"Support LGBT Rights & Help Create Our PC-RPG Game!" - The Seven Sages of the Bamboo Groves

[Clockwork Knight]

Wu isn't backing this because those guys are total noobs and won't benefit xir networking.

I don't give a shit what you are, gay, straight, bi, beast, what the fuck ever.. BUT WHY... WHY do some gays have wave their sexuality in the face of society so much?

Look at ME, I'm gay! I'm so gay,.. get it? We're gay! SO GAY DUDE...

WE GET IT. Protip: If you wanna be considered a normal human being and not a freak, then start acting normal.

They did that for most of human history until now, those who don't live in decadent utopias like SanFran or Sweden still do. Didn't work. Can't blame them for wanting to go a little crazy once in a while.

Am I supposed to know that "LGBT" means?

A codexer who doesn't knows what fags, lezzies and trannies are? Shamefur dispray

 

[Agesilaus]

well, its kinda gay that some hunky looking fagservant gives him a half eaten peach and the kings says its awesome and then later when he is not hunky anymore he's like no fuck you i dont want your shitty peach
an independent observer could be there at that moment and note that such behavior is pretty gay, maybe it's not extremely gay (else the story would be called 'the cum covered peach') but still not the manly thing to do

but even then this doesn't prove that china was faggy pre-Han because we're talking about the guy ruling the place, maybe peasant fags in villages got publicly castrated, we don't know.

It's about context, I agree. The relationship between the king and courtier allows for this kind of behaviour without it being obviously homosexual. I view it as him fawning on the king like a loyal servant, making a show of giving up something to the king/father figure. Then, the king is happy that he is loyal and thoughtful.

The peach thing is also part of a larger story about the king and the courtier; it's a series of examples where the king thought the guy was doing something nice, and then when they grew apart over the years he reinterpreted all the events. The peach example is not singled out, and no mention is made of them getting it on. It's almost like saying that the story about the courtier stealing the chariot to see his sick mother is a reference to incest.

To call someone handsome or strong or whatever just seems like an honest observation or a compliment, too; kind of like saying to a guy today that he's in good shape or that he dressed well for a special event. Especially in pre-Han China, where I just don't see anything about homosexuality.

In Ancient Greece, I can at least interpret a comment like "he's a strong, good looking man" as something potentially homosexual. A few paragraphs later, the text might even spell it out: "then the good looking guy had sex with some other guy." Without that last bit, though, you can't conclude that a guy is complimenting a guy because they're both gay; that's a huge leap of faith. Even if it's about sexual desire; think of Adonis, for example. He's described by men as being beautiful, but all the stories are about females falling in love with him. The stories are heterosexual in nature.

Whether you're looking at Ancient China or Ancient Greece, though, I don't think the modern labels work at all. It's not like people necessarily slept with only guys, or only women. It doesn't make sense to call ancient people homosexual or heterosexual, unless you know enough about the individual (like he literally wrote a text saying he strictly sleeps with men or women, not both). You can see that a great deal of them had heterosexual relationships (because they had kids or were at least married), and then if you really want you can see if they said anything else about their personal sex lives.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Most of recorded history was like social status > most other things. That's why no one cared if Monsieur was a flamboyant fag and brother to the most catholic king.

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

WE GET IT. Protip: If you wanna be considered a normal human being and not a freak, then start acting normal.

 

[Goblino]

an independent observer could be there at that moment

 

[Telengard]

Wait, what? Where is all the male on male action in Ancient China?

I think of Ancient China as being pre-Han; you mention Ancient Greece, so I feel like you're kind of on the same page, but the Roman Empire is obviously later.

I am literally unaware of any reference at all to homosexuality in pre-Han China. If you have a single citation, I'd be interested, if only for trivia purposes. I know the fentao story is a reference to homosexuality today, but the ancient source for that story doesn't mention man on man action. I've read the HanFeiZi, and I recall it being in a chapter about rhetoric. Without picking it up again, here is my memory of how it goes:

A king and a young male courtier are walking through a garden, and the courtier is eating a peach. The peach is so delicious that the courtier splits it in half and gives one half to the king so that he may also enjoy it. At the time, the king is pleased that the courtier is so thoughtful. Years later, when the courtier is old and ugly and they are no longer friends, the king remembers the story differently: "that shithead gave me a half-eaten peach!"

HanFeiZi also relates some other stories about the king and courtier, none about homosexuality. The other that I remember is that the courtier took the king's carriage without permission in order to visit his sick mother; the king said "oh such a filial boy, how nice" at the time, but then said "that bastard stole my chariot once, too!" Basically, when the king liked the courtier, all the events were thought of positively, and then when the king hated the courtier they were remembered in a negative light.

I didn't notice anything overtly homosexual about the story, and I assume that interpretation is not mentioned until centuries later. I think the closest the original text gets to homosexuality is Han Fei Zi saying that the king thinks the courtier is young and handsome.

Right now, my understanding is that there are 0 references to homosexuality pre-Han, unless you want to interpret the story in the HanFeiZi as being gay. In which case... you have 1 reference in all of the pre-Han Chinese history. Compare that to Ancient Greece, which I fully agree featured the whole smorgasbord of sexual possibilities.

I mentioned a book that is totally devoted to the subject of Chinese gayness through the ages, starting in the Bronze. And that was an early work. There's a lot more now.

 

[Agesilaus]

I mentioned a book that is totally devoted to the subject of Chinese gayness through the ages, starting in the Bronze. And that was an early work. There's a lot more now.

You mentioned a modern book that's named after a story that took place at the very end of the Western Han.

Maybe you have citations to ancient authors. That would be on point, and I could keep it in mind in case I ever find myself in an Ancient Chinese homosexual trivia competition.


Never trust people who talk about the ancients but can't refer you to a primary source.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Unless it's an old man who approaches you and your friends at the tavern. Then you shut up and fucking listen about the ancient prophecies.

 

[Courtier]

Years later, when the courtier is old and ugly and they are no longer friends, the king remembers the story differently: "that shithead gave me a half-eaten peach!" [...]

The other that I remember is that the courtier took the king's carriage without permission in order to visit his sick mother; the king said "oh such a filial boy, how nice" at the time, but then said "that bastard stole my chariot once, too!" Basically, when the king liked the courtier, all the events were thought of positively, and then when the king hated the courtier they were remembered in a negative light.

'the cum covered peach'

I also recall reading a version of this story recently, but the theme was mostly the importance of reputation. The courtier in question was a man named Mi Tzu-hsia, who was renowned for his supreme civility and graciousness in the court of the Wei kingdom; because of this he became the emperor's favorite. When he and the emperor took a stroll, he gave him a half-eaten peach he could not finish. And indeed he also took the coach to visit his mother, even though according to the law ''whoever rides secretly in the ruler's coach shall have his feet cut off''.

Because of how he was seen as a person in general, the ruler praised him for being so thoughtful for sharing the peach and dutiful to his mother. But later, when envious courtiers started gossiping about him and he was made out to be devious and arrogant, as you say, the ruler came to see him in a different light. Afterwards he was presumably executed.

So the moral of the story is: ''It doesn't matter how much of a hunk you are, if you act too gay.''

 

[Telengard]

You mentioned a modern book that's named after a story that took place at the very end of the Western Han.

Maybe you have citations to ancient authors. That would be on point, and I could keep it in mind in case I ever find myself in an Ancient Chinese homosexual trivia competition.


Never trust people who talk about the ancients but can't refer you to a primary source.

The book itself is simply a chronological listing of sources, with quotes and pictures. Now, while I will not vouch for the author's accuracy, nor will I vouch for the scholars who came after him, decrying the book that is about the entire history for punning on its favorite story from amongst the bunch is a bit offsides.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Have to pass the security check to make an account

 

[Agesilaus]

The book itself is simply a chronological listing of sources, with quotes and pictures. Now, while I will not vouch for the author's accuracy, nor will I vouch for the scholars who came after him, decrying the book that is about the entire history for punning on its favorite story from amongst the bunch is a bit offsides.

I see words but no primary sources. If you don't have any citations/quotes from pre-Han texts, or you just don't want to share them, then just say so. It's really not a big deal.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Backed to receive early alpha and spam exclusive screenshots in our glorious screenshot thread. B)

Spoiler

jk

 

[Inspectah]

So. what do the QIA part means?
From LGBTQIA

 

[Roguey]

So. what do the QIA part means?
From LGBTQIA

I'm gonna guess queer, intersex, and asexual.

 

[Beastro]

Anyway, ancient China is much like ancient Greece and Rome, with plenty of male on male action. Plus, ancient China has male slut-concubines.

In Greece it was population control and to help younger men have an older influence to be what the Greeks thought every man should be (as in the direct antithesis of a flamer), a badass warrior. Bring the Ancient Greeks into the future and they'd call all the overtly homosexual men of today pussies for being so weak and unmanly (and a good deal of straight men that as well).

Romans were more focused on it being tolerable if you were of good status and you were the one doing the fucking. Hence the insulting nickname Caesar got later in life from an event early in his political and military career, The Bitch of Bithynia. Rumours spread after his star began to rise that the king of Bithynia only agreed to a diplomatic solution around a disagreement with Rome if he could fuck handsome, young Caesar. It most likely never happened, but it sums up their views of it.

Modern homosexuality has almost everything in common with modern heterosexual, monogamous romantic love that arose from the English in the Middle Ages. At the time everyone else was happy to keep marriage for politics and have mistresses for romance, but then English monarchs, soon followed by common Englishmen, began to combine the two before it eventually spread globally with British global expansion.

 

[Beastro]

So. what do the QIA part means?
From LGBTQIA

I just call it LGBBQ given how silly and encompassing it is to satisfy Social Justice people when it entails shoehorning people often at odds with one another into one massive wastebin of a category. One just has to see the hatred many gays have of bi-sexual people and that many lesbians have towards gays much less what asexual people have in common with the rest of them beyond having a sexuality that isn't hetero.

It's silly, but fits in perfectly with the Progressive love of shoving people into castes and being discriminatory to supposedly fight discrimination.

 

[Beastro]

Well... It is a very common practice for heterosexual males to affirm their sexuality.

Posting pics of hawt women, bragging about sexual prowess...

It's probably a human thing, motivated by need of affirmation or some mating ritual genetic trait.

Issue is no one would give a fuck if it was simple and parochial bragging, as what happens on your average message board or manly conversation. The difference is there's no parades of blatant sexuality and I think that comes from the vocal gay crowd being very feminine (as oppose to the quiet masculine, of whom I know many that loath the other side) and aping modern displays of femininity whereas modern masculinity has declined doing that, hence why it's considered feminine to wear make-up and wear clothing that shows off body parts considered feminine now, like the Enlightenment fashion of stockings and other pieces of clothing that draew ones eyes to a man's legs, with ones being well built and shaped being a point of pride and masculinity.

In Ancient Greece, I can at least interpret a comment like "he's a strong, good looking man" as something potentially homosexual. A few paragraphs later, the text might even spell it out: "then the good looking guy had sex with some other guy." Without that last bit, though, you can't conclude that a guy is complimenting a guy because they're both gay; that's a huge leap of faith. Even if it's about sexual desire; think of Adonis, for example. He's described by men as being beautiful, but all the stories are about females falling in love with him. The stories are heterosexual in nature.

I actually wouldn't see it that way from a Greek perspective. The Greeks and Romans were big on making masculinity out as a virtue that even the Middle Ages would find going overboard. To give such a compliment would be recognizing that a person was their cultural ideal, like calling someone today a good conscious person who thinks for themself and starts to their convictions, whatever they may be.

The Chinese stories sound more like people looking too deeply for gay shit and seeing stuff that isn't there, like people who try to find positive references to homosexuality about Ruth hugging other women when the closest there is is Jesus saying a gay Centurion he doesn't really care about him and his buttboys actions, according to possibly use of the words used in that verse.

 

[Talby]

Never trust anyone called Travis.

Ruan Ji

- was raised solely by his mother. His father died when he was only four. He was considered one of the most gifted poets of his time, a skilled musician and singer, with an odd talent for whistling. He was often accused of being a mad man as many disagreed with his belief that the only way to achieve peace was through self-acceptance and equality with all things. He was a great lover of wine, the tranquillity of nature, and he always had his nose in a book. Ruan was also a talented alchemist. His most famous quote is “Are there any rituals for man like I am?”

So being raised by a single mother really does turn you gay?

 

[Agesilaus]

I also recall reading a version of this story recently, but the theme was mostly the importance of reputation. The courtier in question was a man named Mi Tzu-hsia, who was renowned for his supreme civility and graciousness in the court of the Wei kingdom; because of this he became the emperor's favorite. When he and the emperor took a stroll, he gave him a half-eaten peach he could not finish. And indeed he also took the coach to visit his mother, even though according to the law ''whoever rides secretly in the ruler's coach shall have his feet cut off''.

Because of how he was seen as a person in general, the ruler praised him for being so thoughtful for sharing the peach and dutiful to his mother. But later, when envious courtiers started gossiping about him and he was made out to be devious and arrogant, as you say, the ruler came to see him in a different light. Afterwards he was presumably executed.

So the moral of the story is: ''It doesn't matter how much of a hunk you are, if you act too gay.''

Yep, that's definitely the same story. It's in the HanFeiZi.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Modern homosexuality has almost everything in common with modern heterosexual, monogamous romantic love that arose from the English in the Middle Ages. At the time everyone else was happy to keep marriage for politics and have mistresses for romance, but then English monarchs, soon followed by common Englishmen, began to combine the two before it eventually spread globally with British global expansion.

That's why we have 17th century English court poetry about King Bolloximian, his wife Cuntigratia, the general of the army Buggeranthus and the maid of honor Fuckadilla, not to forget the "pimp and catamite" of the king and the"Dildo maker to the Court"? They decided that that's enough of bad rap and changed their ways?

My pintle only shall my sceptre be.
My laws shall act more pleasure than command,
And with my prick I'll govern all the land.

The reminder of the play is way more NSFW and way more inclusive than any Bioware piece or this Kickstarter.

 

[SwiftCrack]

I can't believe this only has managed to attract just over 500 CAD. I guess all the loons on the internet are poor as fuck too. Explains the rise of Patreon anyway.

 

[Inspectah]

I guess feminists want to play as stronk independant black wymyn, and not as fags

 

[Immortal]

I love their pie chart.
Hmm, what could we do with the money? Ofcourse, we want money for ourselves so *staff & salaries*. Wait we don't know anything about developing games, so *Game engine development contracting* and *Character & level design contracting". Hmm, can we do the sound ourselves? I don't know, so let's put vague "Music % Sound design" and "Audio implementation" there, so that we can keep the money if we find a freeware composing program.

Hahaha

We Have no skills whatsoever so lets put the money towards that.. but don't forget us so lets give us the bulk of the money.

I'm so glad this thing didn't even break 1 000 dollars. What a slap in the face to their shit drawings and stupid ideas. Go back to bagging groceries and paying off your gender studies loans.

 

[Xathrodox86]

I wonder if they'll top the gayness of a typical Bioware game.