Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shadowfang]

As varied as underground game can be.
If the old Fallout has enough variety for you, you will be fine with Underrail's.

 

[Zdzisiu]

How varied are the environments in Underrail? I haven't had time to play the demo, but from the images and videos I've seen, most areas (with three or four exceptions) seem similar in design and atmosphere. As much as I like everything I've read and seen I would become bored with a relatively constant design or tone.

Suprisingly varied for a game that takes place completly underground. You have the natural caves, the human build tunnels in lower levels, the occasional natural river or lake, the human settlements of various sizes and designs from a typical bunkier like structure of SGS to a shantytown like Junkyard and Camp Hathor. On the upper levels of underrail you get a typical metro tunnels plus stations and locations such as a mall or various other small shops. There is also the very decorated and kind of baroque in a sense Institute of Tchort. And finally, there are the deep caves that I believe are not yet in the game, but are rumoured to be jungle-like and quite a change of scenery.

And if you had a boner while searching the Glow and other underground science/military complexes in Fallout, you will have plenty of them in Underrail too.

 

[da_rays]

How varied are the environments in Underrail? I haven't had time to play the demo, but from the images and videos I've seen, most areas (with three or four exceptions) seem similar in design and atmosphere. As much as I like everything I've read and seen I would become bored with a relatively constant design or tone.

Here is a few examples of places i've stumbled across, while still having in mind that it take place in the underground :

- Starting Zone , which is a base with 9 diff. levels. ( duh )
- Junkyard settlements
- Abandon labs
- Nightmarish cavern mazes ( Land ( underland ?) mine/booby traps included )
- Huge ass city with everything that comes with it.
- Various metro/train/underground bunker.

And thats just with my 20ish hour playthrough. And there is like 15ish place I noted down that need some investigating scavenging. So yeah , its pretty varied , lots of optional place to go to and die.

So yeah......go get it!

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Can you upload the save so I can take a look?

http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=697.0

Also the whole save at http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=03187220921961964957

 

[epeli]

Blackmill see for yourself, it's probably better than listening to how others feel about it. Here's a random selection of couple of dozen areas.

Spoiler

None of the demo areas included. I think the demo had about this many areas in total. The current version has about 440. That should give you an idea of the visual and level design variety. IMO the ambient sounds and music also do a good job at setting the atmosphere for different locales, but YMMV.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Styg I have to say, I'm still not convinced of this psi trade-off. I haven't had much reason to use a booster yet and I'm still able to dominate in battles using psi abilities. If anything I feel like you've taken the challenge out of maintaining boosters and crafting out of the psi equation while barely (seemingly) touching the issue you claim to have touched re: combat. Pretty bummed about this, honestly.

 

[polo]

Hmm, boosters were easy to get after the starting poberty last time i played. I don't know, we may call Joshua Sawyer for help

 

[epeli]

Styg I have to say, I'm still not convinced of this psi trade-off. I haven't had much reason to use a booster yet and I'm still able to dominate in battles using psi abilities. If anything I feel like you've taken the challenge out of maintaining boosters and crafting out of the psi equation while barely (seemingly) touching the issue you claim to have touched re: combat. Pretty bummed about this, honestly.

Can I try to convince you? With the old system, I half-assed my way through the game with a naked character who had nothing but maxed will and psi skills. Never took any damage. It was kinda boring. Can't do that anymore, so I would say the new system is a step in the right direction. The changes made psi builds more powerful in the very early game, but they're no longer completely broken when used to their best effect.

Maintaining boosters really wasn't a challenge after the start. Well, maybe if you were a scrooge and never bought any? Otherwise you had mountains of boosters after the first mission. And you never had to use boosters in combat nor worry about psi costs. Now you do.

But I agree that psi regen is too high for all sorts of psi builds. It should be heavily toned down and tied to Will to make any sense. Something like 0 base regen plus 2 for each point of will above 4.

 

[AetherVagrant]

Is there any way to boost regular movement speed? Decided to sack up and try an "oddities" playthrough before final release. but dat slogging bro

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Make some better boots, bruh. Try the Tabi.

But I agree that psi regen is too high for all sorts of psi builds. It should be heavily toned down and tied to Will to make any sense. Something like 0 base regen plus 2 for each point of will above 4.

I wouldn't be opposed to no regen during combat. Then the boosters would actually serve some kind of purpose.

 

[da_rays]

Gotta give it to you guys , last playtrough was metathermic psychie /w crossbow and just got myself in Core City. I feel like a god. Havent touched the 2 others psy school , but with a decent psy headband and a good armor with some psy beetle part , I think i've used around 3 , maybe 4 psi booster. Also havent encountered massive gang to deal with, but the psy regen need to be downed a bit/JoshSawyering or whatever its called now . I would like to hear about build with 2 or 3 psy school if anyone cared to make one since last update~

 

[LizardWizard]

PoE/Bloodborne keep collecting dust because can't stop replaying Underrail with a new build. Amazed how massive the game has become since my original playthroughs back in 13'.

I'd say my only real complaints are respawns seem a bit fast and I'm drowning in monies without mercantile.

 

[Smashing Axe]

Is there a hardcap on how high an attribute can go? Are there ability checks in the game that test if you have an attribute over 10? It's tempting to just up other, lesser useful ability scores on level up rather than my main just in case I miss an interesting dialogue option. Also kudos to you Styg for not including so boring an attribute as charisma.

 

[Sykar]

20 is the theoretical maximum for attributes but not reachable with the current level cap.

 

[I_am_Ian]

Has styg talked about any plan to rebalance the economy?

 

[Blaine]

balance

Please go away.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Well, if he's talking about how easy it is to get rich reallllllly quick...he's got a point.

 

[Blaine]

That describes virtually every RPG I've ever played featuring some kind of an economy, is most apparent when a player already knows how to work the system, and doesn't really apply to the first third of the game.

Look, RPG characters are essentially Vikings: They slaughter, loot, and pillage everything in sight. How long do you expect them to stay poor? There's give and take in game design, too. Rarely is a design decision a pure net positive.

If the economy were truly "balanced" around what expert players can do, and/or what dedicated players who relentlessly go on meticulous scavenging and selling/shopping trips can do, then novice and intermediate players who aren't as dedicated will find scarce loot and shitty items everywhere they look. That's not really sound game design, because players should be excited about loot they've worked hard to earn, which in my view is much more important than "balance."

I prefer to err on the side of easy riches after the first half of the game.

 

[AetherVagrant]

I decided to try out the oddities system, and enjoying it so far. I was anxious about other's complaints of finishing the first zone without being able to level up, but about 30min in I got level 2 and maybe 1.5 hours total for level three, neither looking for nor avoiding combat completely (doing a psi/stealth build)
and I'm digging how it encourages exploration for exploration's sake, and not just trying to 100% each map by looking for each last rathound.
I still want a run button for out-of-combat.
It's like if Jeff Vogel had learned from and improved with each game.

 

[Blaine]

It's like if Jeff Vogel had learned from and improved with each game.

This statement alone places you in the top tier of the 2015 vintage.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Well, if he's talking about how easy it is to get rich reallllllly quick...he's got a point.

The worst thing about the way that acquisition/economy works in Underrail is that it can (depending on how hard you're trying) grind up against verisimilitude. I don't intend to be dismissive of the problem this can represent, but pragmatically speaking it is infinitely more important to the enjoyment/quality of the game that e.g. psionics find the right feel. Currency in Underrail really is a kind of background element, serving more as world fluff - a part of the story and atmosphere - than as part of some essential economic mechanism.

Because of the barter system ("I'll buy X, Y, and Z only"), currency is more often than not going to be a mechanically unimportant concern. The only way to change this would be to dial the numbers back to the point where the feast becomes famine. Suddenly, every scrap of value is essential. Exploration is driven by economic necessity rather than adventurous spirit. The beautiful oddity system will feel eerily similar to the (by comparison) ugly classic XP system. This is the most important pitfall to avoid.

As it is now, currency comes easy to anyone that tries even a little bit. If merchants happen to have desirable goods (not always the case, of course), players can reasonably be expected to come up with the funds to procure those goods. Do I think the buy/sell numbers could be tweaked to better serve the atmosphere/tone of the world? Sure, I think that prices could be increased by 10-15% and trade value decreased by the same amount. That might grant the illusion, for a bit longer, that currency has that stark weight to it that the rest of the world does. But the next gentleman might say 40-50%, and the next might say 3-5%. And really, it truly is going to be a subjective matter to what degree each individual player wants to feel "starved" or to what degree they want to grind up against the hard facts of life in the underrail.

In the end, we need to be honest with ourselves and admit that the fashion in which it currently works serves the game pretty well. Currency in Underrail is just a way for the developer to avoid awkwardly explaining why merchants just give away sometimes-prized items to the player.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I don't think it's that complicated. Right now Stygian coins are like gold. I think we could cut each "reward" in half and be doing fine.

 

[Doktor Best]

That describes virtually every RPG I've ever played featuring some kind of an economy, is most apparent when a player already knows how to work the system, and doesn't really apply to the first third of the game.

Look, RPG characters are essentially Vikings: They slaughter, loot, and pillage everything in sight. How long do you expect them to stay poor? There's give and take in game design, too. Rarely is a design decision a pure net positive.

If the economy were truly "balanced" around what expert players can do, and/or what dedicated players who relentlessly go on meticulous scavenging and selling/shopping trips can do, then novice and intermediate players who aren't as dedicated will find scarce loot and shitty items everywhere they look. That's not really sound game design, because players should be excited about loot they've worked hard to earn, which in my view is much more important than "balance."

I prefer to err on the side of easy riches after the first half of the game.

The problem is not that you get super rich as you progress, the problem is that you cant really spend the money as far as ive heard. styg has to add some ways to burn massive amounts of money for some kind of gain (high qualit equipment, base, some kind of guild you can pump money into)

Money is a ressource. A ressource system always has to provide a possible situation where you lack of this ressource, else its just artificial and serves no purpose. Like a Manabar that always stays filled enough for you to cast spells.

 

[Blaine]

You guys have no idea what you're talking about. The economy's fine.

Guys, I think I have a shopping problem.

That's 32,655 Stygian Coins and 3,196 SGS Credits, for a total value of 1,011,610.

My stash is probably worth at least that much, possibly more.

 

[epeli]

You guys have no idea what you're talking about. The economy's fine.

Guys, I think I have a shopping problem.

That's 32,655 Stygian Coins and 3,196 SGS Credits, for a total value of 1,011,610.

My stash is probably worth at least that much, possibly more.

Before this economy discussion goes any further, I have to point out that the latest version has a really useful goldsink which would use nearly all of those charons in just 3 tries.