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Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

Ravn7

Educated
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
94
Location
Warsaw, Poland
Techland has big fanbase of console-only gamers. People in Poland were swapping their kickstarter pc version for console version and buing consoles for this game.
Consoles popular in Poland. That's the funniest thing I've read today :D

Of course the are some console players and maybe sometimes they can get loud but in a country, where average pay is like 450-550 $ per month among young adults (25-40) and a new game costs 45 $, that's just absurd.

Most prices are lower accordingly (that's the reason why CDPR could make a game as big as TW3 for only 70 mln $) but games are imported IPs (you need to pay developer a standard price), so their prices are the same as in western Europe.
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2015
Messages
822
Location
Isometric realm
Because the cloud save function doesn't work (although it's written on the store page that is has the option) I was looking at the manual, maybe to find that awful cursor when exiting an area. It's not there of course and reading through the pages I found out that the manual is very lacking in pages for an RPG.
They don't tell you what the currency, not until the end of the manual, but they describe that Oddities can be sold for them.(page 17/41).
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
1,866,227
Location
Third World
No idea but it's doubtful, foci are supposed to be unique.
Ok, hopefully someone else that played more can answer me about foci then.

As far as I saw, only the 3 foci you have available after finishing the clock quest in Sagus are the only ones in the game. You don't get more from advancing in the game or from companions, that's all you get in my experience. They're also just mere boost to a type of gameplay, so I don't know what all the fuss is about. Are they something interesting in the PnP?
Better than those 3 at least, e.g https://numenera-seeking-the-past.obsidianportal.com/wiki_pages/list-of-foci
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,493
Location
Djibouti
Are they something interesting in the PnP?

Suffice to say, from the 44 pages that make up the character creation in the numederpa player's guide, foci take 22 pages. In comparison, there are 18 pages for character types (glaive/nano/jack) and 4 for descriptors (intelligent/stealthy/charming, etc).
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,022
Pathfinder: Wrath
The character creation screen assumed only two genders. A thought crime at best. This is an interesting thing to bring up though, they've made them so alike, almost a copy of each other, why give the option of gender at all? Make xir androgynous. See, this is what pisses me off, they are so moderate in their extremes when it comes to art, making everything bland and samey. If you want a genderless utopia, then create one, it might somehow become art if you try hard enough. Not sarcasm.

Even Romanticism has examples of this. There was a novel in which both main characters, a man and a woman (gasp! I assumed xeir genders!), fall in love with an androgynous being (I think it later turns out to be an angel, but don't quote me on that). I have to find which book it was.

To continue my little rant, this is the book I was talking about - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraphita

This wishy-washy mediocrity everyone is going for (including Mizhena) is tiresome and goes nowhere. The writers are obviously trying to tube-feed agendas down your eye sockets, which is grotesque and unsubtle, even un-art-like. The character designs for Numanuma is a further example of not going in hard enough. Like Lurker King pointed out, the visual designs of the characters are superficial, while this is true to an extent, it illustrates the coherency and strength of the themes they are going for. That is why TNO was a leathery, scarred man, as opposed to a semi-androgynous nothingness. Let me give an example of popular culture - Hellraiser. The designs of the cenobites clearly underline a disdain for normalcy, a path to the extremes of humanity. They wouldn't work out so well if they were simply normal men and women.

I can actually give a counter-example to this - It Follows. It's a movie where a force assumes the form of normal people and stalks the main character. It works well, because it's framed in such a way as to convert normalcy into fear. This depends on the context, Hellraiser wouldn't work with normal people. Exactly how PS:T wouldn't work with the cast of DA:I. The themes are too strong for such mediocrity to thrive. I don't actually know where I'm going with this, what I do know, however, is that character designs tell us a lot, both about the work we are consuming and the writers themselves. And that not being extreme enough cheapens extreme themes, like that of suffering. What Numanuma's designs are telling me is that it's bland and cardboardy.
 
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Elim

Augur
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
330
Project: Eternity
I think games like that are no longer for me. Played PS:T four or five times and loved it. Loved all Infinity Engine games and so on, too.

I play games for gameplay. I backed this game. And I backed PoE. And I did not like them that much. The beta should have told me everything.

You want know what I play most of the time?
Battle Brothers, Aurora, ToME, Kerbal Space Program, Dwarf Fortress and Paradox games, sprinkled in with some Combat Mission.

All games with a heavy focus on mechanics.
Shame it took me so long to realise this.

Another 40 bucks down the drain.
 

Ezrite

Learned
Joined
Nov 20, 2014
Messages
205
This is what we get these days, folks. PoE, Age of Decadence and Numenera. You rather want to play ME: Andromeda or Skyrim?
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,070
No idea but it's doubtful, foci are supposed to be unique.
Ok, hopefully someone else that played more can answer me about foci then.

As far as I saw, only the 3 foci you have available after finishing the clock quest in Sagus are the only ones in the game. You don't get more from advancing in the game or from companions, that's all you get in my experience. They're also just mere boost to a type of gameplay, so I don't know what all the fuss is about. Are they something interesting in the PnP?
If that is all that would be sad. Focuses are actually the most interesting part of character building in Numenera system.
In PnP they are most representative of Numenera. One of the most memorable would be being able to turn yourself into half machine, being able to become a Telekinetic master, eventually floating everywhere, becoming IceMan from Xmen, or having such control over lightning you can transport yourself and your allies by turning yourself into lightning. Even some warrior focuses like becoming a werewolf like shapeshifter were pretty interesting. Rogue/Jack focused ones like being able to phase through walls or having unnatural control over other people where you could turn your character into a sect leader easily were also pretty cool.
If they took all that and turned them into 3 passive bonus Focuses after they talked big about how they would take some of the passive bonus ones from PnP (like the archer focused one that would get different kinds of arrows as active abilities) is total and pure :decline:

Also being able to get companions to share their focus with you would be very PST like where you got companions to share their class with you or give you bonus spells and stuff.
 
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Urthor

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
1,875
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I feel like the point I really realised this was a bad turn based system was when I was alt tabbed watching entire youtube videos in the time it took my turn to come around in a Crisis, just like Wasteland 2. Something about InExile makes them think that having enemy turns that last for 5 minutes is good game design, I don't know what it is but whoever came up with that one can be flipping burgers at McDonald's plzthxty
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
No idea but it's doubtful, foci are supposed to be unique.
Ok, hopefully someone else that played more can answer me about foci then.

As far as I saw, only the 3 foci you have available after finishing the clock quest in Sagus are the only ones in the game. You don't get more from advancing in the game or from companions, that's all you get in my experience. They're also just mere boost to a type of gameplay, so I don't know what all the fuss is about. Are they something interesting in the PnP?
In the PnP, they're 1/3 of your character, and can have a profound effect on what you are, ranging from "who is literally on fucking fire" ("Bears a Halo of Fire") to "who is practically the hulk with claws" ("Gazes into the Abyss"). It determines whether you're Batman or Magneto, a musketeer, witch-doctor, cyborg, rock-thrower, or a hovering drone. Since I've taken the decision to run this generally-accepted-to-be-cancer system in the near future, I've actually started (WIP) compiling a list of PnP foci here. Note that this covers an extremely wide selection and the GM is meant to police what's available depending on the game.

And out of these, we get "You're better at talking", "You get bonuses to stealth", and "You don't suck at defense". The worst thing is that two of those, Breathes Shadow and Brandishes a Silver Tongue, are actually interesting in the PnP book. The former basically turns you into a Shadewalker or Shadowdancer type deal, while the latter is written as to sound like you're literally poetry incarnate - it's not just that you're better at talking, it's that you're basically Hitler if he'd been a poet instead of a world savior.

And while I have only played extremely little Tides of Numenera so far (swamped in school work), I cannot imagine that Foci can be shared. Each CNPC has a unique Foci, and even in the PnP it's repeatedly emphasized that only a single player should ever have a specific Foci. There's lots of Foci (in the PnP) that have abilities that affect your allies, but that's not the same, and there's a very particular, specific foci ("Forges a Bond", which is not in ToN) that allows you to share Foci with someone you've made a life-bond with. And since we know that you only get to pick one out of three foci that are thrown at you as part of a quest in ToN, I wouldn't get my hopes up - even though Forges a Bond would be a very appropriate Foci for the game (if worked into CNPC dialogues).

All in all, ToN is based on a system that is mostly recognized as being "not that great", yet it still fails to do it justice, even on it's strongest points, in addition to not delivering something that's been described as being part of the core game during the Kickstarter pitch. Foci being an afterthought in a Numenera game is not OK.
 
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Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
After all the tryhards in PoE, there is nothing wrong with having a Minsc like character. In 20 years people will still remember Minsc while "Eder who?"

There is everything wrong with a character like Minsc. Bioware NPCs are cartoons. I agree that we should be thankful that they add more personality to NPCs in cRPGs, but there ways of doing this. FO2 characters have also a lot of personality, without being tryhards. The solution to bad tryhard writing is not Bioware, that's an extreme.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
being able to surpass skillchecks with your companions is stupid as hell, though I got rid of those early.

But if they have the proper skills and "work for you", that's what would happen, no? I was also very critical of the idea that you can burn your stats to beat checks, but Deep Ocean mentioned in the other thread that this makes your skill checks more active, and I have to agree.
 

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