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Prosper The weekly/yearly what is a RPG discussion DISCUSS!!!
- Thread starter Servo
- Start date
I have fun with this kind of stuff - complex system analyzing to make a database or software out of it - is my job.
And believe me there are much more complex systems out there than the genre analysis for CRPGs.
How about you two Jasede and Jaesun ? - I still have to see a usable CRPG definition/checklist/... from the two Js.
Maybe something I can build into my list for Version 1.1
And believe me there are much more complex systems out there than the genre analysis for CRPGs.
How about you two Jasede and Jaesun ? - I still have to see a usable CRPG definition/checklist/... from the two Js.
Maybe something I can build into my list for Version 1.1
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bonescraper
Guest
Didn't read, but fisted for effort.
No it isn't. These sentences are connected, your checklist entries might be too, but to a much lesser degree.
Also that checklists is way too broad, most of the must haves just check if it's a game ffs. Also, you still have to define all the words you use if you want to turn it into a science. Stuff like "control", "quest" or information source" is ill-defined and other stuff like "stats" needs some threshold so that Zelda games with their heart upgrades don't count.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2005
- Messages
- 24,793
I gave mine like five years ago. It went something like this:
"An RPG is a game where there are dungeons (note: forests can be dungeons) and you find and kill things in them to make numbers go up."
But then I realized you could make an RPG without dungeons.
Or things to kill.
And so I gave up and picked up drinking.
~fin
The main element of RPGs are non-disposable character(s) whose success depends significantly on their stats, where, over time these stats can be increased for the most part independently and for the most part methodically by the player.
Since when are Linear RPGs not regular RPGs? News to me.
Since when are Dungeon Crawlers not regular RPGs? News to me.
I have said it before many times (and even in this thread):
A video game that attempts to simulate the mechanics and experience of a pen and paper rule-set system/session is a Computer Role Playing Game (cRPG).
That is my stance, and I am never changing from it.
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I have a simpler way of thinking: I don't care how people define "RPG". I care only with my own definition. "RPGs are games where one or more characters*, with their individual characteristics** and skills**, through the control of the player, interact with a world*** that reacts in a "sufficiently credible way"**** to their attitudes/choices, thus causing the advancement of the story and the characters themselves."
* - Created by the player or not.
** - Idependent abilities of the player's own ability.
*** - Composed of the physical environment, other characters, objects and animals seamlessly and cohesively integrated in it.
**** - Your mileage may vary, but I have mine so I don't care.
If someone disagrees with it, whatever. Not my problem.
* - Created by the player or not.
** - Idependent abilities of the player's own ability.
*** - Composed of the physical environment, other characters, objects and animals seamlessly and cohesively integrated in it.
**** - Your mileage may vary, but I have mine so I don't care.
If someone disagrees with it, whatever. Not my problem.
Telengard
Arcane
And it will keep on happening until Marketing has a change of heart, and properly gives Action RPGs, Fighter RPGs (such as Dark Souls) and Storybook RPGs (such as Bioware's latest romance novel) their own genre categories.
But until that day, we will have to endure the definition of RPG being "everything I think is an RPG is an RPG" and Halo will remain Bestest RPG evah!
And how do you check this against a given game?
a) You have to say what defines a pen&paper roleplaying game then, first.
b) You have to define what grade in "attempts to simulate..." is good enough - every game can at least try.
c) some CRPGs out there have not much to do with classic p&p roleplaying games - what do you do with them - diiscard them all?
My Should-Have elements for Exploration might not work well for extreme linear CRPGs like Banner Saga.
Linear CRPGs are CRPGs without much exploration that follow a linear path.
I'm not saying they are NOT CRPGs, but they belong to this special sub-genre.
***
My Should Have elements for Story might not work well for extreme non-story/non-NPC CRPGs like Wizardry 1.
Dungeon Crawlers/Roguelikes are CRPGs without much pre-defined story or many NPCs elements.
I'm not saying they are NOT CRPGs, but they belong to this special sub-genres.
Clear?
I don't have to define or check shit. It is self explanatory.
Fallout/Fallout 2 are cRPG's. Temple of Elemental Evil is a cRPG. Final Fantasy X is not a cRPG. Skyrim is not a cRPG.
Simple. Elegant.
Fallout/Fallout 2 are cRPG's. Temple of Elemental Evil is a cRPG. Final Fantasy X is not a cRPG. Skyrim is not a cRPG.
Simple. Elegant.
bonescraper
Guest
Because it's multi-platform :jaesunlogic:
Very clear. And suggests that maybe Character is the main criteria. But your reply helps clarify my understanding of what you're going for. Perhaps Character would be Criteria level A while Story and Exploration are criteria level B?
Of cause I have a dictonary and a use-diagram for all terms used in the checklist ... but I think this not necessary to publish them here on the Codex.
When you put it this way, yes - Character Development is the best main category of the checklist to identify a CRPG, because it fits best to all subgenres and to old and new CRPGs.
(At least for me; my co-author Wulf favors Exploration. I think he would not accept Banner-saga as a full CRPG.)
Clockwork Knight
Arcane
And worthless. You know exactly what it is, but you can't describe it? It's not a metaphysical concept, it's a videogame genre
don't you go lyric suite on me, vagrant
Awor Szurkrarz
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2009
- Messages
- 21,899
But doesn't PnP include stuff like re-rolling characters after death?
Delterius
Arcane
Skyrim is not a CRPG - why?
It is self explanatory -> not for me
If vanilla Skyrim was about roleplaying a character, then its character development system wouldn't be made up of not that necessary perks. This is a game about exploration first. A game where you can be any and every character possible at the same time, the Dovahkin master of all skills. Your character has all strenghts possible and no weaknesses necessary, and, indeed, is very much encouraged not have any of the latter: not even the guild quests check to see who you are and maybe even consider you are not apt to follow them.
If Morrowind's issue was that its reputation/faction system was very much exploitable and that, in the end, the Archmage of the Mage's Guild can easily use of charisma enhancers to entertain House Telvanni, Skyrim's is that it is a world where it makes absolute sense for the Lord of Vampires to consort with a wet werewolf.
Skyrim is an action RPG with a dated engine and rather sad looking 'dragons'. It has a mediocre exploration component tied to it where sheer size confronts the awful quality of 'puzzles' and what little interesting faction interactions there are. Hence the action-adventure moniker, and the saying 'vast as an ocean, deep as a puddle'. Which is why whenever I play Skyrim these days I do so with Requiem. It can't improve the content, but at least the action part of the game becomes more of a roleplaying experience.
Skyrim is too easy to bash, here's something different:
A) Deadly Premonition,
B) Pathologic,
C) Saints Row 3.
Those are or aren't RPGs?
A) Deadly Premonition,
B) Pathologic,
C) Saints Row 3.
Those are or aren't RPGs?
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