KickStarter The Legends of Eisenwald Thread

[mindx2]

Alex Aterdux Entertainment I attribute my win today to the great mood you put me in by getting your boxed version of LoE today... thank you!

 

[agris]

Glad you like it! However, we will resend you the discs, so you will get another pair! These ones are not that good and unfortunately I overlooked how they were produced. We will do a better print and they will be proper DVD9 discs...

Please tell Obsidian and other KS devs who you used for your map, because the quality of the PoE map put it in dish-rag territory. Only it was too stiff to be a decent rag.

 

[Gord]

Hey Aterdux Entertainment, just saw that you released the new patch today. Any specific reason why you offer the possibility to downgrade to the previous one?

 

[Abu Antar]

The game is 55% off on Steam, for those interested.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

They will be sort of sidequels. One of the rumors about Gustav Platte will be expanded into a full story, for one.

 

[4249]

Oh my, what a large discount. I'll grab the Knight's Edition to compensate a bit

 

[4249]

The system worked too long. Restart the computer to start the game.

Fuck you game, I ain't restarting my computer. What an absurd request.

For now atleast. Maybe after some shuteye I'll be more receptive to bullshit.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Fuck you game, I ain't restarting my computer. What an absurd request.

For now atleast. Maybe after some shuteye I'll be more receptive to bullshit.

The thing is that the game is compiled with 32 bit Delphi. So the system uptime counter is getting loaded very fast. As a result, we can't really do any memory control and if we let the game start, it will crash. That's why this restarting and it should be a real restart not a hybrid one modern systems do. The easiest thing to do is open admin console window and type there shutdown /s /t 0

It actually will do your computer good things too, you didn't really turn it off or restart for over a month.

 

[4249]

It's still an utterly absurd request for a game to do.

Buuuut I did restart and play for 5 hours straight, so I guess it was worth it

 

[Abu Antar]

I now own the game, when I will play it is another matter that should not be discussed.

 

[Jimmious]

I second Abu Antar. The offer was too good to refuse.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Hey Aterdux Entertainment, just saw that you released the new patch today. Any specific reason why you offer the possibility to downgrade to the previous one?

In the past, for some systems new patches stopped working, for unknown reasons. It has something to do with configurations and we haven't figured out what exactly. So, those who can't start the game have an extra option of trying the previous versions. We keep them since 1.005.

 

[Cadmus]

Oops, fuk me mate! this game is out? I knew I was missing something when I thought I had played all the new ones.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Meanwhile on Reddit:

Making turn-based RPGs is tough - takes a lot of effort which is then hard to justify. Thanks for mentioning our Legends of Eisenwald but as a head of the studio I am not sure we will be able to continue making games like this. My impression is that despite that people say they want turn-based but in truth the market wants simple games where you don't have to think. I am really happy and proud how our game turned out, E:C was also good but the time where you can have good sales without much advertising seems to be over. (...) I for one don't play short games at all. I like to dive in and explore the world. Yet, you are right, attention span of people according to research is getting shorter, so unless you have already an established IP like HoMM or new IP based on some other games (PoE) it's not easy. Still, this tendency of games getting shorter is a bit of a surprise for me - during our Kickstarter campaign and later at Early Access the majority was saying they'd love to have more content, more hours of gameplay. Sad to realize most of those people are not even ready to admit that's not true for them anymore - they might have thought like that in the past but times changed.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

In other words, the market for niche turn based combat seems pretty small at the moment. Other good games with a lot of gameplay hours this year don't help either. Divinity, SR and a few others are doing well because of the resource, IP and large existing community. Combined with the fact that youtubers are not really eager to play turn based games, things are not looking exactly exciting. I know it's our fault of not promoting enough our game but at the same time we did a good effort which would have been enough a few years or even a year ago but not anymore.

 

[Cadmus]

Dont be sad dewd. Im playing it now, Ill let you know what I think once Im done. Unless you dont care to hear it as I havrnt been Reading tjis thread not to spoil it for myself. Sry for pselling writting from pgobe

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Well, the game is good, no questions about that, but it just didn't sell enough. Maybe GOG will save us, who knows

 

[amurath]

Any news on when it'll come out on GOG? Also, when is patch 1.1 going to be released? Thanks.

 

[Cadmus]

Well, the game is good, no questions about that, but it just didn't sell enough. Maybe GOG will save us, who knows

It's good, but it's really not excellent, you know?
For me it seems there's a spark missing somewhere, like if I compare it to E:C, it looks much better but there's so little atmosphere. I'm finding it a little bit a chore to play now after a week. I don't know what's there to look forward to because I don't like the writing style at all. I like the stories themselves.
I really love the paintings for the story segments, they are absolutely stunning and better than E:C and PoE and everything else I can think of.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

Any news on when it'll come out on GOG? Also, when is patch 1.1 going to be released? Thanks.

The 1.1 patch is coming sometime this month. As for GOG, we need to make achievements work (should happen soon) and then the release might be within a month or so once they give us a slot.

It's good, but it's really not excellent, you know?
For me it seems there's a spark missing somewhere, like if I compare it to E:C, it looks much better but there's so little atmosphere. I'm finding it a little bit a chore to play now after a week. I don't know what's there to look forward to because I don't like the writing style at all. I like the stories themselves.
I really love the paintings for the story segments, they are absolutely stunning and better than E:C and PoE and everything else I can think of.

If it's the sentiment that our game is not excellent then it's indeed a reason of it not doing well. It really beats me when I hear there is little atmosphere (a lot of atmosphere is usually mentioned in many both press and user reviews). We did the game and put everything into it that we loved and to us, the game is great despite some technical glitches. Even the story segments you mention are not just the lore, they are really the part of the story.

 

[Jimmious]

I would say the issue is more that there is nothing really special, not that the game is not good. I mean let's see the successful turn based games of the last years:
- D:OS had the co-op and all the freedom for the player
- WL2 had a famous ancestor and the creation of your own team in a post apoc setting
- Blackguards had really good encounters and a deep character system
- Shadowruns had a famous setting mainly and delivered on its aesthetic.

Your game while good, doesn't have (imo) something that people will remember it for/advertise it for. And something like that is needed unfortunately for TB games these times

 

[Cadmus]

The 1.1 patch is coming sometime this month. As for GOG, we need to make achievements work (should happen soon) and then the release might be within a month or so once they give us a slot.


If it's the sentiment that our game is not excellent then it's indeed a reason of it not doing well. It really beats me when I hear there is little atmosphere (a lot of atmosphere is usually mentioned in many both press and user reviews). We did the game and put everything into it that we loved and to us, the game is great despite some technical glitches. Even the story segments you mention are not just the lore, they are really the part of the story.

You might just be the first studio here on the codex who totally love their game and actually defend it instead of being pussies and telling us how great we are for offering criticism, lol.

I don't think it's excellent because the combat is overly simplistic, the fighter hero skills are next to useless, the whole hero development tree (I only played the knight so far) seems overbalanced to death, like why bother with any of the active skills if they eat my turn? I use them extremely rarely like once in 20 battles. So what you got to look forward to is your units leveling up which to me plays totally like Disciples 2 but while it wasn't really that amazing there, that game was the best looking game ever so seeing the new art was totally worth it. Here, it's ok, you get a little bit more of that, a new ability that you'll hardly use and a new passive of sorts. I got most of my soldiers on the max level now so the next map I'll make them differently to enjoy the development fully but then that will be all there is to it.

About the atmosphere - I feel bad for saying this. As I mentioned in the review thread, what the fuck could I expect you to do for 80k? I think you went miles and miles beyond anything expected on this budget so please don't take the criticism personally, I think it's an amazing effort.

Obviously this is a personal feeling so don't take it too seriously, but the feeling of atmosphere really seems like a personal experience so here's why I think it feels like that to me (EDIT: from reading this again you might want to have some reservations to my critique of writing in the English language):
- while the graphics are really, really good, I was so surprised there was so much land with real forests, great job on this, dynamic shadows, etc., - the art style for the 3D models and the colour palette suggest a slightly stylized and brighter kind of fantasy to me. So I guess my complaint is that it's not grimdark enough? I don't know, don't overthink it because I certainly haven't
- again, the game feels like a fantasy game to me, I'm not sure why. Trying to compare it to E:C which felt authentic,I was happy to enjoy a new realistic setting, here I need to be reminded I'm in Germany by the game telling me about real places I know.

- the writing style is imo the worst thing about it, as I mentioned in the other thread. There's lots of phrases that sound modern to me, lots of strange overly long sentences that struggle to get to the point, some grammar errors that I noticed (just a few and they're not important so whatever). It's not a joy to read and doesn't breathe atmosphere at me like in E:C.

As Jimmious said, what should I remember the game for? I remember it for the struggle at the beginning, trying to overcome the enemy armies, escaping from that asshole traitor friend, seeing the new big map with beautiful castles beautifully situated on hills etc, as they should be but that's like 2 maps and then it because kinda a chore with nothing to support it.

You also had a really big competition, unfortunately for you, fortunately for the players. D:OS has the best TB combat in maybe any game of this kind ever, PoE is bland but many people care for it from the get go for the nostalgia and gorgeous production values, Wasteland 2 I didn't really like but it's the same nostalgia calling.

What I'd compare this to is E:C and Lords of Xulima and I liked both of them more than LoE. Maybe it's because I'm playing this game the last but E:C had better writing and atmosphere and Xulima was kinda cool with better combat, better character progression and the writing while totally simplistic at least wasn't off-putting.

I'd still play your game over PoE if that means anything to you.

EDIT: and about the discussion about the game length, people are retarded and fuck them. Of course most of us here want a huge game full of content, but 1) the content must be good and the mechanics must be good, 2) we aren't enough here to pay you 3 years wage for the studio to warrant making the game for us

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

I think you contradict yourself. Saying our combat is more simplistic than say Lord of Xulima is just not true. I also think you didn't get to any of the hard battles yet. Do watch a few of the videos or try to download a save from the thread on Steam where we put difficult battles. Combat is varied if you apply some thinking processes into what you are going to do. We always liked our combat and still do. Some people do complain indeed, so yes, it's a bit controversial. As for special skills, aimed shot and counterattack I use pretty much all the time when I can. Defense I use too when I play with a baroness and need tanks while shooting the enemies.

Oh, and 80k is not really the budget of the game, that Kikstarter money is not even enough to cover art in the game. Budget is way bigger, way over 500k.

Basically, you want a game that's a good fit for you. It's great but even if we did that, we would lose the majority who likes our game. All in all, you guys here like different games and that's OK. I don't think both King's Bounty or Disciples 2 are highly revered here.

While I both like E:C and Lords of Xulima, I couldn't finish any of them. In E:C I liked the combat but the world exploration turned me off so much. In Lords of Xulima the story really kills it for me, too generic.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

I would say the issue is more that there is nothing really special, not that the game is not good. I mean let's see the successful turn based games of the last years:
- D:OS had the co-op and all the freedom for the player
- WL2 had a famous ancestor and the creation of your own team in a post apoc setting
- Blackguards had really good encounters and a deep character system
- Shadowruns had a famous setting mainly and delivered on its aesthetic.

Your game while good, doesn't have (imo) something that people will remember it for/advertise it for. And something like that is needed unfortunately for TB games these times

As I said, our game is just not a good fit for Codex. I guess it never was so I am even more grateful for the all the support we got.

Our game has unique combat, setting, good story/atmosphere and non-linear, weapons system, etc. Overall, many unique design decisions that are not on the surface. You guys here like classic RPGs and our game is not that. It's more an adventure with combat. And it's usually combat that makes it or breaks it. We have many players who like it and fewer who don't. I am aware of the game's short comings, yet it was the best we could do and I am very proud for what we did. But the thing is that turn based stuff is going to die I am afraid, with few exceptions. No one really wants experiments, Blackguards 2 sold so bad I don't think they are going to continue making sequels. Letsplayers don't want to play that. And that already has consequences for us. I think hardcore crowd is pretty much gone (or it's there but too stiff and wants specific things), so we will have to rethink our approach and who we are making the games for.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Not sure the 'hardcore crowd' is gone. It seems to me it is a small market which can sustain a bunch of games but the recent incline has made it harder for indies. Speaking at least from my own experiece, there are simply too many games that interest me at the moment, not even counting the older classics to replay or catch up to, that its simply impossible to get them all.

For one thing, I just can't afford to buy them all. In fact, I put way to much money into this hobby as it is. There are a bunch of games I am really interested in but I simply did not have the money and the time yet to get them. And I can not afford to buy them now and play them later just to support an indie developer (like some fans and Codexers do). So you always have to make a decision which game to get and there are many to choose from at the moment and then there is the temptation to play X in the time being until game Y goes on sale. In short, after a very long drought the market seems to have gotten pretty saturated real quick, lots of competition, lots of games to choose from. Kickstarting seems to get harder too, though opinions differ on that.

For another thing, I simply don't have the time to play them all. I think that is where your comments about 'game time' and content come into play and to a certain degree I agree with them. Some people say they want as much content as possible, partly probably because it is part of the tradition of the genre and when a game does not adhere to this it doesn't really feel like a 'full fledged' RPG. Thats really a blessing but also the biggest curse of this hobby, how time consuming it can be. At the same time, many of us perhaps just don't have as much time (or patience) anymore to play through large epic sprawling RPGs, or at least not too many of them (cause some of them sure seem to have no problem to put all these hours into Skyrim or Dragon Age...). So tighter games like Shadowrun which hit about the 20hr mark seem to gain in popularity. Makes it easiert to pick up the next great game too, instead of investing 40, 60 or 80hrs on just one. We also recently noticed the steam statistics that barely any of these games get finished anymore. Even very popular ones like Divinity or PoE have terrible statistics in that regard. I wonder if shorter games like Shadowrun or Banner Saga fare better there?

But these are just a few of my thoughts, and what do I know, really.

Anyway, something that interests me: Do you also question your decision to take a (relatively) historically correct approach, without many fantasy elements and the likes? Personally, I enjoy these more realistic approaches with historically accurate armors and such, however I feel that many potential buyers just expect their elves and their dwarves and their mages in their RPGs.