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The Eye of the Beholder Thread

pdesbois

Novice
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
21
hey, does that mean you guys tried it already? i know Cleric sux in fighting at higher levels, but I just told mysef one class, that is all. And I seriously considered Wizard, as some excellent fighting spells (Improved Invis and Stoneskin) are wizards...
 

Unkillable Cat

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I haven't tried it, but I know the EOB games well enough to know what to expect.

BTW, you won't get anywhere in EOB3 with that Cleric. The forest at the start needs to be cleared, and for that you need an axe. And Clerics can't wield axes.

Then there's the problem with the "Hands of the learned" puzzle further on in EOB3. It requires a Mage, but I haven't checked to see whether the Mage actually needs to be alive to solve it.

Finally there's a puzzle in the Mage Guild that requires you to cast Wall of Force. Fortunately there's a Wand of Wall of Force in EOB3 (in the Mausoleum, of all places) but I haven't checked if this particular wand can be used by non-Mages.

You should be good with EOB1 and EOB2 though, aas a Cleric can cast both Dispel Magic and Hold Person.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Unkillable Cat said:
Unless your character class is Cleric, about 8 out of 10 games will end with your character starving to death.
Only if you set the food availability to the lowest setting. Otherwise food is plentiful everywhere. I usually play a F/M/C and never see the food bar going below half, and that's with only relying on the food that I find.

BTW there's a weird bug I always got in DH, which is that items eventually stop appearing in the lower levels. It's a big problem if you have keys on, because you can end up in a situation where the key to a door on that level doesn't spawn, and you're stuck and unable to finish. Happened to me a couple of times.
 

Unkillable Cat

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Never had that bug crop up on me, but then again I made doubly sure to have covered every inch of each level before moving on downwards.

IIRC, DH "fills out" the map on every level.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,748
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Fowyr said:
BTW, anyone heard about strange Bloodwych bugs in the PC version (not about wall-where-it-should-not-be)?
Sometimes after some spells casted by monsters (Arc Bolt especially), game starts corrupt maps. Doors instead of walls, walls instead of items, staircases what doesn't worked and so on.
Well, I played the PC version and the only bug I noticed was the wall-where-it-should-not-be.
 

pdesbois

Novice
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
21
My Cleric is spending some 'quality time' with his necros in some dungeon level in EOB1, to give him some perspective on Life, the Universe AND EVERYTHING. Still, if I ever manage to finish EOB1 & 2 (...), He can get past the woods of whatever by resurrecting some chutiya after the Dran battle and go nuts about chooping down them stupid trees.

Incidentally, anyone knows any other good site with RPG' portraits, like this:

http://nwvault.ign.com/fms/AdvSearch.ph ... =portraits

I am trying to build some sort of party for NWN and would love to have some sort of pic about an halfling or gnomish elderly lady, who'd be the Healer of the party. Many thanx (btw, I dl the Icewind Dale pic package, God, some excellent ones there!).
 

Calem Ravenna

Scholar
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
192
Tried out Dungeon Hack. Took me five starts before I was able to descend into the lower level - before that, every generated dungeon was incomplete, with no way to reach the stairs. The first one was the most ridiculous - just a corridor and two rooms, no secret switches or illusionary walls at all.

The dungeons definately feel like they were randomly generated. I guess I'm just spoiled by a couple of nice screenshots showing large dungeon levels with many corridors, interconnected rooms etc. Maybe it gets better as one descends further?

The amount of locked doors seems to be a bit too large. With a low "Keys" setting, I had about eight or nine locked doors on the top level.

So far I've seen no doors that couldn't be opened by a key or button. What is the point of rogues in this game? As far as I gather, there's no stealth of any kind nor any backstabbing (attacks land more frequently when monsters turn their backs no matter what character I play).

In regards to monsters, there are indeed two monster types per level plus a single tougher one. So far, the tougher ones were placed randomly, far from the exits.

In terms of difficulty, the first three levels were a breeze with a dwarf fighter/cleric. That changed when I fell into a pit on the fourth level. The fifth is made up of Cockatrices and Ghost Warriors. Cockatrices are slow and don't hit too hard, but the petrification is pretty annoying. Ghost Warriors on the other hand are fast and strong, can't even use the traditional hit and run tactic on them, and an encounter of more than one equals an instant reloading. Turn undead seems to have no noticable effect.

I ran into one trap so far, and it only did 2-4 points of damage.

As for food, on a moderate setting (3 on a 0-7 scale) I found a total of three rations, one per fully explored level.

Overall, seems like a pretty fun game. Somewhat bland, but that's to be expected. The interface is decent enough for a single player character.

Unkillable Cat said:
IIRC, DH "fills out" the map on every level.

Yeah, it seems the game generates portions of the dungeon as you play, based on a seed number generated at the start. This explains why starting a new game is much quicker than reloading a save game and the frequent loading times when walking around. I've seen slight differences in enemy placement between reloads.


Sceptic said:
BTW there's a weird bug I always got in DH, which is that items eventually stop appearing in the lower levels. It's a big problem if you have keys on, because you can end up in a situation where the key to a door on that level doesn't spawn, and you're stuck and unable to finish. Happened to me a couple of times.

That sound pretty bad, and since I've already ran into problems at the start... This is definately a possibility. But it seems that there are no unique keys/gems/mallets, so it's probably possible to avoid it by editing the inventory with a save game editor, if there is one of course.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
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Strange, I never have any gamebreaking bugs or broken dungeons in the Dungeon Hack. And probably unreachable parts of dungeons may be reached through lower level.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
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Divinity: Original Sin
Calem Ravenna said:
every generated dungeon was incomplete, with no way to reach the stairs. The first one was the most ridiculous - just a corridor and two rooms, no secret switches or illusionary walls at all.
That's strange, in the dozens of dungeons I've played I've never seen this. Are you sure you didn't miss a secret button? some are quite cleverly hidden. The random generator is usually quite good - there is always a way forward (barring the bug I mentioned earlier).

The dungeons definately feel like they were randomly generated. I guess I'm just spoiled by a couple of nice screenshots showing large dungeon levels with many corridors, interconnected rooms etc. Maybe it gets better as one descends further?
Whether it gets better or not depends purely on your luck. It is random after all... though there are specific patterns that may or may not appear in your dungeon (hard to describe them; you'll recognize them when/if you see them).

What is the point of rogues in this game?
None, to be honest. I don't remember if backstab works, but even if it does getting behind a monster is not common occurrence.

So far, the tougher ones were placed randomly, far from the exits.
That shouldn't happen. The "boss" (if there is one) is always spawned within a specific radius around the stairs down. It may be far from the exit in terms of walking around the corridors, but "through the walls" it should be very close to the stairs.

In terms of difficulty, the first three levels were a breeze
That's pretty much par for the course. No matter the size of the dungeon, level 4 is when things start to get nasty. BTW there is an option to turn undead off in the dungeon settings; I rarely use it, but if undead get on your nerves it's a good option. Negative Plane Protection is also a must when dealing with undead to avoid level/stat drain.

it's probably possible to avoid it by editing the inventory with a save game editor, if there is one of course.
As far as I know there are none. There is however a cheat mode of sorts, which IIRC allows you to walk through doors (I think that's how I finished some of those incomplete dungeons)
 

Fowyr

Arcane
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Messages
7,671
I so hated these invisible monsters. Also on your journey through the game you may find special set of items for your class.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
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Messages
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M&M3 Brother Delta bug still torments me. I heard once what version from M&M6 limited edition doesn't have this bug. Is this true?
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
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Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
I also never encountered any major bugs in DH, but the game was extremely boring. Better play any "standard" roguelike.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Fowyr said:
M&M3 Brother Delta bug still torments me. I heard once what version from M&M6 limited edition doesn't have this bug. Is this true?
Limited Edition includes the patched version of MM3, which fixes the Brothers quest (as well as a few other bugs, such as the crash in the swamps, the crash in arena fight 76, as well as a few more).
 

Unkillable Cat

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Sceptic said:
Fowyr said:
M&M3 Brother Delta bug still torments me. I heard once what version from M&M6 limited edition doesn't have this bug. Is this true?
Limited Edition includes the patched version of MM3, which fixes the Brothers quest (as well as a few other bugs, such as the crash in the swamps, the crash in arena fight 76, as well as a few more).

Ooh, I didn't know that there was a patched version of M&M3.

I'm guessing that it's also available on the Special Edition of M&M6, since the difference between the two is minimal (holographic CD's).
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Unkillable Cat said:
I'm guessing that it's also available on the Special Edition of M&M6
At this point, any version of MM3 that you find combined with anything will definitely be the patched version: M&M Trilogy, MM6 Limited/Special, M&M Classics/Archives... they're all the patched one. The only way to get the old one would be to find a download of the original (unlikely IMO) or if you still have the original floppies. I think there was a way to check the version (maybe on the menu screen at the beginning?) but I'm not sure. I guess the easiest way would be to cheat in a super-party then try and enter the crash square in the swamps (area F2, but I can't remember exact coordinates).
 

Fowyr

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All my versions of M&M3 are unpatched.
And yes, freeze in F2 (4,2) is present. I now trying to download Limited Edition.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Admiral jimbob said:
Hm, I think I got the Brother Delta bug on the ZOG version of M&M3.
Really? That's odd. It's LE right? I thought that one was just MM6 combined with Classics (which is definitely patched, as I've played that one). I can't imagine why they'd go back to the old unpatched version.

Fowyr said:
All my versions of M&M3 are unpatched.
Out of curiosity, which ones are these?
 

Luzur

Good Sir
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Feb 12, 2009
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Swedish Empire
well, on my old original 3,5 MM3 disks the bugs are present, but on my MM trilogy they are not.

so every game version released after 1991 (i think i remember reading of these bugs in some newsgroup in the middle of the 90's and also saw an ad of a free fix if you sent in your faulty disks or something.) is going to be the patched version.
 

Fowyr

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One looks like old russian pirate release, second - have another crack, but game files are same. Third - was probably from Ultimate Might and Magic Archives.
 

Fowyr

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I started new game in the third version, gained some advantage with doe meister and orb meister, stormed the Windabar and of course, brother Delta is working correctly and game not freezes in the swamp. But if I copy savegame from first two versions - bugs remains. ARGH! I want to smash my head on the keyboard.
 

Sceptic

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Divinity: Original Sin
Luzur said:
so every game version released after 1991 is going to be the patched version.
Well yeah, that's the year they released the patch.

Fowyr said:
One looks like old russian pirate release, second - have another crack, but game files are same.
FILTHY PIRATE.

doe meister and orb meister
CHEATER TOO!

But if I copy savegame from first two versions - bugs remains. ARGH! I want to smash my head on the keyboard.
That's what happens to pirates and cheaters :smug:

I'm surprised the save import worked actually, IIRC original saves do not load at all in the patched version.
 

Unkillable Cat

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But did NWC ever release the M&M3 patch as a standalone patch program? I never found it, which is why for many years I thought that M&M3 was cursed to be bugged forevermore.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
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Divinity: Original Sin
Unkillable Cat said:
But did NWC ever release the M&M3 patch as a standalone patch program?
I don't think so. Back then there was no way to get the patch to people anyway, and besides they offered to ship you the new disks free of charge. I don't think patches caught on until 93 or so, and even then the only reliable way to get them was through those magazines with CD's in them.
 

Fowyr

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Sceptic said:
FILTHY PIRATE.
No, I'm quite clean pirate extraordinare.
FRTSF016.gif


;)


Btw, I finished Disciples of Steel. Final dungeon really bugged on the lower levels, but finishable. I remember mondblut encontered some critical bug in it and was defeated Variz with the help of army.
M&M1 soon will be next. I even found papers with Sorpigal map! :M
 

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