Doom 4 was designed for urban youths
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The New DOOM Thread (2016)
- Thread starter Wirdschowerdn
- Start date
Tehdagah
Arcane
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- Feb 27, 2012
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- 9,440
Are you talking about this? If so, it looks better than E4M2. More verticality and bigger enemy diversity: mancubis, hell knights, guys armed with lasers guns and flying revenants, instead of the basic variety of Doom 1 (hitscan guys, melee enemies with a single attack and projectile enemies who throw a single fireball). The enemies can even jump through platforms; they no longer keep walking in circles when confronted with an
Also, the excess of Baron of Hells (bullet sponges) in E4M2 makes the level annoying and repetitive.
"It has Cacodemons that roam around and potentially block your way through smaller doorways."
Shame they were a bit spongey in Doom 1 (no SS).
Yes, I was referring to that. But that's the most they wanted to impress people. It's just a big empty room that you walk around in. There is no objective other than to kill everything in sight and then move on. E4M2 has you figuring out where to find the next objective, as well as searching for secret items in hidden passageways that recover the damage you took in E4M1, which had nearly no health items at all.
In addition, the presence of vertical variety doesn't matter nearly as much, since you have excessive means to overcome it. In D44M, you don't just jump or even bunnyhop to gain momentum--you just double jump and grab a ledge to leap up a whole story. In the original Doom games, vertical faces mattered a whole lot more, especially in E4M2, not because you couldn't jump, but because, well, they couldn't be scaled by any reasonable means anyway. If you fell, you had to find a hazmat suit and a way up, or you would die in a short time.
The addition of jumping and vaulting, on the parts of both the enemies and the player, is something I see as simply an orthogonal change, and it's one of the few things they've shown that makes total sense. Although I'd prefer something more like bunnyhopping, the controls appear to preserve some of the fluidity of the original Doom.
I don't really agree with people who say this is too slow just because the movement speed is slower than the original Doom's, but it still does lose some of the magic. If you add the modern convenience of jumping to Doom in a source port, you can break a few of the levels very easily, because that extreme speed combined with extra air time is really something excessive. It's important to note that Quake 3 also features slower movement speed but is still remembered as a relentlessly fast-paced experience, and that's because it trades off some of the basic speed for the advantages in mobility provided by bunnyhopping and rocket jumping. For the same reason, I wouldn't expect that any hypothetical good Doom game made to use all of today's technology would retain the extreme player speed of the original and just plop in jumping mechanics. That would likely require larger, looser, less appealing levels.
I've played the multiplayer alpha, and what vaultboy101 said is true: the double jumping actually slows you down a bit, and there is no semblance of bunnyhopping or rocket jumping to make up for the slow movement speed. I don't play Doom super fast, although I know that some can, but I appreciate the speed because of how it adds to the fluidity of the gunplay and dodge dancing. By contrast, the double jumping, slower movement, and the fact that both players and enemies can now go up or down simply aren't as impressive as the systems that were originally in place in Doom. It's a mostly orthogonal shift, with concessions made for gamepad childs that bring it down below the standards set by early id games.
More enemy diversity is to be expected, because E4M2 was built within Doom's framework, despite being released after Doom 2. However, that video doesn't actually have that many enemies in it, I think. I think there are two Mancubi, two Hellknights that die pretty quickly (but credit where it's due, they do move faster, which is nice), and two Revenants--please note the removal of homing rockets, by the way...
I've played Doom a lot lately, and replaying that map a few times, the Barons don't overstay their welcome at all. There's an abundance of plasma once you encounter them, and they die in short order. The challenge lies in dodging their projectiles, not in waiting until they all die off. I'll take them and the other Doom enemies, along with the complex nature of the map, any day over that E3 Hell arena.
I played that map in particular a lot today, so I figured I would record it. I'm no expert, but I'd say I look like I'm having a hell of a time compared to whoever was playing MAP12 - Brown Cliffside 4.
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Excidium II
Self-Ejected
Why mouselook my man.
Why not? It's the developers' original intention brought to its logical conclusion of full mouse support, and it's what I'm already accustomed to. The original Doom manual recommended using a mouse because of its precision, if you happened to have one back then, so I'm not sacrificing some sacred authenticity of the past or anything.
dunno lah
Arcane
Nah sexbad. You're just spoiled by new shooters.
Lyric Suite
Converting to Islam
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- Mar 23, 2006
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- 56,911
Any sponginess in Doom was taken care of by the double barreled shotgun in the sequel. Now of course i think those monsters were spongy because they were meant to be taken down by rockets, but double barreled shotgun is just too damn fun to complain.
e-mailio estevez
Arcane
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The 5 seconds of E3M1 shown at 0:43 is more visually striking than any of the DOOM footage in the rest of the video
catfood
AGAIN
Can those takedowns even be disabled?
sullynathan
Arcane
yeah
index.php
Arcane
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dunno lah
Arcane
I think they took inspiration from Hdoom lah
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
oh snap
Astral Rag
Arcane
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Ohh noo, I'm aiming for myself instead of letting the computer do half the job for me. Sue me, Romero. You didn't make anything good since you left id until you made E1M8b.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
d a m a g e c o n t r o l
Lyric Suite
Converting to Islam
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The game can certainly be made easier in places if you use mouse look, but i don't think it is that big of a deal either way. Only jumping needs to be disabled since that actually leads to cheating where you can hoop over obstacles that were meant to block you.
John Romero want to make you all his bitch. But this time.... nah.
Anyway, mouse look wasn't in the original doom, nor doom 2. Heretic and hexen also didn't. But heretic and hexen both came with pgup and pgdn to look up and down, and it was similar to other companies' games like dark forces, outlaws, duke nuken, blood, Daggerfall.
And back then I played all of these with keyboard only. I only discovered the WASD config in mid-unreal (I played till half of unreal with keyboard only). After that, there was no coming back for me. Mouselook could be considered cheating in only doom and doom 2 and that's a stretch, because it's not game breaking. Heretic and hexen, having the ability look up and down, mouselook would be just another form of input, just like it was present in vanilla blood, outlaws and daggerfall. Oh, gotta mention these three example had a limited iup/down view: pgup and down had a limit and it wasn't 90º up and/or down, maybe about 45-50º. But that was just to avoid lack of perspective/distorted sprites.
The only cheating mouselook gives doom is the icon of sin boss, and when you have cliffs and pinky demons huggin walls bellow you, which with mouse look on you can kill them from a safe high place. But without mouselook, you can just move around and kill those beasts from another angle, the end result is the same. So mouselook is only a time shortcut.
Also, playing through some wads, you see that a lot of those require mouselook on. And with mouselook on you have the advantage of appreciating architecture/level design, which is something I like to observe. And due to consistency, mouselook is aways on. and in any case, I could turn off mouse look, I'd still use the mouse to turn left and right and use WASD anyway.
I played through 2 levels of doom these days with DOSbox, and used keyboard classic controls and it's totally playable. But I found it was more fun playing with 1080p filtered and mouselook on, so that's the only rule that stands.
Jumping/crouching on the other hand, is cheating and shouldn't be used, unless the level desing in some wads requires it.
Oh, and you all playing quake: Quake originally didn't have mouselook from the get go. So you purists should play the way romero wants: keyboard without mouse look.
Anyway, mouse look wasn't in the original doom, nor doom 2. Heretic and hexen also didn't. But heretic and hexen both came with pgup and pgdn to look up and down, and it was similar to other companies' games like dark forces, outlaws, duke nuken, blood, Daggerfall.
And back then I played all of these with keyboard only. I only discovered the WASD config in mid-unreal (I played till half of unreal with keyboard only). After that, there was no coming back for me. Mouselook could be considered cheating in only doom and doom 2 and that's a stretch, because it's not game breaking. Heretic and hexen, having the ability look up and down, mouselook would be just another form of input, just like it was present in vanilla blood, outlaws and daggerfall. Oh, gotta mention these three example had a limited iup/down view: pgup and down had a limit and it wasn't 90º up and/or down, maybe about 45-50º. But that was just to avoid lack of perspective/distorted sprites.
The only cheating mouselook gives doom is the icon of sin boss, and when you have cliffs and pinky demons huggin walls bellow you, which with mouse look on you can kill them from a safe high place. But without mouselook, you can just move around and kill those beasts from another angle, the end result is the same. So mouselook is only a time shortcut.
Also, playing through some wads, you see that a lot of those require mouselook on. And with mouselook on you have the advantage of appreciating architecture/level design, which is something I like to observe. And due to consistency, mouselook is aways on. and in any case, I could turn off mouse look, I'd still use the mouse to turn left and right and use WASD anyway.
I played through 2 levels of doom these days with DOSbox, and used keyboard classic controls and it's totally playable. But I found it was more fun playing with 1080p filtered and mouselook on, so that's the only rule that stands.
Jumping/crouching on the other hand, is cheating and shouldn't be used, unless the level desing in some wads requires it.
Oh, and you all playing quake: Quake originally didn't have mouselook from the get go. So you purists should play the way romero wants: keyboard without mouse look.
Astral Rag
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2012
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- 7,771
Only noobs and the ignorant played Quake without mouselook. Sure id "forgot " to give Mouselook a proper spot in the game's options menu but everyone knew about mlook by the end of 96 and I certainly didn't know anybody who kept playing without it 
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sullynathan
Arcane
I see no reason to cripple myself in game, mouse look all the way
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