Why are most indie games so dumb-looking/sounding?

[shihonage]

as for the majority opinion here that crpgs (more specifically, a small handful of the oldest ones) are the only good games in the world, I'm skeptical on that point.

Throw away the renderer and explore the balance and complexity of underlying gameplay mechanics. Compare Fallout/Arcanum/Planescape dialogue engine. Look at it carefully, then look at Fallout 3/Skyrim dialogue engine.

You'll start to notice the tip of the iceberg.

Then start paying more attention the world design. Its walls. Reactivity. Atmosphere. How it comes together (or doesn't).

But most people can't get beyond the "ignore the renderer" part. Their perception of the game is tightly intertwined with the 3D models they see before them that represent the entities driven by some shallow code underneath.

Most gaming forums are filled with such people. This is why places like Codex and NMA are a refuge of sanity.

The indie game scene seems to have an abundance of people trying to recapture what games felt like in the '80s and '90s. But, I guess if you care about literally nothing but crpgs, this abundance won't show up on your radar.

I care about games that stimulate me as a person who is no longer 15 years old.

 

[mondblut]

Also in this topic, we learn that Codexers apparently can't agree on what "indie" means.

True that. As far as I am concerned, the meaning is much more specific than just "no massive external funding". Just like it is with "indie music". I'd love to see a fag calling Ildjarn or NON "indie" because, hey, they ain't on Sony Music.

Bloody hell, never get into a discussion on "indie RPGs" then.

That's a newfag term that always made me cringe. It was called "shareware RPGs" back in the days gaming was restricted to upright-walking beings, for fuck's sake.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Also in this topic, we learn that Codexers apparently can't agree on what "indie" means.

True that. As far as I am concerned, the meaning is much more specific than just "no massive external funding". Just like it is with "indie music". I'd love to see a fag calling Ildjarn or NON "indie" because, hey, they ain't on Sony Music.

Bloody hell, never get into a discussion on "indie RPGs" then.

That's a newfag term that always made me cringe. It was called "shareware RPGs" back in the days gaming was restricted to upright-walking beings, for fuck's sake.

 

[visions]

I'd love to see a fag calling Ildjarn or NON "indie" because, hey, they ain't on Sony Music.

http://www.indiepop.co.uk/artists/Ildjarn

 

[ortucis]

"Indie" has always meant a developer who funds his own game development, has his own team (of any size) and works on game without any publisher to dictate the development.

id Software was Indie before being aquired by Zenimax. They funded their own games and only got publishers like Activision to distribute their game at the end of the development.

As far as I can tell only Epic is a true AAA Indie developer left at this point.

 

[mondblut]

You forgot EA, Activision, Sony and Nintendo. None of them depends on the whims of an outside publisher and they fund their games themselves, yay.

http://www.indiepop.co.uk/artists/Ildjarn

Indie AND pop. How cute

 

[convivialist]

I don't understand all this shit about trying to distinguish "indie" as something shitty from "independent" as something legitimate. Isn't "indie" just short for "independent"? Like how there's "independent film." but people sometimes refer to those films as "indies"?

It seems like a bunch of people are having to backtrack their attitude that all indie games suck when they realize that half their favorite classic games were technically indie games. So suddenly it's "uh, no we were talking about indie games, which are made by hipsters, not independent games, which are awesome."

It's the same shit. And like anything else, a lot of it sucks and some of it is good.

 

[Destroid]

As far as I can tell only Epic is a true AAA Indie developer left at this point.

Published by Microsoft.

 

[mondblut]

Like how there's "independent film." but people sometimes refer to those films as "indies"?

Duh, an amateur home child-raping porn is definitely "independent" as in "homemade", "low-cost", "small-team", but you'll be hard-pressed to convince the artfags in the "indie movie" scene that it qualifies.

 

[ortucis]

As far as I can tell only Epic is a true AAA Indie developer left at this point.

Published by Microsoft.

So? Like I said, id Software was Indie as well. They are now owned by a publisher. EA, Nintendo, Sony aren't Indie cause they are publishers and have fuckload of studios working under them (different divisions).

Epic isn't owned by Microsoft. They have a deal with MS to create exclusive content for their shitbox, but MS doesn't own their IP and Epic can choose to distribute GOW to any other platform like they did with first GOW.

 

[hoopy]

It seems like a bunch of people are having to backtrack their attitude that all indie games suck when they realize that half their favorite classic games were technically indie games. So suddenly it's "uh, no we were talking about indie games, which are made by hipsters, not independent games, which are awesome."

Indie and independent are not the same thing. Indie is just quirky hipster artfaggotry.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

God you people are full of shit.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I don't understand all this shit about trying to distinguish "indie" as something shitty from "independent" as something legitimate. Isn't "indie" just short for "independent"? Like how there's "independent film." but people sometimes refer to those films as "indies"?

It seems like a bunch of people are having to backtrack their attitude that all indie games suck when they realize that half their favorite classic games were technically indie games. So suddenly it's "uh, no we were talking about indie games, which are made by hipsters, not independent games, which are awesome."

No, it isn't the same shit. We don't need to know whenever game is "independent" or not. It's not important to us. What is important to us is whenever it's a good game or not. Therefore we don't have a reason to use shitty labels as indie.
It doesn't matter to me who made the game and who funded it as long as I'm having a lot of fun with it. The concept of a indie game is a new shit and a part of the decline. Indie is usually used as a justification of low standards.

Like how there's "independent film." but people sometimes refer to those films as "indies"?

Duh, an amateur home child-raping porn is definitely "independent" as in "homemade", "low-cost", "small-team", but you'll be hard-pressed to convince the artfags in the "indie movie" scene that it qualifies.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO FORGET THE LABELS CAUSE THEY MAKE THINGS WAY TO COMPLICATED LOLOLOLOL

ALL GAMES SHOULD JUST BE NAMED GOOD GAME OR BAD GAME WHY LABEL IT BROS WHY EVEN DESCRIBE IT WE ARE OVERWORKING OUR BRIANS

BROS GET WHERE YOU ARE GOING ABOUT INDIE VERSUS INDEPENDENT BUT JESUS REDEFINING IT TO MEAN INDENPENDENT GAMES YOU DONT LIKE IS JUST A WAY OF REDEFINING WHAT WORDS MEAN SO THAT YOU HAVE WON YOUR INTERNET ARGUMENT

LABELS CAN HELP MAKE SENSE OF WHAT YOU ARE BUYING AND WHAT YOU ARE GETTING FOR YOUR MONEY JESUS CHRIST EVERYONE WANTS TO KNOW THE DEVELOPER OF THE FUCKING GAME BEFORE YOU BUY IT

USING THE WORD INDEPENDENT TO GAMES NOWADAYS IN CONTEXT WITH A DESCRIPTIIN OF THE GAME WILL GIVE YOU A CLUE TO WHAT YOU WILL BE GETTING JUST LIKE SAYING A GAME IS FROM EA OR BETHESDA OR BLIZZARD OR JEFF VOGEL WILL GIVE YOU CLUES AS WHAT THE GAME IS LIKE

BROS DONT BE AFRAID OF WORDS YOU CAN USE THEM TO DESCRIBE LOTS OF THINGS

 

[hoopy]

It's not a new idea that "indie" means a specific kind of movie/music/game, and not just "independent." We didn't invent that distinction just for this thread.

 

[zeitgeist]

USING THE WORD INDEPENDENT TO GAMES NOWADAYS IN CONTEXT WITH A DESCRIPTIIN OF THE GAME WILL GIVE YOU A CLUE TO WHAT YOU WILL BE GETTING

And so will using the word indie? The problem is when people start using them interchangeably which adds to the confusion. Compare this to the music world, where there are even labels like indie in name only, which are used to describe bands who sound/look/cater to the same demographics as indie bands but aren't actually independent.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

BRO FORGET THE LABELS CAUSE THEY MAKE THINGS WAY TO COMPLICATED LOLOLOLOL

ALL GAMES SHOULD JUST BE NAMED GOOD GAME OR BAD GAME WHY LABEL IT BROS WHY EVEN DESCRIBE IT WE ARE OVERWORKING OUR BRIANS

No. The difference between labelling a game as a platformer and labelling a game as independent is that the first tells us something about mechanics of the game while the latter is completely irrelevant.

LABELS CAN HELP MAKE SENSE OF WHAT YOU ARE BUYING AND WHAT YOU ARE GETTING FOR YOUR MONEY JESUS CHRIST EVERYONE WANTS TO KNOW THE DEVELOPER OF THE FUCKING GAME BEFORE YOU BUY IT

So, buying the same game from an "independent" (whatever it means) developer and a "non-independent" developer would somehow be different?

USING THE WORD INDEPENDENT TO GAMES NOWADAYS IN CONTEXT WITH A DESCRIPTIIN OF THE GAME WILL GIVE YOU A CLUE TO WHAT YOU WILL BE GETTING JUST LIKE SAYING A GAME IS FROM EA OR BETHESDA OR BLIZZARD OR JEFF VOGEL WILL GIVE YOU CLUES AS WHAT THE GAME IS LIKE

Jeff Vogel made Exile, Geneforge and Avadon. Sorry, his name doesn't tell me anything what I will be getting.

 

[MetalCraze]

Duh, an amateur home child-raping porn is definitely "independent" as in "homemade", "low-cost", "small-team", but you'll be hard-pressed to convince the artfags in the "indie movie" scene that it qualifies.

Mondblut tells it how it is

And so will using the word indie? The problem is when people start using them interchangeably which adds to the confusion. Compare this to the music world, where there are even labels like indie in name only, which are used to describe bands who sound/look/cater to the same demographics as indie bands but aren't actually independent.

Coincidentally "indie" music (especially so called "indie-rock") is the worst kind of music I've ever heard.

When you make shit you just label yourself "indie" like you are trying to make something different from that evil mainstream

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO SO THERE IS NOTHING REALLY IN COMMON WITH JEFF VOGEL GAMES CMON YOU ARE STRETCHING HERE IS A HINT YOU LIKELY WONT BE GETTING A THIRD PERSON COVER SHOOTER WITH EPIC CUTSCENES AND CELEBRITY VOICE CAMEOS

BRO YES A GAME FROM EA OR FROM A SMALL INDEPENDENT DEVELOPER WILL GENERALLY HAVE DIFFERENCES

IT IS ONE LABEL AMONG MANY THAT WILL GIVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT YOU WILL ACTUALLY BE GETTING

FOR EXAMPLE I BET THE COMBINATION OF ARTISTIC INDIE PLATFORMER WOULD MAKE MOST OF YOU IGNORE THE GAME AUTOMATICALLY PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS WHAT YOU ARE RAGING AGAINST

BROS I GET THE DISTINCTION OF INDIE VERSUS INDEPEDENT AND INDIE IS STILL FURTHER BUTCHERED TO MEAN ONLY THE GAMES YOU DONT LIKE

BROS I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE LABEL OF INDIE OR INDEPENDENT IN AND OF ITSELF WILL NOT TELL YOU EVERYTHING ABOUT A GAME BUT EVEN IF THE WORD IS JUST USED IN THE MARKETING YOU WILL GET INSIGHT INTO WHAT THE GAME MAY BE GOING FOR PROBABLY ESPECIALLY IF IT BENING USED DISENGENIOUSLY

 

[Trash]

No you don't. That's the saddest part.

Do you retards even realise how full of it you are?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Jeff Vogel who calls himself "indie" to justify the general shittiness of his games is in no way an "independent" developer. He's a guy that consistently dumbs down his games more and more because people tell him that complexity is bad. How is it "independent"?

Here is an example of a EA game.

."Indie" is a Bad Word. Like "nigger".

 

[Machocruz]

FOR EXAMPLE I BET THE COMBINATION OF ARTISTIC INDIE PLATFORMER WOULD MAKE MOST OF YOU IGNORE THE GAME AUTOMATICALLY PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS WHAT YOU ARE RAGING AGAINST

Few "indie" creators have the experience, skill, or resources to make a game that is artistic AND is a well crafted platformer. You think a couple of amateurs in their studio apartment can produce something like Yoshi's Island? The team that made Super Meat Boy consisted of a professional programmer, and an independent comic artist. That the former had more professional experience is likely why the platforming is of higher quality than the art, and why it's the only indie platformer that is worth a damn.

 

[MetalCraze]

Super Meat Boy is not a good game either

First it starts off promising but then you realize that completing each extremely small level requires nothing but pressing the right buttons and the right times as envisioned by developers turning a game into one massive QTE. Also it has infinite lives so you keep jumping at a wall until it breaks.

Compare that to platformers of 20 years ago or so made by professionals - big varied levels and something like 3 lives motherfucker eat shit

 

[Trash]

But then the tards I mean probably think KOTC is shit too.

Indie games is nothing but a broad label that lumps everything together which is made independently by one or a few people. And yes, like all forms of entertainment the mayority will be shit with only a few pearls in the mix. To throw everything from 15 cent i-store apps to KOTC together and label it all like shit is fucking retarded though. And that's what you lame shits are doing. So is trying to make your own defenition of the term indie so you can then call it shit. It's not cool, it's not edgy and it sure as hell is not elitist. It's merely retarded. Then again, so is skipping past Blackadder's excellent short post in order to shout more shit. And lo and behold, most doing so are once again of the graphic whore variety as well. Well, fuck me. Fucking newfag morons declining this place like there is no tomorrow. What else is new?

 

[hoopy]

Compare that to platformers of 20 years ago or so made by professionals - big varied levels and something like 3 lives motherfucker eat shit

I'd like to see these indies make a platformer that's as good as SuperFrog. Shit, they can't even make a game that looks as good, despite having better tools, more colors and higher resolutions.

SuperFrog was made by just five people, or four if you discount the person who only made the intro animation. Team17 also continues to be an independent developer.

 

[Destroid]

As far as I can tell only Epic is a true AAA Indie developer left at this point.

Published by Microsoft.

So? Like I said, id Software was Indie as well. They are now owned by a publisher. EA, Nintendo, Sony aren't Indie cause they are publishers and have fuckload of studios working under them (different divisions).

Epic isn't owned by Microsoft. They have a deal with MS to create exclusive content for their shitbox, but MS doesn't own their IP and Epic can choose to distribute GOW to any other platform like they did with first GOW.

If Microsoft is coughing up the money to develop, they aren't making in independent games. Just like Obsidian don't make indie even though they are not owned by a publisher.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

blobert dropping megatons up in this bitch.