Prosper The weekly/yearly what is a RPG discussion DISCUSS!!!

[Applypoison]

As with anything, there's the technical-driven definition or the bellyfeel-driven definition.

"Any game with a diversified, well-balanced mix of economy, class progression, combat tactics and exploration is RPG enough for me" (what someone like CRPG Addict might say)

"Any game that pulls me in to the point that I can project myself into the protagonist, is RPG enough for me" (what someone working at Blizzard or Bioware might say)

Pretty general, but I think that going beyond that is pointless, since at the end of the day, it's just a term used for associative logic.

 

[HiddenX]

Delterius
I completely agree - Skyrim is a (sandbox) action CRPG, but it is a CRPG.
It it not possible to max out every skill (at least 'til level 70).
One major weakness is that you can be master of all guilds at once. But if you really want to roleplay you can always restrict yourself, wear only leather, learn only fighting with bows, and join only the ranks of the thieves guild in one playthrough.
The complete freedom of what to do next is Skyrim's strength and weakness at the same time.

 

[HiddenX]

Skyrim is too easy to bash, here's something different:

A) Deadly Premonition,
B) Pathologic,
C) Saints Row 3.

Those are or aren't RPGs?

I played none of these games

 

[set]

You can never roleplay in Skyrim because you always have the ability to be a RogueWizardWarrior - you can cast Light while wearing leather armor and wielding a massive two-handed hammer. You can sneak around with your giant hammer and bash people's face in and steal all their shit. You always have a magicka bar staring you in the face and you only have three things to upgrade when leveling up; so naturally, you never quite feel llike you're "just a mage" or "just a warrior". You're always all three - because there's nothing stopping you from using a bow regardless of how specialized you are and none of the call of duty perks in Skyrim are meaningful enough to diversify you. Also, magic is hilariously bad after the early game. Well, to be fair, almost anything but sneaking/backstab is hilariously bad by the mid game, thanks to level scaling enemies getting stronger than most spells and melee weapons.

 

[Delterius]

Delterius
It it not possible to max out every skill (at least 'til level 70).

It is not necessary to max skills in order to play through the entire game as the Characterless One. Its not even necessary to invest perks on them.

One major weakness is that you can be master of all guilds at once.

The guilds are the way in which the vastdom of Skyrim's content differentiates between different characters. That you can be master of every guild at the same time isn't a 'major weakness', rather a giant blackhole.

But if you really want to roleplay you can always restrict yourself

So fun. Much roleplaying.

That may sound obnoxious to you, but your choice of words is very telling. In order to play an actual character one must 'restrict' himself.

That's because Skyrim isn't an RPG. The so called great freedom of playstyles in Skyrim is actually basic and to be expected in any Action RPG. Difference is that A) The Skyrim engine itself is a bit bad for Action combat and lacks any real sense of impact and B) Skyrim, as a game focused on exploration instead of roleplaying, does not care for petty characterization. Its not part of gameplay.

Just compare this to a game like Dragon's Dogma, where you have the freedom to play with bows, spells or brawn at any point of the game but through a class system that well defines the strenghts and weaknesses of each party member. Or even Skyrim modded with Requiem, where perks are much more than the name suggest, being pretty much necessary for each playstyle and where levelling is much slower.

Seriously, Skyrim not being an RPG wouldn't be an insult. Its a shift of focus to what mechanics matter for most of its fans. People whose experiences with the game are much more defined by a casual (also another word which isn't an insult) exploration of a large gameworld. Its an Action Adventure game which is in sore need of a new engine and a more elaborate world to explore.

 

[HiddenX]

In my two playthroughs through Skyrim I played a cleric/fighter the first time.
And a thief/bowman the next time - both on hard difficulty.
Both character builds were perfectly playable and provided a lot of challenge, exspecially the bowman with close to no magic skills.
The game has only a few character building restrictions, but just make some rules for yourself. This way Elder Srolls games are much more enjoyable.

 

[Delterius]

And in what ways your choice of builds altered the game? In what ways did the sandbox react to you in ways it wouldn't have before? What changed, beyond combat, between your 'cleric' fighter and your thief bowman?

 

[HiddenX]

My way through the game were completely different.

My bowman relied on stealth and ranged attacks, my fighter on close-fights and healing.
My bowman joined the thieves guild, and tried to make a fortune. Alliance with the rebels.
My Fighter joined the werewolves. Alliance with Empire. Tried to be hero for everyone.

 

[Servo]

Troll detected.

Better give up Delterius. Accept the fact that this is a stupid.

 

[Delterius]

My way through the game were completely different.

My bowman relied on stealth and ranged attacks, my fighter on close-fights and healing.
My bowman joined the thieves guild, and tried to make a fortune. Alliance with the rebels.
My Fighter joined the werewolves. Alliance with Empire. Tried to be hero for everyone.

Why would the fighter not use stealth if he totally could, at least on ranged attacks? Why would making a fortune be unique to your thief? Weren't you underwhelmed by the less than 0 impact made by such choices as becoming a werewolf and the Civil War? Why did your bowman rely on stealth if he didn't need to, just like every other Dovahkin? Hell, in my first game I went for a straight mage but offensive magic sucked so much that my 30+ levels of investing on Mana gave way to bows and swords and armor like I was a fighter all along.

All of these choices are roleplaying, sure, but they are called larping for a reason. They have no more substance than Call of Duty has when it allows you to enact a soldier in the middle of modern war. Which is engaging, true, but is something inherent to all games. Roleplaying isn't the natural conclusion of any of Skyrim's systems. You are just doing these things because of your predispositions. You said it yourself, you must use of restriction in order to actually have an RPG-like experience. Hence why Skyrim is an Action game with focus on exploration.

 

[Servo]

HiddenX is that you?

Edit: btw a CRPG is just a computer simluation of larping. Q.E.D.

 

[HiddenX]

In every CRPG I build my character(s) and try to stay in a role through the whole game.
The skills I chose, the decisions my character makes, the answers he gives, the factions he joins.

All this is possible Skyrim and the game is doing well in providing such a platform.

IMHO Skyrim would be better if more choices would exclude other choices. Mages could not wear steel etc.
Because these restrictions are not so good implemented I restrict myself with my own rules to:

a) have more fun
b) get a greater challenge
c) have fun in a second or third play-through and play a completely different character that joins other faction(s)

Skyrim is not in my personal top 20 of CRPGs but I toyed around a lot with it (installed some mods, too) and I was entertained.

You can critisize Skyrim for alot of things, but after all it is: a sandbox action CRPG -> my CRPG Analyzer says exactly that

 

[Delterius]

IMHO Skyrim would be better if more choices would exclude other choices. Mages could not wear steel etc.

Why?

What if I want a Mage who wears steel?

 

[TripJack]

I completely agree - Skyrim is a (sandbox) action CRPG, but it is a CRPG.

the c in crpg doesn't stand for console bro

 

[HiddenX]

I completely agree - Skyrim is a (sandbox) action CRPG, but it is a CRPG.

the c in crpg doesn't stand for console bro

I know and the sky is blue my friend - and what exactly do you want to tell me?

 

[Jaesun]

Skyrim is a Hiking Simulator with stats....

 

[HiddenX]

... and quests, story, background lore, NPCs, exploration, inventory, c&c ... = CRPG

 

[Servo]

In every CRPG I build my character(s) and try to stay in a role through the whole game.
The skills I chose, the decisions my character makes, the answers he gives, the factions he joins.

All this is possible Skyrim and the game is doing well in providing such a platform.

In that sense every game provides a "platform" for roleplaying. For instance, I'm going to play L.A. Noire but my character only ever drives on the sidewalk because he is a zany guy. This does not make L.A. Noire an RPG.

 

[TripJack]

I know and the sky is blue my friend - and what exactly do you want to tell me?

a console game can't be a crpg

 

[HiddenX]

In every CRPG I build my character(s) and try to stay in a role through the whole game.
The skills I chose, the decisions my character makes, the answers he gives, the factions he joins.

All this is possible Skyrim and the game is doing well in providing such a platform.

In that sense every game provides a "platform" for roleplaying. For instance, I'm going to play L.A. Noire but my character only ever drives on the sidewalk because he is a zany guy. This does not make L.A. Noire an RPG.

Have I said this is the only condition for being a CRPG?

 

[Servo]

In every CRPG I build my character(s) and try to stay in a role through the whole game.
The skills I chose, the decisions my character makes, the answers he gives, the factions he joins.

All this is possible Skyrim and the game is doing well in providing such a platform.

In that sense every game provides a "platform" for roleplaying. For instance, I'm going to play L.A. Noire but my character only ever drives on the sidewalk because he is a zany guy. This does not make L.A. Noire an RPG.

Have I said this is the only condition for being a CRPG?

O ya sorry, I forgot it has quests and crap.

 

[HiddenX]

I know and the sky is blue my friend - and what exactly do you want to tell me?

a console game can't be a crpg

Why?

 

[Jaesun]

... and quests, story, background lore, NPCs, exploration, inventory, c&c ... = CRPG

Nope... Playing a ROLE is the only thing that makes a game a cRPG.

Spoiler

HALO is TEH GREATEST cRPG OF ALL TIEM!!!!1111

 

[HiddenX]

... and quests, story, background lore, NPCs, exploration, inventory, c&c ... = CRPG

Nope... Playing a ROLE is the only thing that makes a game a cRPG.

Spoiler

HALO is TEH GREATEST cRPG OF ALL TIEM!!!!1111

you must be a Sims fan then...

 

[Jaesun]

Naw, I never could get into the Sims.