Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[hiver]

Stating that something is boring, (in this case intellectually and cognitively defected too), you retards, is not a request to get entertained.

 

[Carrion]

Not that I disagree (I also prefer turn-based combat, for the record), but two arguments regarding BG:

1. Playing Baldur's Gate, with it endless hordes of respawned kobolds and gibberlings, in turn-based mode could make the game really tedious, while RTWP was quick and managable. This does not mean that RTWP is better because it is faster, this only means that RTWP is more comfortable to use for this kind of repeatable encounters.
2. There are some things that are very difficult to simulate in D&D-like turn based system. For example, hit&run tactics. In BG, I could send my mage invisible towards enemy lines, fireball the living shit out of them and escape before they could retaliate (or even target and follow him). Try to do something like this in ToEE. Of course there is a lot of things You can do in ToEE that You cannot do in BG, but this only means that both systems have their advantages over the other, not that one is clearly superior, as You're trying to say.

Those are mostly side effects of RTwP, though. The trash mobs are there because the quickness of RTwP demands it, or else the pacing of the game would suffer. If the game was turn-based and thus slower-paced, I doubt you'd see as many kobolds or gibberlings. "Hit & Run" / kiting is an exploit more than anything else.

 

[evdk]

 

[karfhud]

I think it's illegitimate to defend RTwP because it was not the RTwP which had anything to do with what was good about BG's combat. It was the encounters and the ruleset.

Obviously nobody wants turn-based with shit encounters or rulesets. I don't even know why this is mentioned. However, if there were two games which were identical in every way except one had turn-based combat and one had RTwP, the turn-based one wins by default, because turn-based is simply the superior way of handling combat.

Not that I disagree (I also prefer turn-based combat, for the record), but two arguments regarding BG:

1. Playing Baldur's Gate, with it endless hordes of respawned kobolds and gibberlings, in turn-based mode could make the game really tedious, while RTWP was quick and managable. This does not mean that RTWP is better because it is faster, this only means that RTWP is more comfortable to use for this kind of repeatable encounters.
2. There are some things that are very difficult to simulate in D&D-like turn based system. For example, hit&run tactics. In BG, I could send my mage invisible towards enemy lines, fireball the living shit out of them and escape before they could retaliate (or even target and follow him). Try to do something like this in ToEE. Of course there is a lot of things You can do in ToEE that You cannot do in BG, but this only means that both systems have their advantages over the other, not that one is clearly superior, as You're trying to say.

That's exactly why I reckon TC will fit perfectly in TToN. I just don't see generic encounters against generic, goblin/orc-like mobs in Numenera; I anticipate that when it indeed comes down to combat, it's against a memorable, formidable foe. Combat should have some meaning, add to the storytelling premise, instead of just bashing through rats for XP. Going along these lines, tactical combat is spot on, because it adds to this feeling of a unique, engaging fight.

 

[MicoSelva]

Those are mostly side effects of RTwP, though. The trash mobs are there because the quickness of RTwP demands it, or else the pacing of the game would suffer. If the game was turn-based and thus slower-paced, I doubt you'd see as many kobolds or gibberlings.

Do you suggest that turn-based combat systems in games automatically prevent those games from having trash mobs?

"Hit & Run" / kiting is an exploit more than anything else.

Is it difficult to implement hit&run in D&D-like turn-based game, or not?

EDIT:

That's exactly why I reckon TC will fit perfectly in TToN. I just don't see generic encounters against generic, goblin/orc-like mobs in Numenera; I anticipate that when it indeed comes down to combat, it's against a memorable, formidable foe. Combat should have some meaning, add to the storytelling premise, instead of just bashing through rats for XP. Going along these lines, tactical combat is spot on, because it adds to this feeling of a unique, engaging fight.

Yes, I would like nothing better than meaningful, tactical (preferrably turn-based) combat in TToN, but I also hope it will not be one of the dominating gameplay aspects of the game.

 

[CappenVarra]

no true scotsmann RTwP party-based RPG

 

[MicoSelva]

Even ignoring all IE games, what about Darklands?

 

[General Maxson]

Even ignoring all IE games, what about Darklands?

Well combat certainly isn't one of its stronger suites...

 

[MicoSelva]

Not saying it is, just wanted to debunk the ass-pulled statement above.

 

[Carrion]

Do you suggest that turn-based combat systems in games automatically prevent those games from having trash mobs?

I'm suggesting that the trash mobs were put there on purpose with RTwP in mind.

Is it difficult to implement hit&run in D&D-like turn-based game, or not?

I don't know, depends on how closely you want to follow the D&D rules and what you mean by hit & run. If you're talking about stuff like an invisible mage fireballing the shit out of enemies and making a quick escape, not really.

 

[Rake]

1. Playing Baldur's Gate, with it endless hordes of respawned kobolds and gibberlings, in turn-based mode could make the game really tedious, while RTWP was quick and managable. This does not mean that RTWP is better because it is faster, this only means that RTWP is more comfortable to use for this kind of repeatable encounters.

I love IE combat. But from what we know about Numenera, it won't have attrition by hordes of enemies, so that advantage of RTwP is useless for this game.
If you have only hand-picked and difficult encounters(aka semi boss fights), TB is just as good. I don't think that you will have to clear any dungeons in T:ToN

 

[MicoSelva]

Do you suggest that turn-based combat systems in games automatically prevent those games from having trash mobs?

I'm suggesting that the trash mobs were put there on purpose with RTwP in mind.

Is it difficult to implement hit&run in D&D-like turn-based game, or not?

I don't know, depends on how closely you want to follow the D&D rules and what you mean by hit & run. If you're talking about stuff like an invisible mage fireballing the shit out of enemies and making a quick escape, not really.

I believe, you are wrong, but as I don't think I can convince of you of that, I will not continue this argument any further, because of pointlessness.

EDIT:

I love IE combat. But from what we know about Numenera, it won't have attrition by hordes of enemies, so that advantage of RTwP is useless for this game.
If you have only hand-picked and difficult encounters(aka semi boss fights), TB is just as good. I don't think that you will have to clear any dungeons in T:ToN

I will repeat one more time: yes, please! No trash mobs + good turn-based combat for TToN, and I will be happy.

 

[tuluse]

Is it difficult to implement hit&run in D&D-like turn-based game, or not?

Cast invisibility, move into range, click end turn.
Cast fireball, move back to your own team, click end turn.

 

[hiver]

Better yet, start sneaking, using "sense" skill to get a wider range of view then the opponents, who use their own skills to counteract - try to spot you. Pass the checks, move smartly, environment bonuses add, get in range - get a few more APs as reward, chug the fireball, score a critical surprise attack, that leaves all living enemies stunned for a few seconds - which translates to extra bonus move for you.
(of course if Ai was worth anything enemies should react appropriately ... but yeah.. thats high fantasy)

(optional XP for silently taking out some guards first - by use of other more indirect magic)

 

[Excidium]

Is it difficult to implement hit&run in D&D-like turn-based game, or not?

Cast invisibility, move into range, click end turn.
Cast fireball, move back to your own team, click end turn.

:shittymagicrules:

By the way isn't he talking about if BG was turn-based? In BG Spellcasting takes the whole round and cast time modifies your initiative, even assuming you'd cast invisibility beforehand and get surprise it would still be a supremely retarded strategy because after the fireball you'd just be sitting there waiting to be gang-raped.

 

[tuluse]

:shittymagicrules:

By the way isn't he talking about if BG was turn-based? In BG Spellcasting takes the whole round and cast time modifies your initiative, even assuming you'd cast invisibility beforehand and get surprise it would still be a supremely retarded strategy because after the fireball you'd just be sitting there waiting to be gang-raped.

Casting meant you couldn't take other actions in that round like attack or drink a potion, but you were free to move as soon as the animation ended.

 

[Excidium]

That's true, although that's more related to the way they have those personal rounds set up where movement isn't really taken into consideration. In TB you wouldn't be able to cast and then move.

 

[tuluse]

In 3E you can.

 

[Excidium]

Yeah, and it's p. dumb.

 

[Infinitron]

Torment for iOS confirmed: https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=665738415&mt=8

 

[Sensuki]

LOL

gud revenue increaser for minimal effort

 

[buzz]

I know we're supposed to be all about "master race PC gaming", but I think that point and click RPGs like Torment would be suited pretty fine for smartphones and tablets. Did anyone play Baldur's Gate EE on ipad?

 

[Sensuki]

Unfortunately I can't look at it, I'm one of those few people left in the first world that does not have a smartphone (or tablet, laptop etc)

 

[CMcC]

Torment for iOS confirmed: https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=665738415&mt=8

This is actually the entirety of the game. I hope you all enjoy it.

 

[CMcC]

gud revenue increaser for minimal effort

Nah, it's free.

I wrote it! So now I'm a...published writer? lawl

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present our new lead designer: THOMAS BEEKERS. (sorry, ksaun and Adam Heine - he brought that Dutch efficiency to the title!)