World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - VTMB sequel from The Chinese Room - coming Fall 2024

[Vulpes]

That's not true. "Bloodlines 2" implies connection to another "Bloodlines" title (the one without a number in its title). WoD setting can be connected by "Vampire: The Masquerade" part. Just look at Redemption, which was before Bloodlines; same setting, different stories. So using "Bloodlines" without any real connections between the two is simply false marketing strategy.

I already recognize it as a lame marketing ploy and I think trying to force a connection by bringing back old characters would be disastrous. Just look at Fallout 3. According to your own logic, shoehorning the Brotherhood of Steele, Harold and the Enclave into it was both a necessity and a good thing given its name.

VtMB2 died with the Hardsuit version.

No, it died with Troika and their planned expansion set in Las Vegas. A true follow-up to Bloodlines would either continue the story of the original protagonist (which Troika intended) or have you play as a different fledgling being puppeteered by Caine. Mitsoda's idea of playing a shit-ass thinblood was dumb and gay. A huge step backwards from being an 8th generation neonate who went against creatures like a wereshark hitman, a Sabbat Archbishop and a Kuei-Jin Ancestor. I'm not looking forward to being a depowered elder with some talkative retard in my head either, but at the very least playing a character with a high power ceiling has some appeal to it.

I saw Damsel in the intro myself, by now it is well know that Mr. Damp was supposed to be Vandal Cleaver and I know of another much more powerful potential connection, although I don't know if this even ended up in the version that HSL managed to make before they were kicked out.

Damsel looked like she aged 20 years between the two games and her presence in a Camarilla-run city doesn't make much sense when LA is currently a warzone between the Anarchs and the Second Inquisition. If that's the kind of treatment they planned to give to the old characters, I'd rather they weren't brought back at all.

Morrowind wans't bad in the first place. And I say that as not a fan.

Yeah, sure, slowly walking through dungeons to conserve your stamina is actually good game design, as is having to use exploits to get any enjoyment of the gameplay. Who needs engaging melee combat when you can just press left-click over and over again? Blocking? The game already does that for you automatically! But my favorite part? Having to use magic as a rogue because the sneaking and pickpocketing skills don't fucking work.

 

[Atlantico]

For example, does the sentence "stalking from rooftops" mean a fully three-dimensional city where I can climb onto the roof of any building, or is it just a cool thing that I will only see in a cutscene?

Probably not even a cutscene. Does it really look like Dumpsterphyre is going to have even one city zone with civilians, streets, stores, enterable buildings, etc.? The first street of Santa Monica is an unattainable dream for TCR.

They're re-using Hardsuit's maps and covering them in snow. That's the whole point of still having the game take place in Seattle.

I was told the scrapped all of Hardsuit's assets and started from scratch.

 

[Wesp5]

I was told the scrapped all of Hardsuit's assets and started from scratch.

That is definately not true, they already showed a HSL Nosferatu model in their trailer.

 

[Atlantico]

I was told the scrapped all of Hardsuit's assets and started from scratch.

That is definately not true, they already showed a HSL Nosferatu model in their trailer.

That can't be true. Roguey repeatedly affirmed that the assets were all scrapped and Chinese Room started from scratch

 

[Old Hans]

this game is going to bomb so hard and no one will ever talk about it again

 

[Tyranicon]

this game is going to bomb so hard and no one will ever talk about it again

If it bombs it'll probably mean the end of Bloodlines franchise.

People, specifically fans of the first game, will talk about it forever. It'll be ME Andromeda all over again.

 

[Wise Emperor]

Im still wondering what game they are trying to make. What it tries to be?

Who's the audience? It doesn't appeal to oldfags, it doesn't target modern aRPG audience who likes Souls, it doesn't look like it will be openworld exploration, the grimdarkness feels forced and goofy. I cant imagine that the The Chinese Room(i think there's no coincidence that they chose studio with that name) presents development progress to Paradox execs with straight face saying "it will be next best shit after BG3 in RPG".

I wonder how often Paradox debates mercy killing the project, I can't really imagine they are happy with the shown result.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

If it bombs it'll probably mean the end of Bloodlines franchise.

People, specifically fans of the first game, will talk about it forever. It'll be ME Andromeda all over again.

Bloodlines itself doesn't need to be a franchise, this idea that gravediggers need to be puppeteering familiar imagery and iconography in our face like jingling keys or it "just wouldn't be the same" is retarded.
If people are so thirsty for this IP that they're degrading themselves to the level of remaking Redemption in Skyrim so they have something to play then I don't think there will be a considerable wait before we see an earnest attempt at something good by another dev.

 

[The President]

I don’t think anyone doubts they’ll be more games in this IP, it’s just the earnest attempt at something good that is seriously in question. So far the shift from what we saw from HSL to TCR is big and they don’t feel the same, like at all.

They’ve definitely reused quite a few assets, though they changed a bit. The Nosferatu asset is the same though he is called Tolly in the TCR version while this character was called Samuel in the HSL demo.

 

[Tyranicon]

Bloodlines itself doesn't need to be a franchise, this idea that gravediggers need to be puppeteering familiar imagery and iconography in our face like jingling keys or it "just wouldn't be the same" is retarded.
If people are so thirsty for this IP that they're degrading themselves to the level of remaking Redemption in Skyrim so they have something to play then I don't think there will be a considerable wait before we see an earnest attempt at something good by another dev.

If you make something good, people are gonna want seconds. That's just how it is.

And for many years, nobody seriously raised the issue of a sequel until Paradox came along. But trying to capture what made VtMB good in the modern era is a huge challenge, and with the development hell we've seen, basically impossible.

I think there is a very strong market for a vampire RPG (obviously, since I'm making one), but it won't be in the VtM IP. Look at it. Seriously look at the games they're making, the tabletop game, who's making the decisions, etc.

Only thing in its future is more mediocre CYOAs.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

Im still wondering what game they are trying to make. What it tries to be?

It's pretty clearly a boilerplate action RPG in the vein of nuDeus Ex/Dishonored, there are two major issues with this:

1. They are an entire decade behind industry design trends and expectations.
2. They are clearly not capable of matching the already rudimentary scope of these titles let alone iterating upon them, and are stuck with a product that will not compare favorably to these titles, contemporaries, or even the original game.

 

[J1M]

I was told the scrapped all of Hardsuit's assets and started from scratch.

That is definately not true, they already showed a HSL Nosferatu model in their trailer.

That can't be true. Roguey repeatedly affirmed that the assets were all scrapped and Chinese Room started from scratch

Yeah, but I explained how all public statements are marketing lies so it shouldn't be news to anyone that Roguey was wrong.

 

[Atlantico]

I was told the scrapped all of Hardsuit's assets and started from scratch.

That is definately not true, they already showed a HSL Nosferatu model in their trailer.

That can't be true. Roguey repeatedly affirmed that the assets were all scrapped and Chinese Room started from scratch

Yeah, but I explained how all public statements are marketing lies so it shouldn't be news to anyone that Roguey was wrong.

I'm just rubbing it in

All in good spirits my dear Roguey

 

[Skinwalker]

No, it died with Troika and their planned expansion set in Las Vegas. A true follow-up to Bloodlines would either continue the story of the original protagonist (which Troika intended) or have you play as a different fledgling being puppeteered by Caine. Mitsoda's idea of playing a shit-ass thinblood was dumb and gay. A huge step backwards from being an 8th generation neonate who went against creatures like a wereshark hitman, a Sabbat Archbishop and a Kuei-Jin Ancestor. I'm not looking forward to being a depowered elder with some talkative retard in my head either, but at the very least playing a character with a high power ceiling has some appeal to it.

A high-generation neonate who somehow successfully diablerized an elder and can sometimes hear that elder's voice in his/her head is the perfect scenario. TCR is truly retarded for getting it completely backwards.

 

[Roguey]

I was told the scrapped all of Hardsuit's assets and started from scratch.

That is definately not true, they already showed a HSL Nosferatu model in their trailer.

That can't be true. Roguey repeatedly affirmed that the assets were all scrapped and Chinese Room started from scratch

Yeah, but I explained how all public statements are marketing lies so it shouldn't be news to anyone that Roguey was wrong.

I wasn't wrong. Atlantico insists that I said something I didn't and has been griping about it ever since.

 

[scytheavatar]

Im still wondering what game they are trying to make. What it tries to be?

It's pretty clearly a boilerplate action RPG in the vein of nuDeus Ex/Dishonored, there are two major issues with this:

1. They are an entire decade behind industry design trends and expectations.
2. They are clearly not capable of matching the already rudimentary scope of these titles let alone iterating upon them, and are stuck with a product that will not compare favorably to these titles, contemporaries, or even the original game.

Most importantly

3. nuDeus Ex/Dishonored are dead franchises, the demand for boilerplate action RPG simply isn't there.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

Most importantly

3. nuDeus Ex/Dishonored are dead franchises, the demand for boilerplate action RPG simply isn't there.

A new Deus Ex was smothered in the crib by Embracer and I largely blame Zenimax for Arkane's inability to repeat the success of the original Dishonored.
As far as interest in these types of games go there is the obvious behemoth of Cyberpunk 2077 and the more modest success of the System Shock remake to gesture towards.

 

[Child of Malkav]

A new Deus Ex was smothered in the crib

They cancelled it after 2 years of work.

Arkane's inability to repeat the success of the original Dishonored

Arkane is dead after Prey. Wolfeye Studios is hopefully the next one.

 

[Jenkem]

When this releases you are all going to look like fools.

 

[Caim]

When this releases you are all going to look like fools.

More like I'll look like a corpse.

Because I've died of old age by then.

 

[Atlantico]

I was told the scrapped all of Hardsuit's assets and started from scratch.

That is definately not true, they already showed a HSL Nosferatu model in their trailer.

That can't be true. Roguey repeatedly affirmed that the assets were all scrapped and Chinese Room started from scratch

Yeah, but I explained how all public statements are marketing lies so it shouldn't be news to anyone that Roguey was wrong.

I wasn't wrong. Atlantico insists that I said something I didn't and has been griping about it ever since.

Honestly, I don't remember what was said verbatim anyway, so maybe you were right all along.

The discussion is buried somewhere in the forum database, but J1M and I seem to have similar recollection of events. Probably confirmation bias on our part

 

[Raghar]

Most importantly

3. nuDeus Ex/Dishonored are dead franchises, the demand for boilerplate action RPG simply isn't there.

A new Deus Ex was smothered in the crib by Embracer and I largely blame Zenimax for Arkane's inability to repeat the success of the original Dishonored.

Frankly they are crap company.
When a company wants to make a new game, it should be something they want to play and it's a lot better than what they would make if it was only 8 hours 5 days per week job. Look Pharaoh was 8/5 job for CA, it's crap. Rome I was something they made to create a real like feeling of movie Roman era battles. They were successful because they bite the bullet and went trough massive grievances to make pixel models to move like REAL units.

Dishonored was one of their best efforts. But, its gameplay was gimped by theirs dumb decision to not create also a nice ending for high chaos assassination gameplay. And frankly they heavily copied from English literature, thus we don't know if they ARE creative or not.

Dishonored 2 was so so, it was likely deigned to allow play as young cute female, but they also gave choice to play as a Dumb Big Smelly male.

Basically companies that are making games for money are making:
1. polished crap.
2. buggy crap.
3. unfinished crap.

Mix of self-educated and PhDs in 90s gave us System Shock and other gems.

 

[Ol' Willy]

A new Deus Ex was smothered in the crib by Embracer

Good riddance

 

[The President]

A high-generation neonate who somehow successfully diablerized an elder and can sometimes hear that elder's voice in his/her head is the perfect scenario. TCR is truly retarded for getting it completely backwards.

I agree, being a neonate vampire who diablerized a very old elder is a huge missed opportunity. Having their voice in your head telling you things and trying to manipulate you while you’re trying to survive as an ignorant vampire could really be something.

 

[Tyranicon]

A high-generation neonate who somehow successfully diablerized an elder and can sometimes hear that elder's voice in his/her head is the perfect scenario. TCR is truly retarded for getting it completely backwards.

I agree, being a neonate vampire who diablerized a very old elder is a huge missed opportunity. Having their voice in your head telling you things and trying to manipulate you while you’re trying to survive as an ignorant vampire could really be something.

I wouldn't be surprised if something similar somehow ended up being the twist. Can an elder personality instantly assert itself at the moment of diablerie and forget what its own body looks like?

Maybe Phyre has mental illness.