What the Hell These Game Developers Did with Your Kickstarter Money

[Infinitron]

SPECIAL NOTE: BACKING ON ANY LEVEL DOES NOT INCLUDE A COPY OF THE GAME. THERE IS A FAQ ITEM AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST EXPLAINING THE REASONING!

You have to love their reasoning:

The quickest, and basically only path to success, on the Android and iPhone market places is with sales. If we gave the game away, our #1 asset which is our fans, would be gone on day one. We have done our best to offset that by giving you every piece of DLC we ever produce for free - so you've got that going for you.

"We can't give you the game in return for your donation, because then you wouldn't buy our game when it came out."

This reminds me of the Hardcore Tactical Plagiarism game, where the stench of a scam is so strong it's hard to say the donors are being tricked.

I think the point here is that they need the fans to buy the game to have a chance of quickly making it onto the Top Ten Most Popular App list or whatever. Once you're on such a list, many more people will see and buy your game.

 

[almondblight]

No doubt that's the reasoning behind that. But it doesn't they're still saying "we can't give you the game because we need you to buy it when it comes out." Not only do they need the money now to finish development, they're going to deprive donors of the normal reward because they don't just need donors spend money on this now, they need them to spend money on it when it comes out. If they can't see the problem with that, then they're incredibly dense (which, judging by their other posts, seems to be the case).

 

[sgc_meltdown]

I read an ios game developer's post on reddit that was a very frank tell-all of how his company basically made shitloads of dummy accounts to rate up his product and purchase it to drive the popularity up and keep it on the charts where everyone could see it

and of course to make the accounts legit they rated other games and purchased them as well for each account, which apparently causes apple to not give a shit and puts those accounts in the clear

it worked very well and they got back what they spent on that and more

just a new age marketing protip for my bros looking to get into that scene

 

[Destroid]

My personal favourite was the 6k on music. I mean, how the fuck?

Also, the kickstarter/amazon fees are reasonable. Especially since the whole thing started mostly revolving around stuff like this. I doubt they'd keep afloat if they only took $2.50 for projects like that.

What exactly would drive them under? All they do is approve applications and host videos. Sure they will get a lot of traffic now, but the more traffic they get the more money they get.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS CONFESSION HERE I KICKSTARTED WASTELAND 2 FOR THE LOWEST TEIR I FEEL DIRTY A LITTLE BUT YOU BROS ARE RIGHT THAT ONE SEEMS LIKE IT WILL COME OUT

 

[xilo3z]

10% spent on PAX East is another stupid move, go ahead and market a vaporware! And 10% taken out by Kickstarter, that really hurts too. Those fees are ridiculous, is it really that much? It should be 1% - 2%.

Actually a 10 % fee for a business mediator is standard fare, in many cases can be 20%.

Where? Because even Wall Street only asks for 2-4% when acting as a financial intermediary.

Even 2-4% seems pretty high. Well I only know the workings of intermediaries for over the counter/tailor made instruments such as swaps and such, and in those case the intermediaries are literally working off basis points from each side. Not sure what other markets of intermediates charge, but it's pretty obvious 10% is just preposterous. I can see more business friendly "kickstarters" popping up soon just to correct this market flaw of kickstarter.

Anyway the real hilarity here - In the what we'd do different they said they would eliminate this entry: Attorneys, start up fees, CPA - $4000... Now...Let's check that- Raise 36k, end up in 50k debt. The problem? THOSE ATTORNEYS AND THAT CPA!... right.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO THE 10 PERCENT WILL BE WORTH IT IN ADVERTISING NOW THAT WASTELAND 2 SHADOWRUN DOUBLEFINE ETC HAVE MADE IT NEWS

KICKSTARTER IS TRENDHY AND THAT IS WHAT YOU PAY FOR PEOPLE ARE INTO IT AND IT HAS CAPTURED AN AUDIENCE AND YOU PAY FOR THE FUCING AUDIENCE

IF MOTHERFUCKERS COULD RAISE 30K ON THERE OWN THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT HELL NOW YOU ARE RIDING ON NXILE AND DOUBLEFINES AND OTHER COATAILS FUCK THE ADVERTISING MIGHT BE WORTH THE FEE ALONE

 

[crakkie]

They kickstarted six months ago, long before doublefine started the million dollar trend.

For what it's worth, game looks pretty awesome.

 

[Renegen]

10% spent on PAX East is another stupid move, go ahead and market a vaporware! And 10% taken out by Kickstarter, that really hurts too. Those fees are ridiculous, is it really that much? It should be 1% - 2%.

Actually a 10 % fee for a business mediator is standard fare, in many cases can be 20%.

Where? Because even Wall Street only asks for 2-4% when acting as a financial intermediary.

Even 2-4% seems pretty high. Well I only know the workings of intermediaries for over the counter/tailor made instruments such as swaps and such, and in those case the intermediaries are literally working off basis points from each side. Not sure what other markets of intermediates charge, but it's pretty obvious 10% is just preposterous. I can see more business friendly "kickstarters" popping up soon just to correct this market flaw of kickstarter.

Anyway the real hilarity here - In the what we'd do different they said they would eliminate this entry: Attorneys, start up fees, CPA - $4000... Now...Let's check that- Raise 36k, end up in 50k debt. The problem? THOSE ATTORNEYS AND THAT CPA!... right.

Thanks for registering, it's the types of voices we need :p. Swaps are terribly commoditized it has to be said, and trillions get created so the basis points are alright. When underwriting they still make a few percentage points there on the other hand and I added to that a good leeway knowing that Wall Street these days is pretty good at taking money from their muppet customers, not that I'm very up to date on pricing strategies.

I also see some new kickstarters popping up the larger the projects become. As projects grow ever larger, the people asking for money will instantly have credibility because they will probably be established studios and established teams. This will reduce on the fraud and insecurity about giving money to strangers and the kickstarter "brand" won't be as useful. Kickstarter really only works to leech 10% off from seedy indie projects that ask for $5000. That's what I hope at least.

 

[Destroid]

The game looks extremely similar to FTL.

It's not always 10%, that's the highest figure for very small donations (<$10). It is 8% (5% Kickstarter, 3% Amazon) for bigger donations. For comparison Indiegogo is 7% (they take 4%, their money processor is 3%).

 

[ArcturusXIV]

$20,000 Hookers
$16,000 Blow

Fixed.

 

[evdk]

$20,000 Hookers
$16,000 Blow

Fixed.

Is this tax deductible?

 

[ArcturusXIV]

Only on the first try!

 

[Excommunicator]

A disaster. Just about every item specified on the list is overpriced, and every justification short of reality and good decision making.

An attorney to help you manage $30k? Ask your parents for help if you really think you can't manage, kids.

Anyone who doesn't work out the economics of the "prizes" they are offering before committing to it is someone with no common sense. 50% of the total budget for the whole game going to PRIZES? Not even slightly realistic, and you could have worked that out if you had done even a little bit of research and estimation. The bit about the "we can't let you buy the game now because we want you to buy it later" is so laughably nonsensical.


Still, even with all these mistakes, it will pale in comparison to the inevitable Kickstart who doesn't deliver anything at the end.

 

[Excommunicator]

I expect they will eventually deliver this game in some form or another. Forward is the only way out of their mess, and ironically now with all the publicity they are getting from their poor money management, they will probably be able to make quite a bit back on the game.

 

[Burning Bridges]

10% spent on PAX East is another stupid move, go ahead and market a vaporware! And 10% taken out by Kickstarter, that really hurts too. Those fees are ridiculous, is it really that much? It should be 1% - 2%.

Actually a 10 % fee for a business mediator is standard fare, in many cases can be 20%.

Where? Because even Wall Street only asks for 2-4% when acting as a financial intermediary.

Even 2-4% seems pretty high. Well I only know the workings of intermediaries for over the counter/tailor made instruments such as swaps and such, and in those case the intermediaries are literally working off basis points from each side. Not sure what other markets of intermediates charge, but it's pretty obvious 10% is just preposterous. I can see more business friendly "kickstarters" popping up soon just to correct this market flaw of kickstarter.

As long as there is no competition, they can practically charge anything they want, and for that 10% is entirely not unreasonable, only a bit high.
IndieGoGo charges already somewhat less, but is no real competition yet, besides from sounding like a swinger site for 20 year olds.
If the market really grows, all services could offer rebates until they are eventually in the 2-3% range.

 

[Norfleet]

Yup, some business plan and calculating skills should be essential keys to don't make a mess. Kickstarter is a bit more complicated than selling self-made lemonade in the street.

Actually, selling self-made lemonade in the street is quite complicated, seeing as it's illegal. Apparently, there's all sorts of food-service regulations involved you have to deal with, permits, etc. You cannot just plop down a table and a piggy bank and start selling lemonade off the street.

Incidentally, the -50K figure still doesn't add up. Apparently they think we can't do math, because if you add all those expenses together, they still have a positive balance. How'd they blow an additional 54K and NOT HAVE IT SHOW UP AS AN EXPENSE?

 

[Elwro]

That musician is also a good businessman

 

[Norfleet]

The musician, honestly, got paid a fair deal. The music was okay, and the price seemed fair enough. That part of the budget isn't even that questionable. The question is...how is the budget negative when every expense listed comes in under the given budget? WHERE'S THE REST OF THE MONEY? All of the expenses listed were fair. It leaves unanswered how, given that they made a $4K profit without even selling anything, how exactly they're -50K down.

 

[Destroid]

I imagine the -50k is the amount they have so far gone into debt working on the game, after they used up the 4k which obviously won't last long covering a couple of guys living expenses. 50k credit would be pretty easy to get spread over a few credit cards, or a mortgage or car loans or whatever.

 

[Johannes]

Bunch of guys don't know how to run a business, not like there's anything so special about that - and doesn't have to mean they won't release, after all it's their best chance of managing this debt.

Doesn't look like a scam, just incompetence.

I realized a very simple fact. I have no qualms to put trust in older guys from 30 or better, 40 yrs upwards, but when I see a half kid, it needs a lot more to convince me. Be it that the kid is very smart or has some kick-ass technology or artwork to show.

I wouldn't really put too much more weight into just being older. They might be more competent on average, but more competent to pull off a fraud as well. Facepalm-worty stories of failed business ideas and awful management are by no means limited to young people. Especially when dealing with things like Kickstarter, and current gaming market which are quite different of what you had in the past, age might not correlate with know-how that much in the end.

Of course if they're someone with a real track record it's a different thing (and well, pure game developing history does not make a businessman), but that's not directly related to age.

Well, Tortured Hearts is a good example.

 

[taxalot]

The world did not wait for kickstarters for people to run their company and their money into the ground.
Ion Storm Dallas was born (and dead) before Kickstarter was even an idea.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I realized a very simple fact. I have no qualms to put trust in older guys from 30 or better, 40 yrs upwards, but when I see a half kid, it needs a lot more to convince me. Be it that the kid is very smart or has some kick-ass technology or artwork to show.

I wouldn't really put too much more weight into just being older. They might be more competent on average, but more competent to pull off a fraud as well. Facepalm-worty stories of failed business ideas and awful management are by no means limited to young people. Especially when dealing with things like Kickstarter, and current gaming market which are quite different of what you had in the past, age might not correlate with know-how that much in the end.

Take Schafer, Fargo, Weisman as examples. Perhaps I am getting old too, but for me only these guys give me confidence, that they really know what they are doing.
Of course there are many younger guys who already have enough charisma. The asian looking guy of FTL for example, looks extremely intelligent.
Older guys have the experience. The "young man" has enthusiasm, but it's often just a straw fire.

 

[Johannes]

It's quite easy to be their age and still be a no name in every respect that counts.

 

[Burning Bridges]

It's quite easy to be their age and still be a no name in every respect that counts.

That's not what I meant. Of course there are older guys with nothing to show in respect to credibility, but they do not count.