Some shitty Escapist piece on RPGs

[Lumpy]

Or how in certain adventure games, not having picked up a certain item early on may cause you to be completely trapped in a certain area and unable to finish the game.

I like that stuff, though alot of people wouldn't, supposedly.

Most people don't like that kind of stuff because it's fucking stupid.
Not being able to finish the game because of a clear mistake is alright, if the game is hardcore. Like in The Last Express where you lose at the end if you didn't take the egg with you when you split the train. Or if, for example, you were to piss off an important figure in a game and he sends his goons to kill you later on. That kind of failure is fine.
Not being able to finish because I didn't pick that pair of scissors in the bushes which is apparently the only one in the game's universe is the bad sort of failure, and should never exist.

 

[Kingston]

Don't punish us gamers if you've got a life.

 

[JarlFrank]

Or how in certain adventure games, not having picked up a certain item early on may cause you to be completely trapped in a certain area and unable to finish the game.

I like that stuff, though alot of people wouldn't, supposedly.

Most people don't like that kind of stuff because it's fucking stupid.
Not being able to finish the game because of a clear mistake is alright, if the game is hardcore. Like in The Last Express where you lose at the end if you didn't take the egg with you when you split the train. Or if, for example, you were to piss off an important figure in a game and he sends his goons to kill you later on. That kind of failure is fine.
Not being able to finish because I didn't pick that pair of scissors in the bushes which is apparently the only one in the game's universe is the bad sort of failure, and should never exist.

Care to explain why this one is logical? It sounds completely random to me, never having played the game.

 

[Monocause]

I actually think she makes a good point that I at least can relate to.

I find that as I get older, my 'free time' gets smaller.

Teh hardcoar players don't consider gaming a 'free time' activity. The casual ones shouldn't be the target of RPGs.

 

[Lumpy]

Care to explain why this one is logical? It sounds completely random to me, never having played the game.

It's made pretty clear that the egg is particularly important, and you have to go through a lot of trouble to still have the egg at that point, so taking it with you is only reasonable.

 

[Silellak]

I actually think she makes a good point that I at least can relate to.

I find that as I get older, my 'free time' gets smaller.

Teh hardcoar players don't consider gaming a 'free time' activity. The casual ones shouldn't be the target of RPGs.

As games get more and more mainstream, all genres become the target of casuals.

A sad fact, but one that's unavoidable to the increase in the potential profits involved with gaming. You can say RPGs "shouldn't target" casuals, but the almightly dollar disagrees with you.

It's the reason I think the golden age of gaming was the 90's and we'll never see a boom of creativity like that again. There are still glimmers of hope - Obsidian's own Mask of the Betrayer, for instance - but in general, those days are behind us.

 

[elander_]

Nothing wrong with this article. I would enjoy crpgs to be shorter too and with more meaningful choices considering the quality of the gameplay they put in games these days. If you get a chance to completely ignore the retarded combat and focus only on dialog choices and interesting reactions then the better.

Punishing the player for something he cannot predict is stoopid. The player should never get punished unless he persists in playing like a retarded. And even in this case he should always get a chance to "roleplay his mistakes". This was Daggerfall gameplay style and it worked greatly.

 

[Silellak]

Nothing wrong with this article. I would enjoy crpgs to be shorter too and with more meaningful choices considering the quality of the gameplay they put in games these days. If you get a chance to completely ignore the retarded combat and focus only on dialog choices then the better.

This is a good point. Consider Mask of the Betrayer. Technically it's a "short" RPG, but there are so many important choices with lasting consequences that it's worth replaying a few times.

I prefer a shorter RPG with more replayability than an RPG I only want to play once because the choices don't matter or simply because it's too damn long.

This is probably actually the best scenario we can hope for as the game industry moves more toward "casual", as it means casuals can have their "short game to finish quickly", while those of us who like a longer, deeper game can enjoy playing through multiple times in entirely different ways.

 

[Monocause]

This is probably actually the best scenario we can hope for as the game industry moves more toward "casual", as it means casuals can have their "short game to finish quickly", while those of us who like a longer, deeper game can enjoy playing through multiple times in entirely different ways.

No, no. Look at Oblivion - for me it's a great example of a casual RPG. You know, if you play it only 30 minutes a day it isn't boring or bad, it gets bad the more time you play it in a row. If casuals want any RPGs, they want ones that allow them to sit down, make a quest or two, fool around with that shining axe a bit and quit.
Casual gaming doesn't allow depth in games. Intricate plots with twists, interesting sidequests, complicating skill systems - that all takes time to get into, and casuals want a need for speed with axes and faeries or oblivion with guns.

 

[WanderingThrough2]

As I thought about it, I could only recall a handful of role-playing games that I'd seen through from start to finish: Grandia II, Super Mario RPG, and A Link to the Past were the only titles I was sure I'd beaten. . . . I pondered my apparent RPG fickleness, wondering why I finished Mass Effect and Fable when so many other fantastic games went only half-played.

I don't understand. Is she saying that Zelda 3 is an RPG but Mass Effect isn't? Or did she "finish" Mass Effect in some way that didn't involve "see[ing it] through from start to finish"?

 

[BethesdaLove]

Anthony Davis
Obsidian Entertainment Developer

I spend most if not all of my weekend time with my girlfriend.
I spend time at the gym so I can keep my girlfriend.

You are TEH MAN! xD How old are those Obsidian devs...

 

[Andyman Messiah]

As I thought about it, I could only recall a handful of role-playing games that I'd seen through from start to finish: Grandia II, Super Mario RPG, and A Link to the Past were the only titles I was sure I'd beaten. . . . I pondered my apparent RPG fickleness, wondering why I finished Mass Effect and Fable when so many other fantastic games went only half-played.

I don't understand. Is she saying that Zelda 3 is an RPG but Mass Effect isn't? Or did she "finish" Mass Effect in some way that didn't involve "see[ing it] through from start to finish"?

The fact that she even lists a Zelda game as an RPG (it should probably be filed as "action adventure" or simply "action") is enough for me to dismiss her as a loonie. But I'm sure she's a nice girl once you get to know her.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Ya know, before I was introduced to cRPGs about, say, five years ago, I pretty much exclusively played jRPGs. And I actually shared the same issue... I never finished them. Since then I've been playing many more cRPGs and, with the exception of The Witcher, I have completed all of them I started to date. And the reason I haven't finished the Witcher was that I got sick of all those crashes to desktops in Chapter 3...

The difference? cRPGs are much better games, and you feel invested in your character, since your character matters to you since, in more ways than a jRPG, it reflects you, so you want to see the journey through to the end. In jRPGs Cloud is always Cloud, so unless the story really grabs you, there is little reason to finish.

 

[Dark Matter]

If you don't have a lot of free time, you play fewer games than someone who has a lot of free time. Simple as that. These people make it sound like gaming is a chore where they're obligated to fill a certain quota of games played per month.

 

[shihonage]

Mass Effect and Fable joined the exalted ranks of Games I've Beaten not because they're so much better than other RPGs - though they are both excellent - but simply because they fit within my 20-30 hour attention window.

The obvious answer is to just not do that, of course. And I've tried. With fierce resolve, I have steadfastly refused to explore entire sections of maps, left doors unopened, ladders unscaled, bureaus unsearched, pots unbroken. And I've had a miserable time. Eventually, I simply had to admit that if I don't search a game's every last nook and cranny, I end up fretting about what I might've missed and don't really enjoy myself. Yes, I have issues, I know. I'll consult a therapist later. In the mean time, I have a solution that will allow gamers like me to enjoy even the most epic of RPGs: a length setting.

This is the writing of a person brainwashed, conditioned by the mediocre games. I feel sorry for her, more than anything. Then I feel sorry for the current state of RPG, that creates players like her.

She keeps buying the same game in a different skin over and over, and understandably enough she is starting to become jaded with them. Her logical conclusion ? Shorten each game.

What does that do for you, exactly ? Instead of buying 2 50-hour grindfests, you will now buy 3 30-hour grindfests.

I guess its her first step to awakening, but she's got ways to go. The correct answer, of course, is to make a FUN FUCKING GAME.

When the game maintains being FUN for all of its duration, why do you need to buy another game ? If a game keeps being fresh and inventive and FUN for 200 hours, I'll play it ! Why the frak not ?

 

[Anthony Davis]

Anthony Davis
Obsidian Entertainment Developer

I spend most if not all of my weekend time with my girlfriend.
I spend time at the gym so I can keep my girlfriend.

You are TEH MAN! xD How old are those Obsidian devs...

I just turned 37.


On to what other people are saying about this.

As stated by others, first of all make the game fun. I support this statement 100%. We as developers do not always succeed, but this should always be the goal.

My examples of BG2 and FF7 are games that are stupendously long, but are extremely fun.

There are also games that are short, say 20 hours or less, but are boring 30 minutes into them.

I am talking about how now, as an older man with time commitments, do not have the time to spend 100+ hours on GOOD or GREAT games.

Does anyone remember the PS2 game Rogue Galaxy? By all accounts I heard that was a really good console JRPG. I saw it at Best Buy for like 19.99. However once I picked up the box and flipped it over, I saw that it proudly boast 100+ hours of gameplay.

There is no way I can sink that kind of time into a video game these days unless it is over a period of months, and at that point, good luck remembering who wants what and where they are and what the hell was the story again?!

I still love those types of games, and some day when I am retired or something I will finally finish Dragon Quest 8 and Dark Cloud 2.

 

[shihonage]

There is no way I can sink that kind of time into a video game these days unless it is over a period of months, and at that point, good luck remembering who wants what and where they are and what the hell was the story again?!

Thats a game design problem. It's not so much a problem really, because there are solutions. It's just a habit that developers have fallen into because they assume they're making games for 15 year olds with photographic memory.

 

[sportforredneck]

37.

in a row?

 

[trais]

There is no way I can sink that kind of time into a video game these days unless it is over a period of months, and at that point, good luck remembering who wants what and where they are and what the hell was the story again?!

Oh, come on, sir, it's like blaming Rolls-Royce or Ferrari for making cars which you can't afford. It's silly.

 

[Anthony Davis]

There is no way I can sink that kind of time into a video game these days unless it is over a period of months, and at that point, good luck remembering who wants what and where they are and what the hell was the story again?!

Oh, come on, sir, it's like blaming Rolls-Royce or Ferrari for making cars which you can't afford. It's silly.

I absolutely do NOT blame them for making them. I hope people continue to make to make long, good quality games.

Once again, some day in the future I hope to have time to play them.

 

[Helton]

37.

in a row?

That took about two minutes to sink in and then I loled.

 

[DefJam101]

I like RPGs, I really do. Turn based or action-oriented, Western or Japanese,

I was rattling off a list of some of my all-time favorites recently - Lost Odyssey, Drakan: The Ancients' Gates,, Disgaea, Persona 3 -

Lolwut.

Also, I have a similar problem as her. I thoroughly enjoy most WRPGs, but I have a very difficult time finishing games in this particular genre. I usually hit a wall of some sort that destroys my motivation to play, even if I was enjoying it up until then.

 

[trais]

Well, if there's a lot of people who want short but quality games, someone shoud quit his job and start a studio which will tap into that market, thus quickly earning enough money to not care about working for the rest of his life. :wink:

 

[Psycroptic]

Stopped reading after the first paragraph where he lists only jRPGs. I don't even want to know what his point is.

Same here.

I get the same feeling when I see an article for a new RPG and then realize that when they said 'RPG' they really meant 'MMO'. I've got time to waste, but not on this... not on this... CLICK.

 

[J1M]

Eh, it's not like the Escapist was ever any good. It pains me that Zero Punctuation is affiliated with it.

Zero Punctuation pains a lot of people who watch it. I also wish it was not on any website.