The Blistering Stupidity of Fallout 3

[tuluse]

Actually the ideal has no chance to ensure. Caesar's Legion is a total cult of personality and as soon as he dies the whole thing is going to collapse.

 

[Infinitron]

Actually the ideal has no chance to ensure. Caesar's Legion is a total cult of personality and as soon as he dies the whole thing is going to collapse.

Except when you kill him with Boone, who suddenly tells you "Actually, no, they have a succession set up and everything, NOTHING WILL CHANGE". I felt like that was kind of an ass-pull

 

[Clockwork Knight]

To be fair, Caesar must have studied what happened to the original and probably would have taken measures to prevent his new roman civilization from ending like the previous one. His dislike for NCR's bloated bureaucracy shows that, at least.

The alternative would be to make him essential because you'd have to radically change the gameworld as soon as you shoot him on the face

 

[DraQ]

Thread has turned into battle of the newfags.

Working as intended.
Fight or die, newfags.

Two n00bs enter, one man leaves.

 

[Lhynn]

Ive literally never let vulpes inculta leave nipton alive.

 

[skaraher]

Inculta is a bro and you should be ashamed.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_endings

Lanius Ending is not a collapse of the Legion but is a degenerate machete-rapefest for everyone else.

 

[Vikter]

I recently got New Vegas on a Steam sale (although I have played it before), and compared to FO3, it really is much better in the RPG aspect. In FO3, I just played it like a first-person GTA. "Yay! I can kill anyone!"
It's still kinda weird how the new Fallout games seem to try to get the furthest away from a human world. In New Vegas this isn't so obvious, but in 3 it is really empty.

I will use an unfair example: in Wasteland 2, there are a lot of people, in groups, towns or whatever, but they exist, and they try to survive. In Fallout 3, there are like 10 people in a town in the middle of nowhere, and then other 5 people in an isolated town kinda close to the other, and there is also a crumbled house with someone close. Why would people do this after a war? Why would they willingly isolate themselves and send traders across a huge region full of monsters just because? It makes no sense that:

1. They don't care about refurbishing anything;
2. They don't care about economy or producing food/materials for trading;
3. They are immune to social aspects, and they don't care about leaders, politics or any of the sort.

Like I said, and I'm probably repeating myself: New Vegas makes it a little more believable with farms and small groups actively trying to have leaders, but oh well. Obsidian is out, and now that Fallout 4 is more focused in crafting and tower defense, I don't believe there will be space for rebooting their world design philosophy. I better get ready for kilometers of wasteland padding to get to a stupid quest because the plot demands me to do so.

 

[Gozma]

I'm still buttblasted about the Legion sucking. The worst thing is that they had a backstory where the Legion had lost to the NCR at the dam once beforehand. The whole thing hinges on them being a looming cataclysm and instead they made it seem like there's no obvious reason they wouldn't lose again, just like it happened before when PC H. Christ wasn't around.

AFAIK it was for the old Van Buren Burned Man backstory no one gave a shit about. Who cares.

They got caught in between making the Legion be an army of orcs that drive the RPG badguy plot and a faction a player that doesn't have an Always Evilest Choice Taker PC might actually join and didn't do a good job of either.

 

[Metro]

As someone else mentioned in another thread; it doesn't help that Caesar is a condescending pseudo-intellectual douche.

 

[Surf Solar]

He would fit in perfectly in GD

 

[Vikter]

To be fair, maybe it wasn't supposed to be a purely moral choice, but a bigger one. Two centuries after a nuclear outbreak, would you rather see incompetent people like the NCR in charge or an evil group that actually offers some social advantages?
It's easy for us to consider the Legion evil because we have the luxury of a moral compass as our utmost priority. If you had fewer resources to survive, siding with the superior group could be an option, especially if they accept you.
Of course, this is too near-sighted, but a primitive foundation focused on survival and organization is a start for a desperate mankind.

 

[Lemming42]

To be fair, maybe it wasn't supposed to be a purely moral choice, but a bigger one. Two centuries after a nuclear outbreak, would you rather see incompetent people like the NCR in charge or an evil group that actually offers some social advantages?
It's easy for us to consider the Legion evil because we have the luxury of a moral compass as our utmost priority. If you had fewer resources to survive, siding with the superior group could be an option, especially if they accept you.
Of course, this is too near-sighted, but a primitive foundation focused on survival and organization is a start for a desperate mankind.

Siding with a brutal faction in exchange for security and resources might make more sense in the pre-Fallout 1 era, but by the time of New Vegas, California is doing incredibly well under NCR rule and there's no reason why it couldn't work for the frontier Mojave too. The Legion have come about 200 years too late to be anything other than a band of shits coming to tear down what everyone else is trying to build.

 

[Metro]

Immediate stability, sure. But if something happens to Caesar the Legion collapses and chances are the strong would prey on the weak unchecked.

 

[28.8bps Modem]

I think what New Vegas lacks is towns administrated by the two warring factions so you can actually see what you're supporting. All we really get are military encampments.

There's only the town that isn't too happy about being annexed by the NCR and the town that's genocided by Ceasar's legion, so neither faction is exactly putting their best foot forward. In Fallout 2, you could see what places like the NCR, Vault City and New Reno were like before you decided whether that was a cause you'd be interested in supporting.

I suppose it all comes down to the shitty engine, where a "town" of 4 people is seriously taxing the available RAM. I suppose it's hard to put any sort of diversity or ambiguity in to a faction that only has half a dozen people in it.

 

[Mech]

 

[Ninjerk]

 

[Vikter]

To be fair, maybe it wasn't supposed to be a purely moral choice, but a bigger one. Two centuries after a nuclear outbreak, would you rather see incompetent people like the NCR in charge or an evil group that actually offers some social advantages?
It's easy for us to consider the Legion evil because we have the luxury of a moral compass as our utmost priority. If you had fewer resources to survive, siding with the superior group could be an option, especially if they accept you.
Of course, this is too near-sighted, but a primitive foundation focused on survival and organization is a start for a desperate mankind.

Siding with a brutal faction in exchange for security and resources might make more sense in the pre-Fallout 1 era, but by the time of New Vegas, California is doing incredibly well under NCR rule and there's no reason why it couldn't work for the frontier Mojave too. The Legion have come about 200 years too late to be anything other than a band of shits coming to tear down what everyone else is trying to build.

You're right about that, however there are some people in Mojave who still feel unsafe about the whole situation. It still comes down to a political conflict than a moral one, in my opinion, since a few merchants praise the Legion for helping them grow, while the minorities expect the Legion to fuck them over (which is true).

However, it is still more interesting and complex than the Enclave, but that's not saying much. It's still an unbalanced faction.

 

[Infinitron]

Factions that confuse some people by being basically irredeemably evil, yet with odd gestures of being morally understandable, may be a Sawyerian motif. Do a search for Volourn's griping about the Legion of the Chimera from Icewind Dale 2.

Of course, you couldn't join that Legion.

 

[bminorkey]

What I'm a little curious about is why was Bethesda interested in the Fallout IP for an open world RPG? Like, Fallout 3 has nothing in common with its predecessors and it's not like Fallout 1-2 had such a huge following at the time. Why didn't they use another IP or even come up with their own?

 

[svvvs]

What I'm a little curious about is why was Bethesda interested in the Fallout IP for an open world RPG? Like, Fallout 3 has nothing in common with its predecessors and it's not like Fallout 1-2 had such a huge following at the time. Why didn't they use another IP or even come up with their own?

Because they are really lazy hacks. Besides they knew fallout ip has a big fan crowd standing behind to exploit and that equals $.

 

[Dreaad]

What I'm a little curious about is why was Bethesda interested in the Fallout IP for an open world RPG? Like, Fallout 3 has nothing in common with its predecessors and it's not like Fallout 1-2 had such a huge following at the time. Why didn't they use another IP or even come up with their own?

Todd Howard loves fallout, he has always loved fallout. This is his way of giving back to the world part of the wonder he had as a young kid playing fallout 1.

Now please go buy Fallout 4, the game, the t-shirt, the bob stand collection and the pip boy. It's the only way to make sure that Todd Howard keeps bringing the love to his favorite franchise.

 

[Aoyagi]

What I'm a little curious about is why was Bethesda interested in the Fallout IP for an open world RPG? Like, Fallout 3 has nothing in common with its predecessors and it's not like Fallout 1-2 had such a huge following at the time. Why didn't they use another IP or even come up with their own?

Because they don't have the creative capacity to make a new universe for their sci-fi Elder Scrolls spin-off.

 

[Dustin542]

What I'm a little curious about is why was Bethesda interested in the Fallout IP for an open world RPG? Like, Fallout 3 has nothing in common with its predecessors and it's not like Fallout 1-2 had such a huge following at the time. Why didn't they use another IP or even come up with their own?

Because they don't have the creative capacity to make a new universe for their sci-fi Elder Scrolls spin-off.

Unlike Obsidian who can while trying to pitch a kickstarter so they don't go under.

 

[Animal]

Todd Howard loves fallout, he has always loved fallout. This is his way of giving back to the world part of the wonder he had as a young kid playing fallout 1.

 

[Vikter]

What I'm a little curious about is why was Bethesda interested in the Fallout IP for an open world RPG? Like, Fallout 3 has nothing in common with its predecessors and it's not like Fallout 1-2 had such a huge following at the time. Why didn't they use another IP or even come up with their own?

Because they don't have the creative capacity to make a new universe for their sci-fi Elder Scrolls spin-off.

They don't seem to have the creative capacity to use an already established IP either.