Why do developers refuse to use this formula?

[inwoker]

And btw, why do people respond to Volly? Some kind of tradition? Isnt it a well known fact, that he is a fanboy, retard and troll?

so sayeth wise BethesdaLove

who claimed stupid thing right before, let me quote:

Non-linear games are completely overrated. Especially here on the Codex. Its a nice feature but it doesnt make sense storytellling wise. To make it work, you would have to go extreme lengths and nobobdy has the ressources to do so if they want to make any profit.

I separated most stupid part. To say somebody doesn't have resources is another one that speaks volumes of poster's comprehension.

Btw, Volourn is really consistent and believes what he says. You are not.

 

[BethesdaLove]

Non-linear games are completely overrated. Especially here on the Codex. Its a nice feature but it doesnt make sense storytellling wise. To make it work, you would have to go extreme lengths and nobobdy has the ressources to do so if they want to make any profit.

I separated most stupid part. To say somebody doesn't have resources is another one that speaks volumes of poster's comprehension.

Btw, Volourn is really consistent and believes what he says. You are not.

Show me a literatur piece where they can jump around and still make it a consistent experience where pace is right and you get an emotional lolercoaster.

I am btw consistent but I try not to seem retarded when I'm off my meds... as opposed to somebody else, whos posts I mostly skip if they have more then 3 lines.

 

[Mareus]

"BG is a PC-only game, idiot, and he was talking about PC games"

Tough fucking noogies.

Again, NWN (also PC only) is BIO's most successful game. Dumb ass. Not surprisingly, you conviently ignored that.

And, still, both ME and KOTOR sold basically as much as BG. And, they have done sod epsite being out for many years less. L0LLIGAGZ!

And, oh, you lied as usual. He never mentions PC at all. Idiot.

So most successful = the best

Wow. So Diablo must be better than both Baldur's Gate and NWN put together?

PS. Don't forget NWN was successful thanks to BG.
And Bioware still has credit with most gamers since their games are mostly good.

 

[Ratty]

How come whenever Volourn says something I get an urge to stab people?

Show me a literatur piece where they can jump around and still make it a consistent experience where pace is right and you get an emotional lolercoaster.

That argument makes no sense at all. It is impossible to point out such a literature piece because linearity is an intrinsic property of literary narrative, much like non-linearity is an intrinsic property of RPG narrative. This should be self-evident - since roleplaying by definition necessitates the ability for players to make meaningful choices over the course of the story, it is difficult to imagine a true RPG without at least some degree of narrative non-linearity.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

Non-linearity is overrated, but that doesn't mean linearity is somehow better. Non-linearity doesn't by itself make a game good, as games like Oblivion demonstrate. Actually, if one of a game's features is advertised to be total freedom, I instantly think "probably directionless, boring shit game". Freedom isn't so great when you live in a void.

What I mean to say is that most non-linear games are overrated because they're non-linear, even while it's either completely illusory or incredibly boring.

 

[Serious_Business]

Depends what your definition of non-linear is. You can do everything in one play-through in Oblivion, so I'm not sure if that means it's non-linear.

To make it work, you would have to go extreme lengths and nobobdy has the ressources to do so if they want to make any profit.

That's exactly it, but, nobody has the ressources? How about AoD? Right, I know.

 

[BethesdaLove]

Man... I wrote an epic win post and my mashine crashed... It never did it... never... wtf... it was a sign... Rpg gods please forgive me... but here i go again xD

That argument makes no sense at all. It is impossible to point out such a literature piece because linearity is an intrinsic property of literary narrative, much like non-linearity is an intrinsic property of RPG narrative. This should be self-evident - since roleplaying by definition necessitates the ability for players to make meaningful choices over the course of the story, it is difficult to imagine a true RPG without at least some degree of narrative non-linearity.

The argument makes sense, its just worded crappy.

"(...)non-linearity is an intrinsic property of RPG narrative.(...)" - I would guess that its not but I can imagine that some people have a pretty set definition of rpg and dont consider Baldrus Gate a true rpg. But thats even not the main point. The rpg narratvie is flawed from the beginning because you just cant create a nice flow, pace ala classical tragedy or similar.

Take Baldurs Gate - pretty linear, you go to the mines, you go to the woods, you go to the city. Now would it be a incredibly better game if you could just enter Baldurs Gate and wander aimlessly? Would it be an incredibly better game if the devs put in the extra ressources to cross ref the npc dialogs so they would point you somehow to Sarevok and you could enter the tower and then his hideout from the beginning? I think not.

Take Fallout - as non-linear as you can get. It still heavily uses classical narrative design by restricting information. You go to vault15, stop by in sandyshands, go to the hub, to necropolis, mililtary base, master. That would be the proper way.

Now some retards fap themself to death about it and think that the possiblity of choise where to go first is non plus ultra in game design. I disagree. So in conclusion of this many worded epic poem: Non-linearity quest and/or locationwise is overrated and even can be contraproductive to the narrative.

 

[denizsi]

Freedom isn't so great when you live in a void.

Nice expression. Simple, but nice.

What is your issue with SoZ's travelling system?

He means that anytime decade(s) old game mechanics are reintroduced in a game, devs get undeserved praise; it's what they should've been doing in the first place, instead of dumping solid mechanics for shitty mainstream trends.

 

[Texas Red]

Man... I wrote an epic win post and my mashine crashed... It never did it... never... wtf... it was a sign... Rpg gods please forgive me... but here i go again xD

That argument makes no sense at all. It is impossible to point out such a literature piece because linearity is an intrinsic property of literary narrative, much like non-linearity is an intrinsic property of RPG narrative. This should be self-evident - since roleplaying by definition necessitates the ability for players to make meaningful choices over the course of the story, it is difficult to imagine a true RPG without at least some degree of narrative non-linearity.

The argument makes sense, its just worded crappy.

"(...)non-linearity is an intrinsic property of RPG narrative.(...)" - I would guess that its not but I can imagine that some people have a pretty set definition of rpg and dont consider Baldrus Gate a true rpg. But thats even not the main point. The rpg narratvie is flawed from the beginning because you just cant create a nice flo

w, pace ala classical tragedy or similar.

Take Baldurs Gate - pretty linear, you go to the mines, you go to the woods, you go to the city. Now would it be a incredibly better game if you could just enter Baldurs Gate and wander aimlessly? Would it be an incredibly better game if the devs put in the extra ressources to cross ref the npc dialogs so they would point you somehow to Sarevok and you could enter the tower and then his hideout from the beginning? I think not.

Take Fallout - as non-linear as you can get. It still heavily uses classical narrative design by restricting information. You go to vault15, stop by in sandyshands, go to the hub, to necropolis, mililtary base, master. That would be the proper way.

Now some retards fap themself to death about it and think that the possiblity of choise where to go first is non plus ultra in game design. I disagree. So in conclusion of this many worded epic poem: Non-linearity quest and/or locationwise is overrated and even can be contraproductive to the narrative.

You're completely missing my point. I don't approve of TES like freedom, in fact I think it's harmful to games. I'm talking about the absence of motivation and achievement in Bio/Obsidian games(though MotB had it to a very small degree). An RPG is much more enjoyable if you have the player seeing an objective for which he has to work(by completing at first minor quests) and ultimately rewarded with more power and progression of the story. This totally absent in Bio and Obsidian games where you don't have to take ANY side quests and all enemies are scaled.

Though maybe it's not the developer's fault. Maybe some suit told to make retard friendly games because they think it would sell more.

 

[Darth Roxor]

They are called 'side' quests for a reason.

 

[mondblut]

Storytelling and narratives are completely overrated. Only numbercrunching is real!

 

[Ebonsword]

Take Baldurs Gate - pretty linear...

It's been a while since I played it, but I actually remember Baldur's Gate being fairly non-linear.

Yes, the main quest has to be progressed a certain way, but there are a ton of sidequests in that game that you can do pretty much any time you want.

That's actually one of the things I really liked about it--wandering around the wilderness looking for nifty sidequests.

 

[OSK]

It's been a while since I played it, but I actually remember Baldur's Gate being fairly non-linear.

Yes, the main quest has to be progressed a certain way, but there are a ton of sidequests in that game that you can do pretty much any time you want.

Your definition of non-linear is different than mine. I see non-linear as having multiple, branching paths, not a single linear path with a bunch of optional side quests.

 

[Crichton]

If games where 90% of the content can be experienced at any time but the 10% "main quest" has a set order don't count as non-linear, that's really not going to leave much because even the TES games won't qualify and practically no older games will.

 

[Volourn]

"So most successful = the best"

You are an idiot. 'Most successful' was what the OP brouight up. Dumbass. Not me.

And, no, NWN's success was 'cause of long term buys. It's not like it sold for the first week, and vanished from the charts. It kept getting sales no matter what edition it was.

NWN sold well because it offered what people wanted.

If NWN was jiust successful because of BG fans then why was the Old Skool Codexers (not the new age 'BG is the best wannabe Codexers') amongst the first to buy NWN when they mostly hated BG? Hell, SP Mr. I HATE ALL BIO GAMES! even went out and bought HOTU the second expansion. LMAO

HAHAHAHAHA!

Tool.

 

[BethesdaLove]

"An RPG is much more enjoyable if you have the player seeing an objective for which he has to work(by completing at first minor quests) and ultimately rewarded with more power and progression of the story. This totally absent in Bio and Obsidian games where you don't have to take ANY side quests and all enemies are scaled."

wat? That sound like an jrpg: grind that city emtpy, walk to the next one with sword+1, rinse repeat...
Thats what I dislike about a lot of rpgs. Sidequests are implemented crappy. I tend to start to grind, like talking to every person in a pub...
BG has in my opition one of the best implemetation of sidequests. You walk into the slums pub, somebody talks to you. You walk into the bordello, husband and hooker and wife talk, you jump in. It feels real.
In BG very little is scaled (I personlay dont even know if something is even scaled) but now I see what you are taling about: todays Bioware and Obsidian... -.-
I have that dreamy image of Bioware == BG.

"Storytelling and narratives are completely overrated. Only numbercrunching is real!"

But nobody believes us, dammit...

 

[Galar]

Your definition of non-linear is different than mine. I see non-linear as having multiple, branching paths, not a single linear path with a bunch of optional side quests.

BG1 has some branching path ie some part of the main quests than can be achieved in different way. This is non linear in any way you look at it. It works a bit like that:

    +++     +++
++++   +++++   +++++
    +++     +++