So... Dragon Age 2...

[tuluse]

"Teleport" didn't appear until around 1930. Not looking good for Arcanum, but at least it has more resemblance with the 1930s than Dragon Age 2.

C'mon sea this is silly nitpicking. The game uses modern English so people can understand it. There are probably hundreds of words used that have been invented after the time period DA looks like it takes place. Also, it's a fantasy land. So unless there is a reason why the word teleport could not have been invented earlier it's fine.

 

[aris]

Dude, sea is the master of nitpicking, he has even implied this himself, it's only natural that he complains about this.

 

[sea]

The funny thing is it was just a silly off-hand comment. I'm not sure why you think I took it very seriously.

That said I do nitpick the shit out of things. I don't think it's even possible for me to like anything anymore.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

I voted blasphemy but in truth, most of the codex agrees with OP when phrased differently. Yeah the "personal story" idea was nice, as was the idea of the game moving several years. It's just that the execution was so utterly horrible.

 

[Xavin]

I'm a huge faggot who had fun playing DA:O on nightmare, and played through it multiple times. I haven't even played Daikatana, but I think I played DA2 for the same reasons people would play Daikatana or FFXIII: morbid curiosity. I played DA2 on casual, and it was ridiculous to the point of unintentional self-parody. Even though I didn't actually finish it, stopping at around Act 3, I couldn't really stay mad at the game because it certainly entertained me. And that's on top of the hilarious Codex/BSN threads, and Shadow Isaac/Big Daddy Qun's LP.

 

[Dreaad]

I'm surprised I got five pages out of this =D. Clearly this proves people love DA2, my logic is indisputable!

Wait wait... I'm sorry the above was just me attempting to fit in with all the people here who have no arguments and just say "this = that; you mad?"
Guys no major offense intended but: it was horrible, bad execution, couldn't finish it.... is just weak. Say your reason. Tempting to say "everything was horibad" I know, but we all know that is simply not true, at the very least there was good voice acting, far far better than "GO FOR THE EYES BOO!!!!" (I'm sorry minsc but I will always go homicidal and kill you, it's not you its me).

 

[Delterius]

One half of the original post is a concession to a rather long and yet unfinished list of fundamental flaws. The other half are three things that are presented as redeeming features while, nonetheless, daydreaming about how they could have actually been done well (Hey1! What IF the city actually changed over time in a satisfactory manner!?!). So I feel no further argument is needed, not that they ever were. In conclusion

 

[pan]

On the subject of the fundamental flaws, all of them apply to DA1 as well (yes, DA1 is inconsistent with it's own lore -- Morrigan waving her skimpy witch outfit/staff in front of Templars without them caring, etc).

What's more, some of those flaws are bullshit, such as enemies spawning out of nowhere trivialising tactics. What tactics would there be if the enemies didn't spontaneously appear? Positioning has only ever mattered in this series insofar as area of effect attacks and back-stabs are concerned, so don't say positioning.

The real reason you imbeciles don't like DA2, or rather that you like it less than DA1, is because you're petty retards who are turned off by buzz words like action button. That puts you on par with 4chan and the Bioware community forum. But what else can I expect from you people, you're the same species as those who created this modern marvel in the first place. It's not like you're genetically all that different from Gaydar or Hepler. And you were probably conditioned in roughly the same ways as well -- globalisation has assured of that. So why would I expect different results from the same breed.

 

[circ]

You're a moron that clearly never played DA2. Or a shill. Most likely both.

 

[Jick Magger]

There was nothing particularly wrong with Origins' story beyond its overall genericness and blandness, there wasn't a crippling issue in regards to copy/pasted environments and an overall lack of variation to everything, the combat at least tried to encourage tactical thinking beyond them just spawning insta-crit backstabbing rogues right next to your healer (and no, spontaneously creating situations which you have little-to-no-chance of countering does not constitute tactical thinking). Origins may've had its own issues with lore, but they weren't anywhere near as pronounced and blatant as the ones in Dragon Age 2, so that argument is moot.

Seriously, I know this is a clichéd response, but have you even played the game at all? Is this some bizarre attempt at contrarianism for its own sake?

 

[Dreaad]

True enough nothing wrong with origins story, except the usual static enemy of "ultimate DOOOM" that can destroy the world, but waits for you to finish your business. Chosen hero of "EPIC POWER" that is chosen to lead the last hope of the universe because the more experienced guy is... shy. And of course we can't forget the immortal "UBER POWERFUL BOSS!" that can only be killed by the hero of "EPIC POWER"... so of course he goes to meet him in single combat to prove how immortal he is.

 

[Jick Magger]

Yeah, Origins' pretty much never really deviates from your standard "AN ANCIENT EVIL HAS AWAKENED" fantasy plot, but it doesn't really botch the execution that badly. To put it bluntly, they aimed dead-on for mediocrity, and hit it dead on the mark. I can give DA2 a plus for trying to do something new, but it misses the mark entirely.

 

[Dreaad]

I guess I want more games that aim higher and don't get there, instead of re-iteration. Still there was a time when I would have settled perhaps even enjoyed the same old thing again and again so I can't really fault your opinion.

 

[pan]

True enough nothing wrong with origins story, except the usual static enemy of "ultimate DOOOM" that can destroy the world, but waits for you to finish your business. Chosen hero of "EPIC POWER" that is chosen to lead the last hope of the universe because the more experienced guy is... shy. And of course we can't forget the immortal "UBER POWERFUL BOSS!" that can only be killed by the hero of "EPIC POWER"... so of course he goes to meet him in single combat to prove how immortal he is.

Also,
-Loghain allowing the King's half of the army to be slaughtered, which turns out to be disastrous. Incongruous with his reputation as being smart.
-Loghain's plan of battle is to have half of his army charge the Darkspawn like idiots, and then to have the other half charge the Darkspawn like idiots. This, despite having fortifications situated on a bottleneck mountain pass which the Darkspawn had to go through to get to Fereldan. Again, incongruous for a character meant to be smart.
-The Witch of the Wilds saving the PC's life for contrived reasons.
-The allies that the player is sent to enlist all turn out to be too weak to solve their personal problems. The player solves their problems for them, proving that he is stronger than them, begging the question as to why he needs their help in the first place.
-At the final battle the allies prove to be pointless.

I could do a million of these, most everything that happens in the game is nonsensical.

there wasn't a crippling issue in regards to copy/pasted environments and an overall lack of variation to everything

Yes there was.

the combat at least tried to encourage tactical thinking beyond them just spawning insta-crit backstabbing rogues right next to your healer

The tactical thinking involved determining what abilities to use and where to use them, as well as gaming the AI aggro mechanic, same as DA2. Backstabbing didn't require much tactical thought in either game.

Origins may've had its own issues with lore, but they weren't anywhere near as pronounced and blatant as the ones in Dragon Age 2

What were the lore issues.

Redundant question, by the way. The lore is boring and I can't imagine anyone genuinely caring how faithful Bioware was to it.

 

[tuluse]

-The allies that the player is sent to enlist all turn out to be too weak to solve their personal problems. The player solves their problems for them, proving that he is stronger than them, begging the question as to why he needs their help in the first place.

Right because 2 + 1 is not greater than 2.

 

[Dreaad]

-The allies that the player is sent to enlist all turn out to be too weak to solve their personal problems. The player solves their problems for them, proving that he is stronger than them, begging the question as to why he needs their help in the first place.

Right because 2 + 1 is not greater than 2.

I think pan has a point here though, a good example is the dalish elves in those tiny woods. You come along... there is 15 or so elves in a crusty camp (presumably more in the woods frolicking) who can't fight off some werewolves. You take 4 people with you, kill some ancient evil from when the tevinter emperium annihilated the elves, take some uber Armour off the evil, go kill 200 or so werewolves. Go back to the elves... they go "OMG you are amazing we will help you now!"

Frankly if they couldn't fight of some werewolves why would you want them to help you save the fate of the universe?

 

[tuluse]

I donno, I had a werewolf army with me.

 

[RK47]

Origins worked - the whole setup somewhat makes sense, if not forced in by Duncan. But for a plot device like drinking darkspawn blood makes you immune to darkspawn - it never really came into play again later in the game where a bunch of people you traveled with are mostly NON-gray wardens COVERED IN DARKSPAWN BLOOD FOR GOD KNOWS HOW MANY DAYS SPENT INSIDE THE DEEP ROADS - yet they did not succumb to the darkspawn blood disease.

 

[Hepler's Vagina]

What's more, some of those flaws are bullshit, such as enemies spawning out of nowhere trivialising tactics. What tactics would there be if the enemies didn't spontaneously appear? Positioning has only ever mattered in this series insofar as area of effect attacks and back-stabs are concerned, so don't say positioning.

I wonder if you played these games on the PC... Tactics in Origins were infinitely more important than knee jerk ability spam reaction to insta-spawns of (functionally identical) enemies in DA2. DA:O is a combat game. Yes, positioning was important in Origins because of encounter terrain. You had mages on hilltops, archers behinds barricades, templars at the end of a room with 6 traps - just from memory of 4 years back. Origins' enemies used a shitton of special attacks, ie all the stuff the player had (knockdown, stun, stealth, overbear, etc on top of elemental and spells). Just compare the battle with the arcane horror in the Brecilian Ruins to the dozens of 'arcane horror' facsimiles (HP meatbag like any other) in DA2. Origins' arcane horror was heavily scripted and teleported all over with access to serious spells and summons - I bet on PC and nightmare (heck, even 'hard') you reloaded that 4 or 5 times. In DA2 it was just standard enemy template but with a fancy name.

If you can't see the care that went into the encounter design in DA:O (on the PC) compared to the utter laziness of DA2 then there's really little point taking this further.

As for Morrigan being inconsistent with lore, try taking her in to the non-infected parts of the Circle - Wynne and all the others with attack her on sight. Also, unlike DA2 you don't have any fights right in front of templars, so all they can see is suspicious staves.

 

[Dreaad]

What's more, some of those flaws are bullshit, such as enemies spawning out of nowhere trivialising tactics. What tactics would there be if the enemies didn't spontaneously appear? Positioning has only ever mattered in this series insofar as area of effect attacks and back-stabs are concerned, so don't say positioning.

I wonder if you played these games on the PC... Tactics in Origins were infinitely more important than knee jerk ability spam reaction to insta-spawns of (functionally identical) enemies in DA2. DA:O is a combat game. Yes, positioning was important in Origins because of encounter terrain. You had mages on hilltops, archers behinds barricades, templars at the end of a room with 6 traps - just from memory of 4 years back. Origins' enemies used a shitton of special attacks, ie all the stuff the player had (knockdown, stun, stealth, overbear, etc on top of elemental and spells). Just compare the battle with the arcane horror in the Brecilian Ruins to the dozens of 'arcane horror' facsimiles (HP meatbag like any other) in DA2. Origins' arcane horror was heavily scripted and teleported all over with access to serious spells and summons - I bet on PC and nightmare (heck, even 'hard') you reloaded that 4 or 5 times. In DA2 it was just standard enemy template but with a fancy name.

If you can't see the care that went into the encounter design in DA:O (on the PC) compared to the utter laziness of DA2 then there's really little point taking this further.

As for Morrigan being inconsistent with lore, try taking her in to the non-infected parts of the Circle - Wynne and all the others with attack her on sight. Also, unlike DA2 you don't have any fights right in front of templars, so all they can see is suspicious staves.

Hehehehehehehe =DDDDDDD you mean when I run up to stuff and use "Frost Lazers" followed by "Storm of Swirly Lights" and everyone dies? Yes I remember DA:O tactics, can't say they were that different from DA2.

 

[pan]

What's more, some of those flaws are bullshit, such as enemies spawning out of nowhere trivialising tactics. What tactics would there be if the enemies didn't spontaneously appear? Positioning has only ever mattered in this series insofar as area of effect attacks and back-stabs are concerned, so don't say positioning.

I wonder if you played these games on the PC... Tactics in Origins were infinitely more important than knee jerk ability spam reaction to insta-spawns of (functionally identical) enemies in DA2. DA:O is a combat game. Yes, positioning was important in Origins because of encounter terrain. You had mages on hilltops, archers behinds barricades, templars at the end of a room with 6 traps - just from memory of 4 years back. Origins' enemies used a shitton of special attacks, ie all the stuff the player had (knockdown, stun, stealth, overbear, etc on top of elemental and spells). Just compare the battle with the arcane horror in the Brecilian Ruins to the dozens of 'arcane horror' facsimiles (HP meatbag like any other) in DA2. Origins' arcane horror was heavily scripted and teleported all over with access to serious spells and summons - I bet on PC and nightmare (heck, even 'hard') you reloaded that 4 or 5 times. In DA2 it was just standard enemy template but with a fancy name.

If you can't see the care that went into the encounter design in DA:O (on the PC) compared to the utter laziness of DA2 then there's really little point taking this further.

As for Morrigan being inconsistent with lore, try taking her in to the non-infected parts of the Circle - Wynne and all the others with attack her on sight. Also, unlike DA2 you don't have any fights right in front of templars, so all they can see is suspicious staves.

It's not like the terrain was particularly special; it consisted, as you said, of some traps and archers behind barricades or on a ledge.

But that's beside the point. Even if the terrain was spectacular -- which, compared to DA2, or, hell, Baldurs Gate or even Fallout, it may have been -- it cannot function by itself, it is reliant on other things to make use of it. An insolent camera that wouldn't budge more than half an inch in any direction and an uninspired waste-of-my-time WoW rip-off combat system ensured that whatever qualities the terrain set-ups had would never see the light of day, as merely looking at the archers shooting at you from behind their barricade and field of traps from a top-down perspective was an impossible feat. Fighting under these circumstances would be done in the form of stun-locking enemies, through the usage of a subset of overpowered abilities; attempting to keep weaker members from doing too much damage (for fear of drawing aggro); and that's about it, really. Ability usage and aggro control make up the entirety of Dragon Age combat and within those limited confines battlefield positioning plays quite the minimal role indeed.

I do not remember Wynne attacking Morrigan on sight, although I do remember intentionally provoking Wynne because I thought that she was too old to be adventuring and that her inclusion in the game was a contrived attempt by superstar writer David Gaider to include at least one female party member who wasn't a walking pair of (poorly animated) tits and ass

 

[Cyberarmy]

Origins worked - the whole setup somewhat makes sense, if not forced in by Duncan. But for a plot device like drinking darkspawn blood makes you immune to darkspawn - it never really came into play again later in the game where a bunch of people you traveled with are mostly NON-gray wardens COVERED IN DARKSPAWN BLOOD FOR GOD KNOWS HOW MANY DAYS SPENT INSIDE THE DEEP ROADS - yet they did not succumb to the darkspawn blood disease.

And it keeps getting better, you can order your Mabari to lick and clean all of that blood :/

 

[RK47]

oh man thats just sad, because you saved the mabari from being poisoned by darkspawn blood depending on your origins...
and the hunter specifically it had to be put down if there's no cure.

ran he did.

 

[Borelli]

-Loghain allowing the King's half of the army to be slaughtered, which turns out to be disastrous. Incongruous with his reputation as being smart.
-Loghain's plan of battle is to have half of his army charge the Darkspawn like idiots, and then to have the other half charge the Darkspawn like idiots. This, despite having fortifications situated on a bottleneck mountain pass which the Darkspawn had to go through to get to Fereldan. Again, incongruous for a character meant to be smart.

He wanted to lose on purpose.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

-Loghain allowing the King's half of the army to be slaughtered, which turns out to be disastrous. Incongruous with his reputation as being smart.
-Loghain's plan of battle is to have half of his army charge the Darkspawn like idiots, and then to have the other half charge the Darkspawn like idiots. This, despite having fortifications situated on a bottleneck mountain pass which the Darkspawn had to go through to get to Fereldan. Again, incongruous for a character meant to be smart.

He wanted to lose on purpose.

And that's a super-intelligent "master tactician" move?

Origins worked - the whole setup somewhat makes sense, if not forced in by Duncan. But for a plot device like drinking darkspawn blood makes you immune to darkspawn - it never really came into play again later in the game where a bunch of people you traveled with are mostly NON-gray wardens COVERED IN DARKSPAWN BLOOD FOR GOD KNOWS HOW MANY DAYS SPENT INSIDE THE DEEP ROADS - yet they did not succumb to the darkspawn blood disease.

And it keeps getting better, you can order your Mabari to lick and clean all of that blood :/

Hey, man. I'm sure there's nothing in the Dragon Age bible that says dogs and other animals can't be grey wardens too. And I guess all them other folks are just guys and dolls with taint resistance except they don't get that ceremony with the lyrium and whatever that makes it proper so they don't become grey wardens they just become like an alzheimers patient or something.