Settings and their lack of differentiation

[Neanderthal]

The problem is that doing any of those things would be pretty fucking dull. Hunt for a fabled indian treasure? How? Digging up random countryside or graveyards? Do I choose whether to spend points on my shoveling skill vs my shooting unarmed men in the face skill? What would hunting down a notorious criminal entail exactly? 6 hours of talking to people and 6 hours of uneventful horseback riding, culminating in a 30 second shootout?

Save-the-world quests are overused because they're one of maybe 2 or 3 viable excuses for a party of murderhobos to leave a wake of corpses knee deep for hours on end. If you're only going to spend 1% of your game in combat, you probably shouldn't even bother having a system for it. Which begs the question, what is 99% of your time going to be spent doing? You might have a profession and maybe 1 or 2 more incidental skills at best. Are you going to wring 20 hours out of pulling teeth, prospecting for gold, and playing the piano? Sounds like some boring shit to me. Is your character going to be some magical jack of all trades that can blow up bank vaults, ride away, sell the gold, buy cattle, drive them across the country, sell them, sneak into a mansion, kill some guards, steal a deed and open a dentistry practice to fulfill his lifelong dream of yanking teeth out on top of dead indians? Maybe we could just skip the bullshit and make it a visual novel titled "Gary Sue, the westernfag game". After all, it's not like you're going to have meaningful systems for any of that shit. Probably a bunch of lame QTE or some dialogue options that make no real difference.

Well me personally i'd make it somewhat like Fallout 1 or 2. Hunting for a fabled Indian treasure sounds like the basis of a damned good adventure, first you've got how to gain the rumour, from an old drunk Indian you buy a drink for perhaps, maybe a dying Indian Fighter on your operating table, or an off his head miner who is mad as a hatter. Gain the rumour in some manner anyway, then you've got to follow this up, clues in old journals, held by bizarre characters on the open range whatever. You add a touch of danger at some point, rival treasure hunters, Indian Warriors objecting to the Palefaces presence, a pack of rabid dogs. Shovels i'd make just a use item for anybody, not link to a skill. Horses i'd treat in the same way as the Fallout car, with chances of random encounters on the range to add interest. What the treasure is, what it's worth and what it does if anything is another factor to add interest.

I'd definitely have a system for combat, rifles, sidearms, knives (throwing and melee,) bow and arrows, dynamite, held even emplaced Gattling guns if you're lucky enough. Combat is a staple of the genre that you can't omit. Gameplay should be fairly much the same as a Fallout game, except probably with more of a homebase somewhere, add content and reinforce every skill choice, make interesting chocies and consequences. Give the protagonist a motive to move towards and feed him scraps of info and hints that allow him to do so.

Say as a Doctor you pull a tooth first thing in the morning, gain a few bits. Next you have to choose whether to take the leg of a man whose been shot, try and dig out the bullet or leave it in there and these all lead to different consequences. At noon you could go and have dinner at the salloon where almost any encounter can happen and you have drinking, gambling, brawling, talking to pick up info, playing the piano, banging a whore or whatever to amuse you. In the afternoon you could pull a baby out, treat a dose of the dick rot or whatever. All of these uses of the Doctor skill would require tests against your skill and have consequences, if you keep failing you could be run out of town or replaced. Or you could just shut up shop for the day and pursue personal business.

There's no need to choose such a static life though, you could be a traveller and only pursue your skills where and when you choose to, there should be plenty of opportunities for almost all skills in any settlement, and consequences to each situation.

No uberpowered characters for me, I prefer you either be specialised in a few skills and ignorant of everything else, or be a jack of all trades and master of none who fails as many times as he succeeds and pays the price for that failure. Arcanum progression was about right in my opinion. No QTEs obviously.

That's how i'd do it as a GM anyway, whether you could bring such a system over to CRPGs that's another matter, still copy the basic model of the first two Fallouts and i'd say it's definitely doable.

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

The problem is that doing any of those things would be pretty fucking dull. Hunt for a fabled indian treasure? How? Digging up random countryside or graveyards? Do I choose whether to spend points on my shoveling skill vs my shooting unarmed men in the face skill? What would hunting down a notorious criminal entail exactly? 6 hours of talking to people and 6 hours of uneventful horseback riding, culminating in a 30 second shootout?

Save-the-world quests are overused because they're one of maybe 2 or 3 viable excuses for a party of murderhobos to leave a wake of corpses knee deep for hours on end. If you're only going to spend 1% of your game in combat, you probably shouldn't even bother having a system for it. Which begs the question, what is 99% of your time going to be spent doing? You might have a profession and maybe 1 or 2 more incidental skills at best. Are you going to wring 20 hours out of pulling teeth, prospecting for gold, and playing the piano? Sounds like some boring shit to me. Is your character going to be some magical jack of all trades that can blow up bank vaults, ride away, sell the gold, buy cattle, drive them across the country, sell them, sneak into a mansion, kill some guards, steal a deed and open a dentistry practice to fulfill his lifelong dream of yanking teeth out on top of dead indians? Maybe we could just skip the bullshit and make it a visual novel titled "Gary Sue, the westernfag game". After all, it's not like you're going to have meaningful systems for any of that shit. Probably a bunch of lame QTE or some dialogue options that make no real difference.

I loled at murderhobos.

That being said I think you are right : games need to be different in order to even justified their existence, i.e. they need to be extraordinary. If not they would be simulation game: and that's not an RPG.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

Do the people in this thread know that we have a wonderful forum called Codex Workshop where you can work on your own game to prove all the naysayers of your opinions wrong?


Or are they, in fact,right and you are just arguing sophism?

 

[Neanderthal]

You're right mate, i'd been pissarsing around trying to come up with a setting for me group, think i'll start drafting a western setting. Cheers.

 

[Parsifarka]

The problem is not with fantasy but, as the title indicates, with lack of differentiation, i.e. we have lots of generic shit with next to nothing specific traits. There are worthy exceptions (in recent times, Inquisitor could be a good example), but most of fantasy settings don't go beyond elforcshit -and those which doesn't fit that category end up being so-dark-so-mature shamefully written crap. Fantasy can still offer a lot (not a RPG, but have you seen Zeno Clash?) although historical settings would certainly be most welcomed.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Victorian: 1889/Martian Dreams
Prehistoric: Savage Empire
Ancient Greece: Return of Heracles (C64)
Sumerian: Rivers of Light (in Adventure Construction Set)

 

[laclongquan]

Setting: Build up a town
Environment: Oasis Desert, Cowboy Wild West, Alien... depend on dev's favourite.
Hook: Build up the town the way you want it.

Imagine a 3D expanse of field with certain slot. Once you hire/lure an NPC/organization to the town, they can set up their building and we can choose where that building can be. Player can go through town and see stuffs~ (think NWN2 but the buildings are way more and different)

Progress: you can hire/lure certain NPC/shops at certain point of campaigns. Each one of them may even come with additional quest and expansion. Like, you lure a shopkeeper to town, he complain that the caravan bring his replenishment goods are not coming in, You go solve the quest related to the caravan to expand the shop's selection and open up new land (source of the caravan). Obviously, fed-ex quest for shop to orient their own selections, like 5 bear hunting requests to expand their armor selection to the fullest, etc...

Chapters: each chapter can be concluded with a battle to contest the town, from bandit gangs to invading army. The size of the opponent may be linked to what quest player take during the course of the chapter. Like if you neglect pacifying quests for the surrounding in favoured of shops' quests, the bandit gangs will be very strong. Or if you are careful do the quests in surrounding towns so your reputation grow up instead of doing shops' quest, the invading army will be small because the soldiers fear to attack a famed hero.

You can see at least three games with same mechanic, just different art styles and writings.

 

[Telengard]

What do you do in an Old West RPG? Why, same as all Old West computer games, all the way back to the old arcade games. Shoot injuns. Drink. Shoot Mexicans. Gamble. Shoot runaway slaves. Bang a prostitute. Shoot ex-Confederacy conspirators. Rope some doggies. Shoot posses. Then go up against your nemesis, and shoot him to. Job done.

As for the system, the old fantasy RPGs are just the generic strategy game classes switched over to a fantasy version of same. So, you just switch them back. It's all pretty easy.

*

What's not easy is getting the money to make such a game. You're already two strikes in making an RPG at all (expensive) and doing historical RPG (not a single computer game of such has ever been successful), so you walk into the money meeting without a leg to stand on. But if you time it right (like when a popular Western is on TV), you can get your idea passed the gatekeepers. But after that, all the High Fantasy nerds will come and take a gigantic poop on what would actually make the game function as a historical piece. Like they always do. And if you have the strength to ignore all of the shit they'll throw at you if you refuse to listen, the money men will then say you gotta listen, because those people are paying the bills.

You'd think going to Kickstarter would help, but you'd be wrong. That just lets the high fantasy nerds poop all over it direct.

 

[Perkel]

It is not about setting but how you use it.
You can have best RPG with best story using most generic fantasy setting ever.
Good setting doesn't guarantee good game or story (look at TES games)

 

[Beastro]

I think a good twist on Fantasy RPG would be one where you blend you playing the game with the in game world with the generic fantasy setting being the place since it's generic for games.

Have you be looked on as a dreaded Trickster deity from another planar realm known to possess people and cause havoc across the world, essentially the in-world explanation for the player taking over a PC, the PC becoming powerful (controlling time with save/load) and acting erratically (especially morally) seemingly doing random things at a whim without giving a damn about the usual things people do, like fearing death.

Most people dread you living in paranoia of you crossing their path, or worse, taking them over, some worship you, but no one knows for sure who you are until you start act overt. Have the PC be an established person, even if he's just a farmer where you have to pass checks about things not to draw attention and a main quest that revolves around chicken and egg with you doing a quest as a player, not really motivated to do it as a real person is, but doing it because it's what you do in a game and how others in-world would react to that.

I got the idea of starting a game as a PC and then trying to act out living that PCs life until it becomes obvious to everyone something is wrong with that person until they realize they've been taken over by that otherworldly chaotic agent (you) that proceeds to do whatever you want with them as the player.

At the very least it would be a different spin on the usual game, the shallow effort at fantasy could be explained away to emphasizes the themes of you being an dimensional invader and to provide contrast, all that it would take is to have the game be very reactive to you with NPCs freaking out at the PC if they know you're controlling them and have voice acting directly calling out to the player on what they do and how they hate your presence, even if you're doing good things.

Imagine having a game where NPCs are asking you why you're murdering everyone in a village, not the PC but you, the player who's taken them over? What could you say? "Because it's fun and you're a nothing to me"? "Because I'm bored and killing time until I can do something in my own realm"? "It's my day off"? It could have some neat thematic ideas ala Reboot be examined largely through gameplay alone.

You could also add different gameplay elements to that kind of like playing the Xenomorph in AvP where you're powerful, but still in a fragile body so need to cocoon people to survive: You're able to leap to other bodies like the demon in that movie Fallen, but the hitch is to try to keep that power hidden. You raise hell, get a village on your ass, kill some before they lynch mob you, then leap to someone else before game over hits and act innocent going along with the rest until things calm down.

 

[mondblut]

Why, that's for the writers to come up with. But there's enough potential there for full-blown games.
In principle you have the same motivations to go somewhere or do something than in other settings, 'cept maybe the "Save the world" plots - which would be a good thing for once.
Anyway - the characters might be looking for a fabled indian treasure, be tasked with (or have personal reasons for) hunting down a notorious criminal, get involved in troubles between farmers, railroad tycoons or cattle barons. It could involve anything from quest to glory, over personal revenge to political upheaval in the border regions.

who cares about the writers' crap?

The question is what you gonna DO in the game, not what you gonna read once in a blue moon. And I have the answer. Click gun, click target. Click gun, click target. Click gun, click target. Click gun, click target. Click gun, click target. Click gun, click target. Click reload. MUCH FUN.

Take Fallout 2, throw out everything except Arroyo and Klamath (i.e. all the good stuff). There, you've got your Wild West RPG, likely the best that can ever be. And guess what, it sucks.

 

[laclongquan]

What do you do in an Old West RPG? Why, same as all Old West computer games, all the way back to the old arcade games. Shoot injuns. Drink. Shoot Mexicans. Gamble. Shoot runaway slaves. Bang a prostitute. Shoot ex-Confederacy conspirators. Rope some doggies. Shoot posses. Then go up against your nemesis, and shoot him to. Job done.

As for the system, the old fantasy RPGs are just the generic strategy game classes switched over to a fantasy version of same. So, you just switch them back. It's all pretty easy.

You are not going far enough at it~

Doing not enough shoot bandit missions ==> bandit prosper ==> appear new quest: sneak into bandit hideouts, find bandit stash, more bounty quests (because they can hide in bandit gangs)

Doing enough shoot bandit missions ==> peaceful route ==> more escort missions: cattle drives, caravan of settlers, expansion of town

There are a lot of potential in such setting~

 

[mondblut]

The problem is that doing any of those things would be pretty fucking dull. Hunt for a fabled indian treasure? How? Digging up random countryside or graveyards? Do I choose whether to spend points on my shoveling skill vs my shooting unarmed men in the face skill? What would hunting down a notorious criminal entail exactly? 6 hours of talking to people and 6 hours of uneventful horseback riding, culminating in a 30 second shootout?

Save-the-world quests are overused because they're one of maybe 2 or 3 viable excuses for a party of murderhobos to leave a wake of corpses knee deep for hours on end. If you're only going to spend 1% of your game in combat, you probably shouldn't even bother having a system for it. Which begs the question, what is 99% of your time going to be spent doing? You might have a profession and maybe 1 or 2 more incidental skills at best. Are you going to wring 20 hours out of pulling teeth, prospecting for gold, and playing the piano? Sounds like some boring shit to me. Is your character going to be some magical jack of all trades that can blow up bank vaults, ride away, sell the gold, buy cattle, drive them across the country, sell them, sneak into a mansion, kill some guards, steal a deed and open a dentistry practice to fulfill his lifelong dream of yanking teeth out on top of dead indians? Maybe we could just skip the bullshit and make it a visual novel titled "Gary Sue, the westernfag game". After all, it's not like you're going to have meaningful systems for any of that shit. Probably a bunch of lame QTE or some dialogue options that make no real difference.

This man speaks wisely, listen to him.

 

[Beastro]

You are not going far enough at it~

Doing not enough shoot bandit missions ==> bandit prosper ==> appear new quest: sneak into bandit hideouts, find bandit stash, more bounty quests (because they can hide in bandit gangs)

Doing enough shoot bandit missions ==> peaceful route ==> more escort missions: cattle drives, caravan of settlers, expansion of town

There are a lot of potential in such setting~

It also doesn't need to be standard Wild West fair, it could focus on the frontier and those like you that are out there struggling to survive and potentially survive in competition with one another.

It also doesn't need to be in the Golden Age of Cowboys and stuff, have it back in the early half of the 19th Century. Maybe have combat center around muskets being one shot kills, but long reloads, so realistically you get one try, maybe two if you pack a second one, then it comes down to melee combat.

The "Mountain Man" era setting could make for a good game that's long, quiet periods of preparation and walking interspersed with short, intense combat and peaceful interaction with people you run into. Only problem is in their industry that kind of gameplay would be buttfucked and the game would devolve into another sand box where you work to up building a log cabin and have a family and shit - the focus would be not on sand box type goals but atmosphere and emergent gameplay that comes from those meetings out in the wild, how you handle them and if they turn violent or not.

All of that is inspired from just one Western, Jeremiah Johnson. However boring/or slow paced that movie is it could make for a neat gaming experience. The closest I've come to it is the Long Dark, but that games world just isn't large enough to capture the feeling that's at the center of the idea.

Other ideas would be focusing on less touched on parts of the Western as a setting, North California and the rest of the Pacific Northwest, Northern US, Alaska. It can be as stereotypical as you want, but that doesn't mean it has to be a generic Western setting for a game.

 

[Beastro]

This man speaks wisely, listen to him.

A modification of Shadow of Mordor's notoriety system mi

The problem is that doing any of those things would be pretty fucking dull. Hunt for a fabled indian treasure? How? Digging up random countryside or graveyards? Do I choose whether to spend points on my shoveling skill vs my shooting unarmed men in the face skill? What would hunting down a notorious criminal entail exactly? 6 hours of talking to people and 6 hours of uneventful horseback riding, culminating in a 30 second shootout?

Save-the-world quests are overused because they're one of maybe 2 or 3 viable excuses for a party of murderhobos to leave a wake of corpses knee deep for hours on end. If you're only going to spend 1% of your game in combat, you probably shouldn't even bother having a system for it. Which begs the question, what is 99% of your time going to be spent doing? You might have a profession and maybe 1 or 2 more incidental skills at best. Are you going to wring 20 hours out of pulling teeth, prospecting for gold, and playing the piano? Sounds like some boring shit to me. Is your character going to be some magical jack of all trades that can blow up bank vaults, ride away, sell the gold, buy cattle, drive them across the country, sell them, sneak into a mansion, kill some guards, steal a deed and open a dentistry practice to fulfill his lifelong dream of yanking teeth out on top of dead indians? Maybe we could just skip the bullshit and make it a visual novel titled "Gary Sue, the westernfag game". After all, it's not like you're going to have meaningful systems for any of that shit. Probably a bunch of lame QTE or some dialogue options that make no real difference.

A modification of Shadow of Mordor's notoriety system would work well.

But a basic thing would be asking for a higher standard of writing from those making the game. Save the world is a crutch plot because you can't write anything else more compelling and the Western is full of stories of minor feuds that were done well that became iconic movies. It all depends on how much thought is put into it, and not much is put into Westerns these days, other genres are easier to write because they come more naturally to us.

One could easily switch around a few words and say the same thing about making games in the post-apocalyptic setting, especially the zombie variety. I bet most people back in the 50s and 60s wouldn't have a clue where to start because it wasn't their thing, as oppose to Westerns that were in vogue, a dime a dozen and needed something different for their own Westerns to stand out.

 

[Infinitron]

Following Sawyerian principles, rather than attempt to take a Wild West setting and add "standard RPG stuff", let us reason about the core gameplay of a Wild West game and develop our systems around that.

The basic combat scenario is the shootout. Draw your gun, aim, fire, hope the other guy doesn't hit you before you hit him. How could this work? To make a game that feels like an actual Wild West shootout, I propose a real-time system, no pause, where you position your mouse cursor over enemies and click to fire. The longer you hover the mouse cursor over them, the better your aim. The risk-reward equation here should be obvious. Movement would also be crucial, of course - running into cover - and carry its own risks.

When facing multiple foes, the farther apart they are from each other, the longer it takes to acquire a good aim on each one, while foes who are close to one another run the risk of being gunned down in rapid succession (think of how the original Deus Ex aiming reticle worked). And of course the same principles apply to a foe who is moving.

The system should be deadly. People doesn't "lose hit points" in Western. Have a locational damage and wound system, where you can get hit in various body parts. Most will result in a takedown, but you can allow for continued play with penalties after a graze or a shoulder hit, etc. An explicit aimed shots system is unnecessary and not very Westerny, but rather than be completely random you could have the chance of a headshot increase commensurately with accuracy.

So now you've got plenty of variables to play with. Draw speed. Accuracy, of course - the speed at which goes up. Fire rate for repeatead shots. Recoil, to determine how much your accuracy is decreased after each shot. Ammunition count. Range - have different weapons lose accuracy to a different degree according to range, to differentiate rifles. The weight and bulk of the weapon could be a factor in how quick it is to re-aim in those multiple foe scenarios.

IMO, most of this variation should be at the item level, not the character level. Let the gun be the center of the system, with players encouraged to find and use varied and ever more powerful guns. Character development, and accuracy in particular, should be tightly controlled - you don't want it to be possible to have a "Man with No Name build" capable of insta-killing multiple targets before the end of the game.

 

[Beastro]

The basic combat scenario is the shootout. Draw your gun, aim, fire, hope the other guy doesn't hit you before you hit him. How could this work? To make a game that feels like an actual Wild West shootout, I propose a real-time system, no pause, where you position your mouse cursor over enemies and click to fire. The longer you hover the mouse cursor over them, the better your aim. The risk-reward equation here should be obvious. Movement would also be crucial, of course - running into cover - and carry its own risks.

If you're going in that direction, just make it a FPS.

If you have multiple party members, then it focuses on planning and preparation. How many multi-protagonist Westerns have the whole montage of finding the perfect ambush position or getting pinned down and needing someone to flank and take down the guys high up to allow better freedom of movement?

In that latter case it's turn based all the way.

So now you've got plenty of variables to play with. Draw speed. Accuracy, of course - the speed at which goes up. Fire rate for repeatead shots. Recoil, to determine how much your accuracy is decreased after each shot. Ammunition count. Range - have different weapons lose accuracy to a different degree according to range, to differentiate rifles. The weight and bulk of the weapon could be a factor in how quick it is to re-aim in those multiple foe scenarios.

Fire rate needs more than that. There were more than the typical repeater rifles around with muzzle loaders and even revolver shotguns and rifle - weapons that were fairly fast firing but were impossible to reload in a fire fight.

1840-1900 was a era of massive experimentation with firearms with pretty much everything going before people settled on the few designs that worked best. This was the era, after all, that gave birth to things like the LeMat Revolver, a 9 shot pistol with a shotgun round fired from the center: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeMat_Revolver

IMO, most of this variation should be at the item level, not the character level. Let the gun be the center of the system, with players encouraged to find and use varied and ever more powerful guns. Character development, and accuracy in particular, should be tightly controlled - you don't want it to be possible to have a "Man with No Name build" capable of insta-killing multiple targets before the end of the game.

That's something I'd like. Make itemization important, feel unique, but give a wide range or selections and upgrade options.

 

[Infinitron]

If you have multiple party members

Nope, not what I had in mind. You could have some fights where you have an AI-controlled ally, though (think Blondie and Tuco covering each other's backs in that one scene in GBU).

If you're going in that direction, just make it a FPS.

But we don't want an FPS, now do we.

I don't think an FPS would provide a strictly superior experience, either - the point and click-style gameplay has its own appeal.

 

[Johannes]

You know how you could make Wild West combat interesting? Add magic to it. Or steampunk gear that fulfills the same purpose.

 

[Leitz]

Lemme guess, you'll be the ideas guys? Make your own games or something, but stop fantasizing like 10 yo boys. This is embarrassing.

 

[Carrion]

FFS Infinitron:



Combat in a Western RPG could play out like fucking JA2 if you wanted it to, with a clever use of terrain, rooftops, windows, stealth, ambushes, explosives, different weapons with different properties... Even Desperados, while a real-time game, had a party full of vastly different characters and tools ranging from throwing knives to revolvers and (sniper) rifles, from explosives to knockout gas, from disguises to seduction and so on — all tools that you could use as a part of some larger, elaborate scenario to rid a town of enemies, for instance — rather than just being about bar brawls or shootouts in front of the saloon or other generic shit. It's called creativity.

To me it seems that you see Wild West RPGs as some kind of weird reenactment of Western movies, like your comment about people "not losing HP" in movies and your view of "the basic combat scenario", but it's just a setting that can be used to tell any kind of a story you see fit. From an RPG perspective it's potentially useful because human life is cheap in it and killing is tolerated to an extent, a similarity it shares with most medieval fantasy and post-apocalyptic settings but which tends to pose a problem with many other historical/real-life settings. LARPing Clint Eastwood could be a part of the game but it wouldn't have to revolve around that idea.

 

[Infinitron]

Combat in a Western RPG could play out like fucking JA2 if you wanted it to

I'm sure it could, I'm just not sure that's all that interesting. Like I said in my first post ITT, doing "Fallout IN X!!" or "Jagged Alliance IN X!!" seems gimmicky.

I'm willing to entertain the idea of controlling of more than one character, though.

 

[mondblut]

Combat in a Western RPG could play out like fucking JA2 if you wanted it to

Minus grenades, RPGs, mortars, tear and mustard gas, burst fire, long range scoped shooting, machineguns, silencers and night vision, body armor... In other words, it could play out like fucking JA2 in Omerta. Very excitement, much fun, wow.

Srsly, early phase in every RPG is gutwrenchingly boring. Pistols and entry level shotguns fired at point blank range at pistol and entry level shotgun-armed mooks, rusty knives and one magic missile vs giant rats, does anyone at all on this planet find it entertaining?! The only reason we endure this garbage is the knowledge that if we persevere, we eventually reach the fun part: the fireballs, the FN FALs, the gatling lasers, and the adversaries worthy of using this stuff on.

"pre-modern realism" means this fun part does not exist by definition. You are stuck with pistols and rusty knives against mooks with pistols and rusty knives for the entire duration of the game. The most you can hope for is a non-rusty knife, or a pistol that shoots one cell further. Why would anyone willingly endure such crap?

 

[V_K]

How the fuck did the thread about (presumably very desirable) setting diversity devolve into a discussion of a single type of setting, and a very uninspired one at that?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Minus grenades, RPGs, mortars, tear and mustard gas, burst fire, long range scoped shooting, machineguns, silencers and night vision, body armor... In other words, it could play out like fucking JA2 in Omerta. Very excitement, much fun, wow.

You can throw dynamite, there were machineguns in the wild west (gatling guns), add to that knife throwing for stealth kills, sniper riffles, shotguns being utilized, bows, horse riding and all the mystical bullshit you want to add to the game. Conquistador was basically the same shit and it was a fun game to play.