic defenses on the ramparts.

Can we expect some sort of Kickstarter or Steam Early Access for Zodiac Legion before WW3? By that I mean before end of 2024

However, that would indeed clash with my objective of releasing the game in EA in 2024, so it will have to come later as rampart destruction would be more complex than our current wall destruction.

 

[The Wall]

Allow us to walk through our fully developed castle in peace time, watching lives of all the servants, soldiers, beasts and architectural upgrades. Let it be something added later on

Have you considered becoming one of strategy darlings published by Hooded Horse? Publishers of Manor Lords, Menace, Espiocracy, Xenonauts 2, Old World and many other good titles. You two seem like artistic & business match made in heaven

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Galdred if you go for the customizable castle, would it be easier to just have some facilities as smaller buildings(hut sized, say) in a courtyard inside the walls which could be anywhere in that area, while the castle itself is made of fixed rooms that you will have to fit the facilities in?

 

[Galdred]

Allow us to walk through our fully developed castle in peace time, watching lives of all the servants, soldiers, beasts and architectural upgrades. Let it be something added later on

I'd like to, but that would be quite a few subsystems to add, and I am afraid people won't really use it much, so I cannot promise anything.

Have you considered becoming one of strategy darlings published by Hooded Horse? Publishers of Manor Lords, Menace, Espiocracy, Xenonauts 2, Old World and many other good titles. You two seem like artistic & business match made in heaven

Actually, I have been talking with Hooded Horse founder for a long time. He has been of great advice on quite a few production and marketing related topics, but we haven't moved ahead regarding publishing.

Galdred if you go for the customizable castle, would it be easier to just have some facilities as smaller buildings(hut sized, say) in a courtyard inside the walls which could be anywhere in that area, while the castle itself is made of fixed rooms that you will have to fit the facilities in?

It was something I had been considering. Both systems could work with minimal changes to our map system. However, there is a micro issue of the building walls not being aligned with the castle walls, which could cause some perspective micro issues (basically, the castle walls follow hexagonal directions, while the building walls follow orthogonal ones).