thesecret1
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2019
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Shouldn't have had anything "levelled" at all, period.
ActuallyShouldn't have had anything "levelled" at all, period.
That would really be levelled though, as it wouldn't be derived from player level, but from main quest progression.ActuallyShouldn't have had anything "levelled" at all, period.
Dagoth ur and ash creatures should raise in level and power as game progresses, but vivec and tribunal clerics get weaker
Relative to what? The player? How would you measure progress?Actually
Dagoth ur and ash creatures should raise in level and power as game progresses, but vivec and tribunal clerics get weaker
Like water chipRelative to what? The player? How would you measure progress?Actually
Dagoth ur and ash creatures should raise in level and power as game progresses, but vivec and tribunal clerics get weaker
EDIT please use uesp lol
That would really be levelled though, as it wouldn't be derived from player level, but from main quest progression.
It makes progression far less enjoyable. Even tying it to in-game time would be preferable, anything but the player.That would really be levelled though, as it wouldn't be derived from player level, but from main quest progression.
The idea is that the enemies become stronger over time because the blight spreads. However since time in Morrowind is relative to the player's actions, it makes sense to have the player's level also represent the passage of time. Hence, leveled creatures.
It makes progression far less enjoyable. Even tying it to in-game time would be preferable, anything but the player.
I know how morrowind lists work and the issue is only marginally better than it was in Oblivion. It's the game world revolving around the player. The ideal solution is to not do any of this, but if you really have to, then even day-night cycle is better, as it means the player isn't the reason why dangerous creatures are suddenly spawning everywhere.It makes progression far less enjoyable. Even tying it to in-game time would be preferable, anything but the player.
But there is no real in-game time, time passage in Morrowind (and most RPGs really) is related to the player's actions. The only time you get aside from what the player does is the one that is used for the day-night cycle that is completely independent from your actions, but in practice anything related to that tends to be way more annoying than enjoyable (e.g. all the quests that are like "come back in a day/week/etc" where you're just waiting around watching a progressbar filling). If creature leveling was related to time that progressed independently from your actions you'd have situations where dicking around vs focusing on leveling would affect the types of enemies you face, which would feel clashing with how the rest of the game behaves where real time is ignored.
Also, just to make clear, in Morrowind leveled creatures are not scaled like in Oblivion: the creatures you meet always have the same stats, IIRC a "leveled creature" is really just a list of allowed random spawns and it works as an "unlocking" feature. For example the "ex_ascadianisles_lev+0" leveled creature list contains a "Rat" at level 1 and a "Diseased Kagouti" at level 5. This means that once you reach level 5, this list may spawn a "Diseased Kagouti" - but also may spawn a Rat. In other words, your level affects the creatures you wont see, it doesn't stop weaker creatures from spawning. Your high level character will still come across puny creatures that will die by farting in their general direction.
It's the game world revolving around the player. The ideal solution is to not do any of this, but if you really have to, then even day-night cycle is better, as it means the player isn't the reason why dangerous creatures are suddenly spawning everywhere.
Levelling is not an action. Fulfilling a quest that causes an invasion of enemy country, and thus spawns enemy troops all over the place? That's fine - that's, dare I say, reactivity. But tombs across the world suddenly spawning elite murderzombies because the player jumped in place 100 times, thus raising acrobatics and reaching a new level? That's just pure bullshit.So you don't like how the game's time advances based on the player's actions?
The best solution, yes.Of course another alternative for the specific case of creature spawning would be for it to be static (or randomized with a distribution that doesn't change over the course of the game)
It just comes across as massive bullshit when you enter a dark, mysterious, and supposedly dangerous tomb just to find a couple scamps in there (because your level is too low to face fun enemies, apparently). It's less bullshit than Oblivion because it is more static, which just goes to prove the point: the less fuckery there is with levelled anything, the better.you still come across weaker characters and there is a sense of the world itself progressing as you yourself progress in the game instead of remaining completely static
Levelling is not an action. Fulfilling a quest that causes an invasion of enemy country, and thus spawns enemy troops all over the place? That's fine - that's, dare I say, reactivity. But tombs across the world suddenly spawning elite murderzombies because the player jumped in place 100 times, thus raising acrobatics and reaching a new level? That's just pure bullshit.
It just comes across as massive bullshit when you enter a dark, mysterious, and supposedly dangerous tomb just to find a couple scamps in there (because your level is too low to face fun enemies, apparently).
There's a really powerful quest stage system that would easily allow for this sort of thing. It exists in Oblivion and Skyrim with Oblivion Gate/Dragon spawn chance (0% before Kvatch, 25% after Kvatch, 50% after Dagon Shrine etc.). Just bump up the power level on the relevant enemies after certain quests have been completed.Relative to what? The player? How would you measure progress?Actually
Dagoth ur and ash creatures should raise in level and power as game progresses, but vivec and tribunal clerics get weaker
To be fair, most of the dungeons in Morrowind with good stuff that you would want to be level-gated actually do have static enemy spawns or high level NPCs to stop you. Ibar-Dad always has a Daedroth, two Dremora Lords and a Golden Saint that you need to defeat in order to get Eleidon's Ward, the Daedric Helm and Daedric Battle-Axe, among other items. Anudnabia, the Daedric shrine holding Skull Crusher, always has you face a Frost Atronach at the Level 85 locked door and then a Flame Atronach inside the Forge of Hilbongard. There are always two Winged Twilights guarding the Boots of the Apostle in Berandas, and several of the levelled spawns are set to always be a Dremora or Daedroth, so you can't run in and nab the Daedric Spear at level 1 by just avoiding Scamps. Kogoruhn would probably be a better dungeon if the player was forced to fight the Ash Vampire if they wanted the Daedric Gauntlets, but that sort of qualifies too since he's just down a hallway. A lot of the game's best items are also placed on hostile NPCs that are pretty much all Level 17+.It just comes across as massive bullshit when you enter a dark, mysterious, and supposedly dangerous tomb just to find a couple scamps in there (because your level is too low to face fun enemies, apparently). It's less bullshit than Oblivion because it is more static, which just goes to prove the point: the less fuckery there is with levelled anything, the better.
That's what I've said though – the reason why it doesn't suck as much ass as in Oblivion is because it is more static (ie. strong enemies in some dungeons being ALWAYS there, ie. static instead of levelled). Make it even more static (remove levelled lists entirely) and you'll get an even better experience. Gothic already figured this whole thing out – it's not a problem if a player gets filtered by an end-game enemy on game start. It just means he needs to go around rather than through an enemy, and has something to look forward to beating when he gets stronger. And if the game wants to spawn new enemies, just do it when the main quest progresses (in Gothic, it's when you enter a new "chapter", the new spawns being either wildlife, or thematically appropriate enemies like Seekers or Orcs, their presence explained via story).To be fair, most of the dungeons in Morrowind with good stuff that you would want to be level-gated actually do have static enemy spawns or high level NPCs to stop you. Ibar-Dad always has a Daedroth, two Dremora Lords and a Golden Saint that you need to defeat in order to get Eleidon's Ward, the Daedric Helm and Daedric Battle-Axe, among other items. Anudnabia, the Daedric shrine holding Skull Crusher, always has you face a Frost Atronach at the Level 85 locked door and then a Flame Atronach inside the Forge of Hilbongard. There are always two Winged Twilights guarding the Boots of the Apostle in Berandas, and several of the levelled spawns are set to always be a Dremora or Daedroth, so you can't run in and nab the Daedric Spear at level 1 by just avoiding Scamps. Kogoruhn would probably be a better dungeon if the player was forced to fight the Ash Vampire if they wanted the Daedric Gauntlets, but that sort of qualifies too since he's just down a hallway. A lot of the game's best items are also placed on hostile NPCs that are pretty much all Level 17+.It just comes across as massive bullshit when you enter a dark, mysterious, and supposedly dangerous tomb just to find a couple scamps in there (because your level is too low to face fun enemies, apparently). It's less bullshit than Oblivion because it is more static, which just goes to prove the point: the less fuckery there is with levelled anything, the better.
If I had to change Morrowind's implementation while keepting true to the original spirit of it, I'd probably keep the levelled lists mostly as-is, but always have something like a 1% chance to spawn the more powerful enemies in a Levelled List before they would normally appear, that slowly increases as you level up. I'd probably have more dedicated boss spawns too, even if they were levelled and the only difference was that you could encounter stuff with a -3 or something to the list. That already sort of happens in Red Mountain, where the levelled lists for enemy spawns are two levels lower than elsewhere on the map.Is
Exactly.Levelled lists are just babying the player.
You can't punch final boss at lvl1 in gothic, you can in morrowind
"I'm a God! How can you kill a God?"You can't punch final boss at lvl1 in gothic, you can in morrowind
Arguably, you shouldn't be able to punch the final boss in any RPG :-P.
ok, technically you should, you just should expect to be obliterated :-P
You should have option if it's real open world. If it's closed quest doors it's shitYou can't punch final boss at lvl1 in gothic, you can in morrowind
Arguably, you shouldn't be able to punch the final boss in any RPG :-P.
ok, technically you should, you just should expect to be obliterated :-P
Likely the same as the guy who made an economy based around a low amount of raw coinage in circulation forcing a barter economy and making coins precious for purchasing training thought about the guy who programmed mercantile so any remotely competent character can buy things from merchants and immediately sell things back to merchants for more than the initial cost.I always wondered how did designer who meticulously put grand soul gems in obscure shipwrecks, tel fyr, vivec quest, etc. Felt about designer who put them into leveling lists and are they one person or not