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The best DRM system in the world starts to un-rent games

el Supremo

Augur
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I have lost all my Valve's faith, when the games (entire HL series) became unplayable one beautifull day. They were supposedly put into offline mode weeks erlier, when all of the sudden the Steam demanded an internet connection, before it will let my play my games. While I, and my laptop, have been far away, in the wilderness.
After I finally returned to a civilisation, I promptly sold my account, just after re-activating it, and proceeded to hate the steam with burnig passion from that day on.
 

Markman

da Blitz master
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Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
That steamcalculator thing doesnt work, when I search by my username "dallaboo" it tells me i dont exist, when going by the number it tells me i dont have any games.
Someone help me here, i'm really interested what my shit is worth.
 

User was nabbed fit

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Topher said:
ViolentOpposition said:
LordDenton said:
It's also funny that these same retards think that Valve, after going bankrupt, will work on patching Steam out of their hundreds of games. :lol:

I dunno, I mean... I think you'd be even more retarded to think that STEAM would have to patch every single game. Or completely ignorant of how their 'protection' works.
Hint: you can already play your games offline; do you think they magically apply some kind of "crack" every time you do that? :retarded:

They would simply release a final STEAM client which wouldn't look for the main server/authentication anymore. A final 'offline mode.'

Who's going to host that client for download 5 years later? What happens when you buy a older copy of a game that used steam after steam is gone like DoW2? Offline mode can't generate you a CD key any longer.

Who wouldn't host it? Every website to do with gaming would likely host it... there are many people who would need it in such an event. It's not a large file, so it would be in websites' interests to host the client to attract people.

As for CD keys, one would hope that you keep those written down somewhere or that you would be emailed all the keys to your products. It's doable. I'm not saying that's how it would necessarily happen, but it's a realistic possibility. Of course the pessimists will say, "NO NO THEY WON'T DO THAT!", without any real proof.

Personally, I only buy games on it when they're doing special deals (under ten bux). Retail websites usually turn out to be cheaper on new releases. So I don't have much to lose anyway.

I just don't get all the hate. STEAM is clearly not going anywhere in the next five years minimum, so what's the problem? Even if they did go under in eight years, what would your games be worth by then? At the first signs of trouble, you would just stop buying games.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
Markman said:
That steamcalculator thing doesnt work, when I search by my username "dallaboo" it tells me i dont exist, when going by the number it tells me i dont have any games.
Someone help me here, i'm really interested what my shit is worth.
Go to your Steam community page and click profile and look at the URL. You'll either get a name (Like dallaboo) or a string of numbers. Take whatever it is and slap it in the calculator.
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
41,514
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VO, how much did Valve pay you for those posts?

also, even if Steam, GOG or the entire game developer market crash i can still just go into the other room and dust my large, all-the-classics-you-love game collection without having to worry shit will be gone.

feels good man.
 

User was nabbed fit

Guest
@ Luzur. All the STEAM games I could ever want and a million TF2 hats. No, but seriously, let me address all the hate towards STEAM.

1) What if STEAM goes under? I'll lose all my games!

Okay, first of all, let's address the probability of this. STEAM has already established its foothold. It has a massive customer base. This is like theorising that Google will go tits up (okay, Google is infinitely larger, but in relative terms, STEAM is to digital distribution what Google is to people who use a search engine). Sure, no company is safe from losing market share to their competition. However, it's not like STEAM could ever lose ALL of its customers, OR anywhere near that. Let's be realistic, please. A business like Yahoo is completely redundant when you think that something like Google is just around the corner, and yet the former is still up and running after many years. Much like the way Yahoo still has enough people to support itself, it's unlikely STEAM will ever lack enough willing customers.

STEAM is the dominant player in digital distribution, and will remain so in the foreseeable future. Even in a far off future, new forms of competition would still be unlikely to completely destroy them. Probability is on the side of STEAM never disappearing, unless they decide to pack their bags.


2) So what if they DO decide to pack their bags for some random reason? I won't be able to play my games anymore!

They've already said they'd ensure your games will remain playable long after the unlikely event that they would disappear. Okay, it's not like they're obliged to uphold that claim, but it makes sense from a business perspective. In the world of business, upholding your reputation means everything; it's not like the people behind STEAM would just disappear off the face of the Earth if they decided to call it quits with STEAM. Those people would go on to other projects, and the better the reputation behind them, the better their prospects would be. It would cost very little for them, and it would be entirely in their interests, if they ensured that your games were still playable if their servers went down permanently.

Note: you can already play your games while STEAM is offline (it can periodically ask you to reconnect to the internet if the client stays offline for a prolonged period though). If they ever decide to close their doors (because I doubt they'll ever be forced to), then the most logical thing for them to do would be to release a final client which wouldn't check with the authorisation servers before allowing you to play a game (and it wouldn't ask you to periodically connect). A bit like one, big, final, ultimate 'offline mode.' Any CD keys and other details tied to your games could easily be sent to your email. It's a very, very realistic possibility. It'd be their whole reputation at stake... it's not like they would abandon millions of customers. That would be commercial suicide for any of their future careers, when the other option (to release a final client) wouldn't even be that hard to do.


2) But I won't be able to download the games anymore...

It's not like they're going to wake up one day and say, "Come on guys, let's pull the plug on the servers!" If they ever did come to the decision to pack up, then they would announce this well in advance (months, if not a year at least -- again, for PR's sake). You'd have plenty of time to download all the games you have tied to your account. Then all you'd have to do is copy the STEAM game files to a DVD, or a hard drive, or such. Which, by the way, you can already do (to save having to download games from STEAM every time you format, for example). There you go, there's your physical copy you can use to reinstall the files at any time, even if you can't download them from the STEAM servers anymore.


Again, all of this is damn unlikely in any kind of foreseeable future anyway. Don't refuse to use STEAM, thereby passing by on some good deals from time to time, just because there's an infinitely small chance they might not exist in 8 years. Most of your games would be practically worthless by then anyway. In my case, I only buy games from them when they're really cheap, because those are the only real deals that are on STEAM anyway. I mostly buy new titles from retail, because in 90% of cases I can find them cheaper than on STEAM. So I wouldn't have much to lose anyway. In 5 to 8 years time, I could probably buy my entire STEAM collection for fifty bucks. Hardly a huge loss, and on the plus side, I am getting some nice deals on STEAM from time to time.

If it's not for you, that's fine, but there's no reason to go apeshit against people who can see it's good for what it is.
 

Temaperacl

Erudite
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
193
ViolentOpposition said:
However, it's not like STEAM could ever lose ALL of its customers, OR anywhere near that.
It doesn't have to lost any customers - it just has to be unprofitable enough for a long enough period of time.

One could argue that this is even easier for STEAM as people who have bought games in the past are still a drain on the bottom line even if they are no longer buying games. Assuming STEAM keeps all accounts having access to all their games, this cost will just increase as time goes on, requiring STEAM to make more sales to maintain the same profit margins.

STEAM is the dominant player in digital distribution, and will remain so in the foreseeable future. Even in a far off future, new forms of competition would still be unlikely to completely destroy them. Probability is on the side of STEAM never disappearing, unless they decide to pack their bags.
I would say that this is invalid unless you can make an argument as to why new forms of competition (the form of which we do not know) are unlikely to destroy them. I would point out that major players in other fields have been destroyed in this way (Blockbuster, significantly - Hollywood Video completely).


In addition, this is not the only way a company can die. Corporate missteps can take currently profitable businesses and drive them into the ground - overreaching into new fields while ignoring the existing fields or just making poor choices in how the current field is being handled, for example.



They've already said they'd ensure your games will remain playable long after the unlikely event that they would disappear. Okay, it's not like they're obliged to uphold that claim, but it makes sense from a business perspective. In the world of business, upholding your reputation means everything; it's not like the people behind STEAM would just disappear off the face of the Earth if they decided to call it quits with STEAM. Those people would go on to other projects, and the better the reputation behind them, the better their prospects would be.
Except the reputation would only follow a few of the people and would only matter if they were entering a limited selection of fields. Depending on who makes the decisions, it may not even matter - after being bought out, the company buying them out may quietly drop that claim, or the situation may be such that there is simply not the time or money to make those changes.

One could argue that the fact that they are have such issues where they are unable to fully guarantee the games are playable when you want now casts doubts on any claims that they will be playable in the future.

It would cost very little for them, and it would be entirely in their interests, if they ensured that your games were still playable if their servers went down permanently.
It would cost little for them? Maybe changes to the launcher would cost little, but what about maintaining the server to distribute the launcher? Depending on why they are closing, keeping such a server up and running may not even be an option they are given. This assumes the (probable) case that the change is in one place and not something that has to be done to every game individually.

Note: you can already play your games while STEAM is offline
I'm not sure how it is now, but previously you had to specifically enable that. If you didn't have it enabled and had suprise network downtime, you were out of luck.

(it can periodically ask you to reconnect to the internet if the client stays offline for a prolonged period though).
Is this a required reconnect or really just giving the option?

If they ever decide to close their doors (because I doubt they'll ever be forced to), then the most logical thing for them to do would be to release a final client which wouldn't check with the authorisation servers before allowing you to play a game (and it wouldn't ask you to periodically connect). A bit like one, big, final, ultimate 'offline mode.'
This would be the "right" thing to do, but companies don't always choose the right thing.


Any CD keys and other details tied to your games could easily be sent to your email. It's a very, very realistic possibility. It'd be their whole reputation at stake...
When companies are closing, there is often a lot more on their mind than the future reputation of the company that is closing. And individual reputations were addressed above.

2) But I won't be able to download the games anymore...

It's not like they're going to wake up one day and say, "Come on guys, let's pull the plug on the servers!" If they ever did come to the decision to pack up, then they would announce this well in advance (months, if not a year at least -- again, for PR's sake).
You seem to be basing a lot of your argument on PR, but you haven't given any (to me) convincing argument that it actually would be a significant blow to their reputation, especially in a non-voluntary closure.

You'd have plenty of time to download all the games you have tied to your account. Then all you'd have to do is copy the STEAM game files to a DVD, or a hard drive, or such. Which, by the way, you can already do (to save having to download games from STEAM every time you format, for example). There you go, there's your physical copy you can use to reinstall the files at any time, even if you can't download them from the STEAM servers anymore.
Assuming you were monitoring the situation instead of coming back to a game you hadn't played in a while to find everything shut down already.

Again, all of this is damn unlikely in any kind of foreseeable future anyway. Don't refuse to use STEAM, thereby passing by on some good deals from time to time, just because there's an infinitely small chance they might not exist in 8 years. Most of your games would be practically worthless by then anyway.
Worthless in 8 years? With the quality of some games today that is a distinct possibility. But then again, I am still regularly playing games that I bought over 20 years ago (More than I am playing recent games, in fact), so this argument does not hold a lot of water for me.

In my case, I only buy games from them when they're really cheap, because those are the only real deals that are on STEAM anyway. I mostly buy new titles from retail, because in 90% of cases I can find them cheaper than on STEAM. So I wouldn't have much to lose anyway. In 5 to 8 years time, I could probably buy my entire STEAM collection for fifty bucks. Hardly a huge loss, and on the plus side, I am getting some nice deals on STEAM from time to time.
If you can still find them.



Personally, I now avoid Steam because I gave it a try and I have had a couple situations where my game is unplayable for a period of time - it has only happened a couple times, and the periods were never more than a day, but for me that is enough to not deal with them - game unavailability should be due to problems on my end or due to a poorly coded game, not due to some third party. Instead I stick to digital distributers that don't include DRM that can make my game unplayable when I choose to play it.

If other people want to use it, that is their choice and I'm not going to attack them for it. And I don't think STEAM is going anywhere any time soon, but I do not think that it is nearly as "safe" as you are claiming.
 

Metro

Arcane
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Why do we have to have this same stupid thread again and again? It's just a place for pretentious fucks to come off as sounding superior over a trivial issue. I think I've spent maybe $200 over two years on my entire Steam collection -- not everyone here is a college student or unemployed bum. Who gives a fuck if it goes offline five years from now. I certainly don't so why should you... I mean other than to make a jerk-off thread about 'game ownership' which is the height of irony anyway when hardly any people here actually buy games. Oh, but I forgot 99.99999999999999% of games produced in the last ten years aren't worth buying, hurp durp.

Someone needs to add a beating a dead horse emote for this forum. :M
 

User was nabbed fit

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Temaperacl said:
I would point out that major players in other fields have been destroyed in this way (Blockbuster, significantly - Hollywood Video completely).

They have been beaten down because their methods have become antiquated by now. People have other, better options than going to Blockbuster... and most of them either involve torrents or a legitimate form of online subscription service. STEAM? Well, I don't see what's going to replace digital distribution. Maybe the day we'll have the technology to teleport things to other places.

Temaperacl said:
Worthless in 8 years? With the quality of some games today that is a distinct possibility. But then again, I am still regularly playing games that I bought over 20 years ago (More than I am playing recent games, in fact), so this argument does not hold a lot of water for me.

I meant in monetary terms. The rest of your post feels like a lot of conjecture on my points. You're basically saying, "BUT they might not", to a lot of the things I've suggested.

Yes, well, they might not. Nobody knows for sure. We'll see, if it ever comes to it (and I hope it won't, but I don't have to hope much because they're doing great for now). However, in the meantime, I will continue to buy older games on STEAM for a few bucks, while buying all new releases from retail. If the horsemen of the apocalypse ever do show up, I really won't have lost much... but I will have gained more than enough entertainment from some of the cheap titles I've gotten.

If it were EA who were behind STEAM, I'd be a bit more worried. Valve aren't perfect, in fact they are getting a little bit more greedy, but they're still not on the level of EA and co.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Metro said:
Who gives a fuck if it goes offline five years from now. I certainly don't so why should you...

Debate is not your strong point. Read the above again to find out why. If you still can't figure out why I say this, then consider your right to make arguments revoked. For everyone's sake.

other than to make a jerk-off thread about 'game ownership' which is the height of irony anyway when hardly any people here actually buy games. Oh, but I forgot 99.99999999999999% of games produced in the last ten years aren't worth buying, hurp durp.

I'm one of the exceptions to this. I know of at least two others here on the Codex who are also exempt from your ranting statement. Although I rarely buy games these days, I do still buy them. And I buy them as close to DRM-free as possible, which means ignoring Steam altogether, except for Valve products.

Why? Because the PC is the only platform with real backwards compatibility. Although Microsoft have done a damn good job of trying to ruin that with new Windows versions, it is still easy for me to boot up and play a game I bought over 20 years ago. I can get all of my games (again, Valve products exempted) running on my current system, whenever I want to, regardless of how my internet access is.

That is a right that I have grown accustomed to having, being able to game on my own terms. Steam is trying its best to take that right away from me. So I don't let it.

Someone needs to add a beating a dead horse emote for this forum.

I do agree with this.
 

Multi-headed Cow

Guest
Fuck, Metro has been ignored 4 times and I've been ignored 0. Maybe this just means I'm the most insidious of all popamoles. Slowly and carefully burrowing my way into the hivemind and corrupting it with my declining musk.
 

lefthandblack

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Unfortunately, the masses continue to gulp down the kool-aid, causing steam to be well on it's way to becoming a monopoly. I was hoping that Impulse was going to become a viable competitor, then Wardell sold it to GayStop for a huge pile of jew-gold. Thank the gaming gods for GOG, from what I've seen from them so far, they can have all my monies.

I'm preparing for steam's eventual monopoly by learning all that I can about tastefully raping steam out of infected game files. I'm waiting for a GOTY version of New Vegas to use as a guinea-pig.

If a GOTY version of New Vegas comes out, I will:

- buy the game, install and (briefly) subject my PC to steam

- let steam do it's thing with the updates and whatnot

- copy and back up the patched game directory to use as a base

- remove steam from my PC by the roots, then wash my Windows install with fire and bleach

- Hex rape the relevant game files until steam is purged from them


Then again, I may just say fuck all that shit and just continue to avoid any game requiring steam.
 

Admiral jimbob

gay as all hell
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truck stops and toilet stalls
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Steam isn't that bad and the deals are good. Despite their potential for monopoly abuse, they've actually gotten better with time; bans without reason or warning used to happen enough to make me wary about the service, but they're incredibly rare now. Not that that's not still an issue, and on principal I prefer to support GOG when I can. That's about the extent of the feelings I can muster on the matter. I guess I should be screaming something about retarded sheeple and their iPods or something, but I'm just really not sure how you can see it as a big enough issue to care that much about.
 

Redlands

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
983
It probably would irritate me more if there were games being released that required Steam that I actually wanted to get, but the only two would either require me to purchase a Bethesda-associated game and one that turned out to be a clusterfuck, so wasn't/kind of glad I didn't end up getting them anyway. I mostly play old games and indies now, and haven't needed Steam yet.

Just as a theoretical, though: I'd still be cautious because, even if Valve is still around, the people in charge now may not be. And anyone new might not be as inclined towards "the right thing/the lesser evil" as the current lot are according to the Steam proponents.
 

Metro

Arcane
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Messages
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Unkillable Cat said:
Debate is not your strong point. Read the above again to find out why. If you still can't figure out why I say this, then consider your right to make arguments revoked. For everyone's sake.

It's hardly a 'debate' nor was I attempting to engage in one -- it's the same garbage again and again. Why don't we debate Oblivion for the thousandth time? Hell, the thread was started by a blatant troll.

I know of at least two others here on the Codex who are also exempt from your ranting statement.

When people have rational discussions here, I engage in them, when I see a thread where the majority of people are just spouting the same garbage I respond in generalities.

Steam is trying its best to take that right away from me. So I don't let it.

Some people here present valid arguments and do so in a non-asinine manner. I credit you with being one of those people but that is few and far between in the sea of twenty-somethings looking for e-cred.
 

Mangoose

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Don't understand the arguments. I buy from Steam because it's cheap. If my games get taken away then I'll just pirate. Big deal.
 

SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
16,320
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I will never buy anything on steam, thus i will probably not buy new games, the way things are going.

Every new pc game will probably be multiplayer somehow (even if it is just achievement posturing).
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
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Insert clever insult here
Oh, so VO is to Steam what Xi is to OnLive :lol:

Nice PR-pamphlet there, indeed. As to people wanting options, I can -once again- recommmend GamersGate. You can download the game files and store them just as easily as if you'd have d/l them from GOG and there's no additional DRM involved - all the games have the DRM that the developer put it. Unfortunately they are bit pricey and don't have firehouse sales that often if ever.
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
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Messages
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Swedish Empire
you guys are all such tools for the corporations.
 

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