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Game News The Golden Baby Flaps Its Wings: Grimoire Demo Released!

Moribund

A droglike
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
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Tied to the mast
Color me shocked. Not applicable here but like I said I have found another bug about once a month in VS for many years now, usually stupid shit but sometimes serious and hard to work around.

And anything you find like that is going to extend all the way back to what, 2002? MS STL has a history of being buggy as shit, as does visual studio itself, film at 11. Only shocker is someone whiteknighted VS :lol:

I'm sure there's more bugs like that, too...they just aren't fixed yet.
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
Übermensch Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
11,579
Location
LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/716468

:troll:

Heap corruption with STL.

Among 500 other bugs in the STL fixed in the move to VS2011 . . .

Moribund and Tramboi, you're supposed to be programmers, yet you can't google . . . :(

(except for size - Grimoire wins here, assuming Cleve's 600 hr promise is true).
Considering how long it takes to resolve a battle if you don't speed it up, I can see that being true.

Hold down the enter key and hope someone doesn't die.

One of the exact functions I call to share the animation data between monsters. I searched M$ and could only find a recommendation to upgrade to VS2011. I wanted to release the demo and can't afford to do two week conversions every time there is a bug in MS code.

The things is, Windows XP and our copy of Win 7-64 here just ignore the heap corruption for hours and keep on truckin' with no errors of any kind. On other machines (service packs?) apparently it may be throwing up an exception.
 

Tramboi

Prophet
Patron
Joined
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Messages
1,226
Location
Paris by night
Or - those who can, contract.

Those who can't, become desk mushrooms wherever anybody will take them.

If you could contract for a living, you would. In the human ecosystem, permanents as a rule are what is left in the basket when the good puppies have all been taken.

Not really Cleve, being in a bigger structure allows you to work on more ambitious projects with brilliant people, with tight NDAs, and to have your code in millions of devices world wide, or hundreds of thousands of games.
This said, I respect your entrepreneurship.
 

EG

Nullified
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
4,264
C++ 11, man. It didn't exist the first 15 years of Grimoire development. And support in STLPort was not released.
Nothing to do with vectors erase and insert.

Yet, here we are. Let me have my moment of smug ignorance, dammit.

One of the exact functions I call to share the animation data between monsters. I searched M$ and could only find a recommendation to upgrade to VS2011. I wanted to release the demo and can't afford to do two week conversions every time there is a bug in MS code.

The things is, Windows XP and our copy of Win 7-64 here just ignore the heap corruption for hours and keep on truckin' with no errors of any kind. On other machines (service packs?) apparently it may be throwing up an exception.
 

Tramboi

Prophet
Patron
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Messages
1,226
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Paris by night
Yet, here we are. Let me have my moment of smug ignorance, dammit.
Everybody is entitled to this, especially me :)
Note than C++11 was still 0x, therefore not standardized completely, when MSVC10 went out, so it was clearly not a good idea to use these early beta features in production code.
And launching exceptions in a game is a very bad idea, in fact coding exception-safe in C++ is very very very hard.
Herb Sutter has a lots of quizzes on the subject here : http://www.gotw.ca/gotw/
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
Übermensch Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
11,579
Location
LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
Or - those who can, contract.

Those who can't, become desk mushrooms wherever anybody will take them.

If you could contract for a living, you would. In the human ecosystem, permanents as a rule are what is left in the basket when the good puppies have all been taken.

Not really Cleve, being in a bigger structure allows you to work on more ambitious projects with brilliant people, with tight NDAs, and to have your code in millions of devices world wide, or hundreds of thousands of games.
This said, I respect your entrepreneurship.

Note trouble in understanding what has been said. This guy is a permanent.

Again, the overwhelming research conducted over the past 100 years indicates that what you are saying is your vanity talking.

The facts don't support this conclusion. The facts say something completely different.

There is what you need to believe in order to support your vanity and go on living. The facts say that is a lie. There is no evidence to support it whatsoever.

The facts say you are a permanent because you are not bright enough to contract. The facts say that your company is likely structured such that they are more interested in placeholders than performance. This is the way the real world works.

In your private fantasy world, you are the best and brightest. The facts say you are the worst and the least and your company employs you because you are what is left over when the good puppies have already been taken.

Sorry but that is apparently the way the entire planet works. When your company is desperate enough for real results, they will turn to somebody like me. Until then they employ you in what amounts to a human bookmark.

If corporations were good at hiring the best and brightest we would not be in a worldwide depression.

There are the John Sculleys of the world, who are a legend in their own mind. Then there is the genuine article, like Steven Jobs. People like Jobs are outnumbered by the Sculleys a million to 1.

In regards to me, remember, everything is relative. It is not that I am the world's greatest programmer. It is that compared to you I am the world's greatest programmer. I am certain that of the genuine programmers in the world, 50% of them are better coders than I am. As for the 90% charlatans who are not really coders at all, they just play these roles at their day jobs, I would be infinitely superior to all of those guys including you. You literally don't even know what you don't know. It is obvious that anyone who thinks the Dinkumware code has EVER been stable or reliable in the 16 YEARS that M$ has had to fix it is trying to preserve their sanity, somewhat unsuccessfully. STLPort and Boost have been the only stable collection classes for C++ in the past 16 years.
 

Tramboi

Prophet
Patron
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Messages
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Paris by night
I'm happy your clients are delighted to get debug binaries with lots of access violations and illicitly distributed third-party dlls.
Corporate world definitely needs more of this!
 

Moribund

A droglike
Joined
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Messages
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Tied to the mast
Tramboi is like an SNL character where every single thing he says is completely irrelevant, yet smug and insulting.

Are you a robot from the future, Tramboi? He's immune to logic, doesn't feel pain, and ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT READ AND UNDERSTAND THE SUBJECT AT HAND.

Come to think of it aside from working in university lab everything I've done has been at a consulting firm or long time contract at companies full of perm employees who do nothing at all, then hire a few contractors to do all the work at the last minute. I once would assume it was different in gaming, but I know now it's the same or worse. Guys like tramboi certainly don't help with my opinion.
 

Haba

Harbinger of Decline
Patron
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Land of Rape & Honey ❤️
Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
God damnit Cleve. I told my guys that you could be let out of the cellar since you got the demo out, and this is the first thing that happens. Get back to work, or we'll find out if you code better with BOTH of your kneecaps gone!
 

Charles-cgr

OlderBytes
Developer
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
984
Project: Eternity
tumblr_lxjlw4AnIX1rn1xxfo1_250.gif


Sometimes I wish Cleve didn't have anything better to do.
 

Moribund

A droglike
Joined
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Tied to the mast
Wait a minute, I missed a post. Did tramboi just say he had code that was a part of hundreds of thousands of games but NDA prevented him from telling us? :lol:

What code did he make, the blue screen of death in Windows CE?

Also, whatever your NDA you can list out what games you worked on, otherwise no one would be able to get more jobs. Fuck even if you have Q clearance you can put the project name and location on your resume. You can't have your resume be above top secret!
 

Moribund

A droglike
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
1,384
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Tied to the mast
Fascinating and disturbing. Anyone know anything about these games? Particular what engine they use, or whether they are in house engines. I want to hear what the dinkumware defender works with.
 

Moribund

A droglike
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Messages
1,384
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Tied to the mast
Also, french aspie? :lol:

Sometimes god has a sense of humor. That has to be the most arrogant know-it-all, socially retarded, reading comprehension challenged combination on earth. Thanks, God, for livening up my day. How did the Angevine-Basque master race ever get marginalized by these guys anyway, even outnumbed like five hundred to one?
 

SlavemasterT

Arcane
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
2,670
Location
not Eurofagistan
There is nearly 100+ years of research to show that transient staff in the form of contractors, temps, consultants achieve all productive work inside of corporations without exception. They are also the most technically competent people, the best at organizing and scheduling work, the best at achieving results in limited time frames. The permanent staff almost without exception are like barnacles - they are a form of parasitic growth that tries to attach itself to the hull of companies where it can't be easily blown off without high powered equipment. They specialize year-to-year in coming up with complex explanations for why they never seem to actually accomplish anything that can be seen, heard, felt or smelt of any kind.

When Dr. Peter Lawrence had his press conference to reveal his research in the 70's, one of the journalists in the audience held his hand up and asked a very good question. "If these transients are responsible for all productive work inside companies, then what do permanent staff do?" To which Lawrence famously replied "Organize and campaign for the dismissal, termination and transfer of transient staff." Everybody in the room laughed really hard, partly in shock and partly in amusement. Then there was a long, long uncomfortable silence. Dr. Lawrence had just completely overturned all conventional paradigms for reality since the Middle Ages and what human beings thought the world was like in only ten minutes. That was just his first salvo. His research had uncovered so many mind bending things that an ordinary person would never really have the brains to understand any of it.

Within ten years, Lawrence was largely forgotten. Ordinary people have memories like mayflies. The only thing that has remained is the crude appraisal of his work as "People are promoted to their level of incompetency." It is the summary of a child on the works of William Shakespeare.
Damn it, Cleve, can you try to avoid sending us on wild goose chases with your Neanderthal dyslexia? It's Laurence J. Peter, not Peter Lawrence.
 

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
Übermensch Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
11,579
Location
LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
There is nearly 100+ years of research to show that transient staff in the form of contractors, temps, consultants achieve all productive work inside of corporations without exception. They are also the most technically competent people, the best at organizing and scheduling work, the best at achieving results in limited time frames. The permanent staff almost without exception are like barnacles - they are a form of parasitic growth that tries to attach itself to the hull of companies where it can't be easily blown off without high powered equipment. They specialize year-to-year in coming up with complex explanations for why they never seem to actually accomplish anything that can be seen, heard, felt or smelt of any kind.

When Dr. Peter Lawrence had his press conference to reveal his research in the 70's, one of the journalists in the audience held his hand up and asked a very good question. "If these transients are responsible for all productive work inside companies, then what do permanent staff do?" To which Lawrence famously replied "Organize and campaign for the dismissal, termination and transfer of transient staff." Everybody in the room laughed really hard, partly in shock and partly in amusement. Then there was a long, long uncomfortable silence. Dr. Lawrence had just completely overturned all conventional paradigms for reality since the Middle Ages and what human beings thought the world was like in only ten minutes. That was just his first salvo. His research had uncovered so many mind bending things that an ordinary person would never really have the brains to understand any of it.

Within ten years, Lawrence was largely forgotten. Ordinary people have memories like mayflies. The only thing that has remained is the crude appraisal of his work as "People are promoted to their level of incompetency." It is the summary of a child on the works of William Shakespeare.
Damn it, Cleve, can you try to avoid sending us on wild goose chases with your Neanderthal dyslexia? It's Laurence J. Peter, not Peter Lawrence.

Corrected. Sorry.

... and most important human beings never have more than a paragraph on Wikipedia. Having any IQ above room temperature flags you as a troublemaker at Wikipedia and they make certain you get little or no reference of any kind there.

Dr. Peter warrants an entry about fifty pages long in terms of contribution to human understanding. That page is a joke.
 

EG

Nullified
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
4,264
Also, french aspie? :lol:

Sometimes god has a sense of humor. That has to be the most arrogant know-it-all, socially retarded, reading comprehension challenged combination on earth.

Seeing yourself in the mirror, if not for the French part. :lol:

Cold Fear does look alright.
 

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