The Mass Effect 3/BioWare Thread

[DraQ]

Mmm... "Openings".

It's Bioware, so the openings are probably... manholes.

Spoiler

Ba dum, tsssssshhh

As befits their rainbow flag.

I was making a biowarean bromance fan impression.

 

[Xeon]

The buggy part in ME1 sucked, even the resource gathering replacement from ME2 and ME3 sucked. Kinda wish if they made it better instead of changing it to a mini game.

I liked the first contact with the reapers in ME1, kinda felt like an epic moment or something. Reapers were ruined in ME2&3.

 

[yes plz]

I thought they fucked up your first introduction to a real Reaper in ME1 when you talk to it via the hologram or whatever. I just don't think something can remain as alien and foreign as they tried to sell the Reapers while having it talk in English and almost banter with the main character. Should've had Shepard turn on the hologram, try to speak with it, and then have it start screeching in some alien language causing an NPC's head to explode and Shepard to start blacking out before managing to turn it off.

 

[markec]

Also it's a large collection of extremely linear missions, which is boring.

I find exploring random generated planets and copy pasted locations much more boring.

 

[tuluse]

Well it's pretty easy to change. Why not make a "gather the ultimate team" story, except working for the alliance or council (fuck the whole you died and came back to life crap just to reset the stats). Make the overall goal gathering info on the reapers.... which makes you run into Cerberus.... which makes you work for them as a double agent (or betray council). Have the main enemy remain as bug men, just make them come into the story a little bit later. Explain the absence of your old companions due to duty, you were the only Specter after all. They could have had you checking out a map they found after repairing a part of Sovereign (a black box or some shit), which could lead you to wherever the fuck. There is tons of ways to make you not work for mystery/shadow/obscure/evil man.

The council could have grounded the Normandy since you scared them with your REAPERS COMING talk and they don't want to deal with it or pay for you to be on a wild goose hunt.

 

[DalekFlay]

I find exploring random generated planets and copy pasted locations much more boring.

Neither game is a shining example of exciting exploration but at least Mass Effect tried.

 

[Dreaad]

Well it's pretty easy to change. Why not make a "gather the ultimate team" story, except working for the alliance or council (fuck the whole you died and came back to life crap just to reset the stats). Make the overall goal gathering info on the reapers.... which makes you run into Cerberus.... which makes you work for them as a double agent (or betray council). Have the main enemy remain as bug men, just make them come into the story a little bit later. Explain the absence of your old companions due to duty, you were the only Specter after all. They could have had you checking out a map they found after repairing a part of Sovereign (a black box or some shit), which could lead you to wherever the fuck. There is tons of ways to make you not work for mystery/shadow/obscure/evil man.

The council could have grounded the Normandy since you scared them with your REAPERS COMING talk and they don't want to deal with it or pay for you to be on a wild goose hunt.

Yeah the wild goose hunt which almost destroyed their center of power.... forcing you to save their asses. Even if they did ground you, it would make more sense for Anderson to secretly get you going again rather than die;come back to life; work for obviously evil organization; everyone to ignore the fact that you are working for obviously evil organization.

 

[RPGMaster]

The Mako stuff wasn't great in ME1 but it was the feature that had the most potential but rather than try to reach that potentional and make something awesome BioWare went the lazy route and cut it. For that they can go fuck themselves.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So, ME is still around huh?

 

[markec]

Neither game is a shining example of exciting exploration but at least Mass Effect tried.

Yeah they tried and fail miserably. In all honesty I would rather do ME2 side quests which all feel different, are well paced and have some missions like exploring derelict ship or collecting dog tags of your last crew that add to atmosphere to the game, then doing identical side quests set in soulless copy pasted environment to which I have to travel 10 minutes on a sorry excuse for a planet design. But that is just my opinion.

 

[yes plz]

Yeah, I thought ME2 easily had the best side quests of the trilogy. Not even counting the recruitment and loyalty stuff as side quests, ME2 still had pretty good optional content. They all had their own unique maps and a good chunk of them didn't even involve popamoling and many of those that did involve just shooting people in the face had something unique about them, like having to activate the beacons to clear the mist, having to destroy the mechs before they destroy all the cargo, or having to face an onslaught of geth during a sandstorm.

I mean, I vastly prefer the likes of say, the typical Fallout quests, where you have multiple solutions and a myriad of ways to get to those solutions, but for BioWare's usual linear design, ME2's side quests made for enjoyable setpieces. ME1's, on the other hand, were mostly same-y dull affairs with little to differentiate them from each other. ME3's optional stuff was barely existent.

 

[DalekFlay]

Yeah they tried and fail miserably. In all honesty I would rather do ME2 side quests which all feel different, are well paced and have some missions like exploring derelict ship or collecting dog tags of your last crew that add to atmosphere to the game, then doing identical side quests set in soulless copy pasted environment to which I have to travel 10 minutes on a sorry excuse for a planet design. But that is just my opinion.

All of ME2's quests are literally corridors with cover. I can't really get any satisfaction from that, personally.

Ironically the "Overlord" DLC changed that, had a hub world you traveled through to choose missions, had vehicle and on-foot alternative sections in missions and whatnot. I assumed that was a taste of what ME3 would be like, but no, ME3 was the same as ME2. It's just empty of anything interesting to do when I constantly feel like I'm walking in a straight line taking cover. Even the cities in ME2 and ME3 feel like a string of rooms in a row. ME1, for all its flaws, made you feel like you were beaming down to large planets to explore them. That's an essential part of a space RPG for me.

 

[RPGMaster]

Neither game is a shining example of exciting exploration but at least Mass Effect tried.

Yeah they tried and fail miserably. In all honesty I would rather do ME2 side quests which all feel different, are well paced and have some missions like exploring derelict ship or collecting dog tags of your last crew that add to atmosphere to the game, then doing identical side quests set in soulless copy pasted environment to which I have to travel 10 minutes on a sorry excuse for a planet design. But that is just my opinion.

Every side quest in ME2 is run down a corridor, shoot some guys, Press A button on some machine. The End.

 

[Drax]

With all it's failings ME 1 was probably the one I enjoyed the most out of the series.

 

[markec]

Yeah they tried and fail miserably. In all honesty I would rather do ME2 side quests which all feel different, are well paced and have some missions like exploring derelict ship or collecting dog tags of your last crew that add to atmosphere to the game, then doing identical side quests set in soulless copy pasted environment to which I have to travel 10 minutes on a sorry excuse for a planet design. But that is just my opinion.

All of ME2's quests are literally corridors with cover. I can't really get any satisfaction from that, personally.

Ironically the "Overlord" DLC changed that, had a hub world you traveled through to choose missions, had vehicle and on-foot alternative sections in missions and whatnot. I assumed that was a taste of what ME3 would be like, but no, ME3 was the same as ME2. It's just empty of anything interesting to do when I constantly feel like I'm walking in a straight line taking cover. Even the cities in ME2 and ME3 feel like a string of rooms in a row. ME1, for all its flaws, made you feel like you were beaming down to large planets to explore them. That's an essential part of a space RPG for me.

I dont find satisfaction in combat of any ME game or its corridors. As I said before its like comparing Skyrims and Oblivions dungeon design, Skyrim is much more linear but they added lots of small detail which despite being linear makes many of them feel real, atmospheric and overall interesting. Oblivion dungeons have many branching corridors but whats the point when they all lead to same location and everything feels copy pasted and artificial. Maybe you are ready to trade illusion of freedom at cost of quality content. As for exploration of planets, again this just might be me but when I beam to a planet and see that that planet looks like something I earlier designed in Terragen in under 5 minutes and that exploration is pretty much pointless it kills all immurshun for me.

You can argue that ME has more exploration or freedom, fine but its still very poorly done and not worth playing for. You can argue that ME1 has better balanced combat and better combat encounters, fine but its still shit in all games and neither of them are worth playing for it. You can argue that the main story of ME1 is more serious and competently written then other two games, fine but its still a fact the story is a piece of shit mishmash of SF cliches written by hacks even if its better then other two games. In conclusion ME1 is a shit game not worth playing for any sane person unless you are a Biodrone or someone with very low standards for entertainment. But after all I said how can ME2 be a good game you ask, even if you say that all those things are better in ME1, story, combat encounters, more freedom, while having those elements slightly worse ME2 has far better characters and far more interesting location even if they are linear. I felt actual fun talking with certain characters in ME2, in ME1 in every dialog I tried not to fall asleep and whats the point of having branching corridors when there is nothing remotely interesting to see there.

You pretend like freedom and exploration is most important thing in SF, which is not, I experienced SF movies, book and games that are set in very limited environment even a single room. SF like everything else is mainly about characters involved in the story, no matter how beautiful the world is if the characters are not interesting it all falls apart.

 

[DalekFlay]

I dont find satisfaction in combat of any ME game or its corridors. As I said before its like comparing Skyrims and Oblivions dungeon design, Skyrim is much more linear but they added lots of small detail which despite being linear makes many of them feel real, atmospheric and overall interesting. Oblivion dungeons have many branching corridors but whats the point when they all lead to same location and everything feels copy pasted and artificial.

Skyrim's linear dungeons were balanced by a huge open world above them. Mass Effect 2's linear missions aren't balanced by anything, they're the entire game.

Maybe you are ready to trade illusion of freedom at cost of quality content. As for exploration of planets, again this just might be me but when I beam to a planet and see that that planet looks like something I earlier designed in Terragen in under 5 minutes and that exploration is pretty much pointless it kills all immurshun for me.

Yes, I think non-linear gameplay is important. Not just for RPGs, but for all genres. If you're someone who focuses on character building and combat over any kind of freedom, choice or exploration then no, we're never going to agree. On anything. Ever.

You pretend like freedom and exploration is most important thing in SF, which is not, I experienced SF movies, book and games that are set in very limited environment even a single room. SF like everything else is mainly about characters involved in the story, no matter how beautiful the world is if the characters are not interesting it all falls apart.

I think having a sci-fi game where all your planets, cities, cultures, missions and locations are a straight linear corridor filled with waist-high boxes is boring as fuck. Also 90% of them look like Earth, which is boring as fuck. In contrast ME1 had 20 or so planets you could land on, roll around in, discover bases and resources, and they most of them had a weird alien feel to them, even if it was a simple palette swap and processing effect. It was made on the cheap and lacked quality content but it felt like sci-fi, it felt like planet exploration. ME2 never does. It feels like Call of Duty in space.

 

[DragoFireheart]

To this day I can, with great pride, claim I have never bought, pirated, borrowed from someone, or played Mass Effect 3.

 

[markec]

Skyrim's linear dungeons were balanced by a huge open world above them. Mass Effect 2's linear missions aren't balanced by anything, they're the entire game.

You are missing the point, the point is that if you need to choose between empty copy pasted branching corridors, that in the end lead to the same place and there is no point of branching them but to only branch them, and linear one that provides good atmosphere, pieces of lore and overall lots of content, any sane person would choose the latter.

Yes, I think non-linear gameplay is important. Not just for RPGs, but for all genres. If you're someone who focuses on character building and combat over any kind of freedom, choice or exploration then no, we're never going to agree. On anything. Ever.

Again you are missing the point, either my english is really bad or you just see what you want to see. Only "freedom" you get in ME1 is to explore planets which is very poorly done, which is consensus by every person with any form of standards but not you obviously. The combat and mission design is not much different then ME2 or 3 yet you try to portray ME1 as some epic sandbox game without any limitations. My point is that average side quest in ME1 is far worse not only in linearity but also in everything else due its copy pasted locations but you think that its ok as long you can drive around on a large open area doing meaningless shit.

I think having a sci-fi game where all your planets, cities, cultures, missions and locations are a straight linear corridor filled with waist-high boxes is boring as fuck. Also 90% of them look like Earth, which is boring as fuck. In contrast ME1 had 20 or so planets you could land on, roll around in, discover bases and resources, and they most of them had a weird alien feel to them, even if it was a simple palette swap and processing effect. It was made on the cheap and lacked quality content but it felt like sci-fi, it felt like planet exploration. ME2 never does. It feels like Call of Duty in space.

You really are a lost cause. Entire ME1 looks like its made from plastic sterilized legos so yeah locations like Omega really feels like an upgrade even if I dont have the "freedom" of riding around in elevators for hours instead of having a loading screen. And planet exploration was beyond horrible and seeing you stubbornly defend it is just pathetic.

 

[DalekFlay]

Again you are missing the point, either my english is really bad or you just see what you want to see. Only "freedom" you get in ME1 is to explore planets which is very poorly done, which is consensus by every person with any form of standards but not you obviously. The combat and mission design is not much different then ME2 or 3 yet you try to portray ME1 as some epic sandbox game without any limitations. My point is that average side quest in ME1 is far worse not only in linearity but also in everything else due its copy pasted locations but you think that its ok as long you can drive around on a large open area doing meaningless shit.

I already said:

Neither game is a shining example of exciting exploration but at least Mass Effect tried.

Not sure how you are interpreting that as "wow ME1's exploration is so awesome you guys!"

I'm saying ME2's corridors were so fucking bad that it was ten times worse than even ME1's banal attempts at freedom.

 

[markec]

Neither game is a shining example of exciting exploration but at least Mass Effect tried.

Not sure how you are interpreting that as "wow ME1's exploration is so awesome you guys!"

You did say:

In contrast ME1 had 20 or so planets you could land on, roll around in, discover bases and resources, and they most of them had a weird alien feel to them, even if it was a simple palette swap and processing effect. It was made on the cheap and lacked quality content but it felt like sci-fi, it felt like planet exploration.

It felt like half assed job done on a lunch break nothing more, it was plainly horrible.

I'm saying ME2's corridors were so fucking bad that it was ten times worse than even ME1's banal attempts at freedom.

This is idiotic statement, because as said ME1 planet exploration was horrible and to say that ME2 world design is ten times worse then one of the most awful design decisions ever in a AAA game is just simply idiotic.

And if you also claim that your average side quest in ME1 which consist of copy pasted location similar to Dragon Age 2 dungeon(s) is also 10 times better then ME2 corridors, then really man you are living in some fantasy world.

 

[imweasel]

Mass Effect 2 is inherently flawed because the entire game I was screaming "I don't want to be in fucking Cerberus!" A game about choice forcing that decision on you was absolutely retarded to the core. My ME1 character would have immediately shot Jacob and Miranda in the head the minute he woke up.

Also it's a large collection of extremely linear missions, which is boring.

I thought it was pretty cool to be in a racist, pro-humanist group. I didn't fucking want to leave.

 

[DalekFlay]

This is idiotic statement, because as said ME1 planet exploration was horrible and to say that ME2 world design is ten times worse then one of the most awful design decisions ever in a AAA game is just simply idiotic.

This is an idiotic minutiae argument at this point. Yes I would take poorly done freedom over moderately well done linearity in an RPG. Yes, yes, yes I damn well would. You disagree. Good for you. Ribbons are handed out in the lobby.

 

[Drax]

Mass Effect 2 is inherently flawed because the entire game I was screaming "I don't want to be in fucking Cerberus!" A game about choice forcing that decision on you was absolutely retarded to the core. My ME1 character would have immediately shot Jacob and Miranda in the head the minute he woke up.

Also it's a large collection of extremely linear missions, which is boring.

I thought it was pretty cool to be in a racist, pro-humanist group. I didn't fucking want to leave.

It sure is an interesting option. But if you are going to base char development along the "paragon-renegade" axis, you need to balance the choices available around that fact. Even if your story is that Weird-eyed-nazi resurrects your ass, a character with Paladin-ish tendencies will quickly say "fuck that shit"...

 

[DalekFlay]

It sure is an interesting option. But if you are going to base char development along the "paragon-renegade" axis, you need to balance the choices available around that fact. Even if your story is that Weird-eyed-nazi resurrects your ass, a character with Paladin-ish tendencies will quickly say "fuck that shit"...

Yeah. Also breaking it down into paragon and renegade is too simple, too. My ME1 renegade was a Dirty Harry "anything to protect the galaxy" type. That includes shooting terrorists like Cerberus operatives in the head. Yet all the "go fuck yourself" dialog to the Illusive Man is paragon, as is blowing up the Collectors at the end. So dumb.

And then in ME3 they're enemies anyway and you're back in the Earth military. Like... what was the point?

 

[markec]

This is idiotic statement, because as said ME1 planet exploration was horrible and to say that ME2 world design is ten times worse then one of the most awful design decisions ever in a AAA game is just simply idiotic.

This is an idiotic minutiae argument at this point. Yes I would take horrible done freedom over well done linearity in an RPG. Yes, yes, yes I damn well would. You disagree. Good for you. Ribbons are handed out in the lobby.

Not really something to be proud about, also no need to be so butthurt when someone points out your stupidity.