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Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,883
it's cute how you assume this will ever come out.

Considering its progress it will come out and it isn't vaporware. Progress is well documented every week/day if you fallow CIG forums, youtube and so on.
Now including all streachgoals beside those in original funding campaign is different matter though it doesn't concern me as i don't give shit about multiplayer. What i want is S42 campaign.

Also i think it is safe to assume there won't be single player universe. Naturally they say there will be but considering ED and that it will require completely different approaches to economy design and so on they will drop it and troll people expecting that.
 

SuicideBunny

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Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Torment: Tides of Numenera
Considering its progress it will come out and it isn't vaporware. Progress is well documented every week/day if you fallow CIG forums, youtube and so on.
Now including all streachgoals beside those in original funding campaign is different matter though it doesn't concern me as i don't give shit about multiplayer. What i want is S42 campaign.
progress doesn't guarantee a finished product. heck, being finished doesn't even guarantee it coming out, just look at the fate of flying saucer.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Yup. It's all vaporware until they actually bother to make a game. Everything else is just a rigged demo. Wasn't there a game mentioned recently on the forums, which claimed to even have a beta, but then the devs finally 'fessed up and admitted it was all fake, all vaporware, and there was never a game and they weren't actually going to make one?

Just goes to show, doesn't matter what they claim, it's all lies and propaganda. Nothing more than vaporware.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,883
Considering its progress it will come out and it isn't vaporware. Progress is well documented every week/day if you fallow CIG forums, youtube and so on.
Now including all streachgoals beside those in original funding campaign is different matter though it doesn't concern me as i don't give shit about multiplayer. What i want is S42 campaign.
progress doesn't guarantee a finished product. heck, being finished doesn't even guarantee it coming out, just look at the fate of flying saucer.

Like i said progress is well documented (probably best documentation from all crowdfunding projects) and they probably still want to make even more money on actual things which should be logical because they already "sold" 680k preorders and since people can count we are looking here at 5-10mln seller when it will be released if they won't fuck up. And if they will release amazing game then 10mln+ is not really dream for them.

If you can count 5-10mln sales is enough money to buy RPGcodex site, 1000 prostitutes, fill codex with those prostitutes and pay them huge sallary for rest of their lifes to post here and still have enough cash to do anything you want for rest of your life. Count then possible F2P mechanics for their persistant universe and community of wales (which is proven at this point) and Chris probably soon will have enough money to buy himself a nation in africa and became king tasting every virgin in country to end of his life.

He would be idiot if he would now take money and go somewhere else with it.
 

SuicideBunny

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Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Torment: Tides of Numenera
He would be idiot if he would now take money and go somewhere else with it.
i didn't say anything about him running off with the money. the sheer scope and ambition of this provides many possibilities for it to fail. heck, all it needs to be slowly bled dry is people somewhat losing interest because of long dev time or "good enough" alternatives coming out in the meantime.
 

Norfleet

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Messages
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If you can count 5-10mln sales is enough money to buy RPGcodex site, 1000 prostitutes, fill codex with those prostitutes and pay them huge sallary for rest of their lifes to post here and still have enough cash to do anything you want for rest of your life. Count then possible F2P mechanics for their persistant universe and community of wales (which is proven at this point) and Chris probably soon will have enough money to buy himself a nation in africa and became king tasting every virgin in country to end of his life.

He would be idiot if he would now take money and go somewhere else with it.
Really? He'd be an idiot if he took the money and decided to become a king instead? I wouldn't say THAT. Besides, stuff like that has already happened. It cannot be ruled out. I agree it is not the most likely scenario, but it cannot be ruled out.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,661
Well, for all we know he may use the money to build a rocket and fly himself into the sun. It is not the most likely scenario, BUT IT CANNOT BE RULED OUT.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,883
He would be idiot if he would now take money and go somewhere else with it.
i didn't say anything about him running off with the money. the sheer scope and ambition of this provides many possibilities for it to fail. heck, all it needs to be slowly bled dry is people somewhat losing interest because of long dev time or "good enough" alternatives coming out in the meantime.

I think you forgot that it isn't planned as one thing release somewhere in xyz.

First will be S42 campaign then persistant universe. With persistant universe they can add/remove things when they want. But like i said i don't give a fuck about that aspect and i will enjoy tears of people when they won't be able to play their shitty universe few years down the line.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,661
I think a lot of the stuff they are implementing isn't really going to cut down on the main core of the game anyway, it is just a matter of spending more money. Take the FPS shit. One of the most time consuming things in those type of games is level design and world building. But in a space sim there usually isn't a whole lot of that. Space for the most part is just an empty void with a bunch of scenery pre-sets that are plastered randomly all over the place. So what difference does it make if Chris Roberts hires another team to build an FPS game into the main sim? Its not like those level designers would be doing anything else. And aside for the embarrassingly bad roleplaying in the promo video (enemy at two a clock! this is totally strategic guyz omg!), what they showed didn't seem really that amateurish. Possibly just average. Looked like some kind of Counter Strike bullshit, which isn't bad considering its just a smaller part in a bigger game. They already have interiors for space stations and ships, so using those as maps for FPS combat isn't really that big of an undertaking.

Hybrid games usually are not known to excel at everything they do anyway, it just depends on how those elements add to the rest. Stealth in Deux Ex wasn't as good as in a dedicated game like Thief, but it was still entertaining in its own right considering everything else the game had to offer. Maybe (probably) i'm going to end up disappointed but for once i want to remain a bit optimistic about a game. What they shown so far doesn't really look that incompetent and they have a shit load of money to rely upon to cover up for whatever fuck up they make during development, so they might just pull it off. We'll see in a couple of years i guess.
 

Norfleet

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Messages
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Well, for all we know he may use the money to build a rocket and fly himself into the sun. It is not the most likely scenario, BUT IT CANNOT BE RULED OUT.
Well, aside from the fact that this has never actually happened before, whereas we have documented cases of "devs take the money and run", so things occur all the time. There is precedent for the case of developers taking the money and running, therefore, it happens all the time. While it seems unlikely that someone as high-profile as Christ Roberts would pull such a stunt, that would also be exactly what he'd expect you to think, too. This combination places the event as "not extremely likely, but still highly plausible".
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,661
I love all the contradicting sentences. "It does happen on occasion, which means it happens all the time". "Not very likely, but still highly plausible".

This is what crowd funding frauds look like:

http://www.supercompressor.com/gear/kickstarter-frauds-worst-crooks-in-crowdfunding

I don't see how it is actually feasible for anyone to pocket 30+ million dollars and simply "run off" (run where anyway), let alone plan such a thing in advance, especially from somebody who has no real criminal history and is merely just a fucking nerd video game producer. Very plausible indeed, just look at this man's hardened criminal face:

chris-roberts.jpg


Quite clearly, he must have masterminded the biggest scam in crowd funding history. No way he simply wanted to make another space sim.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
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There is no doubt in my mind that Roberts went into this with the best of intentions and none of the expertise required to manage other peoples money. Drunk on the influx if kickshekels, they've squandered away vast amounts of money on ever more ambitious ways to not release a product.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
The most likely scenario is that due to all those ships sales this becomes like STO were you have tons of ships being sold by a ingame store costing real money and the game devolves into nothing but freemium cash shop grabs supported by whales.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,661
He did well under Origin so the problem is not lack of expertise, but lack of restraint. I don't think he is incompetent as much as he simply lacks self discipline. He kinda fucked up with Digital Anvil since his ambitions were bigger than his means. Here, he has all the means he wants and unlike with Digital Anvil he is focusing on one game alone. I very much doubt the final product is going to justify the budget but whether its going to be completely worthless is another question altogether. Freelancer failed to deliver on a lot of shit too but the final game wasn't horrible.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,883
Who didn't fuck up in ~2002 ?
This was the time when most of people didn't know how much stuff takes to do proper 3D game. Then he got fed up with games for a while and did this:

"In 2004, Roberts earned an Executive Producer credit on The Punisher and produced The Big White (Robin Williams, Holly Hunter, Woody Harrelson) and Lord Of War"

Then he secured 20mln for Star Citizent via investors. Made 6mln via crowdfunding and continued campain to completely fuck investors and go straight for crowdfunding money.

He is like Jesus. He just needs to talk to someone and everybody showers him with money.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
I love all the contradicting sentences. "It does happen on occasion, which means it happens all the time". "Not very likely, but still highly plausible".
No contradiction. Florida is routinely razed to the ground by hurricanes. This happens all the time. That it will happen tomorrow isn't particularly likely, but it's still highly plausible if it were to happen.

I don't see how it is actually feasible for anyone to pocket 30+ million dollars and simply "run off" (run where anyway), let alone plan such a thing in advance, especially from somebody who has no real criminal history and is merely just a fucking nerd video game producer.
What do you mean, you don't see how it's feasible? This happens all the time, scammers routinely take crowds for millions. 30mil is practically smallfry when it comes to elaborate mass scams.
 

Drax

Arcane
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
10,986
Location
Silver City, Southern Lands
I love all the contradicting sentences. "It does happen on occasion, which means it happens all the time". "Not very likely, but still highly plausible".
No contradiction. Florida is routinely razed to the ground by hurricanes. This happens all the time. That it will happen tomorrow isn't particularly likely, but it's still highly plausible if it were to happen..
:hmmm:
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
I love all the contradicting sentences. "It does happen on occasion, which means it happens all the time". "Not very likely, but still highly plausible".
No contradiction. Florida is routinely razed to the ground by hurricanes. This happens all the time. That it will happen tomorrow isn't particularly likely, but it's still highly plausible if it were to happen.

I don't see how it is actually feasible for anyone to pocket 30+ million dollars and simply "run off" (run where anyway), let alone plan such a thing in advance, especially from somebody who has no real criminal history and is merely just a fucking nerd video game producer.
What do you mean, you don't see how it's feasible? This happens all the time, scammers routinely take crowds for millions. 30mil is practically smallfry when it comes to elaborate mass scams.[Citation Needed]
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
Oh, Norfleet is pushing his game development fraud shtick again? The guy appears to be convinced that when a game is cancelled, it's proof that it was always a scam, games never get cut simply because of mismanagement or the project just not working out.
 

Drax

Arcane
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
10,986
Location
Silver City, Southern Lands
So, this happened:

Arena Commander 1.0 Released!

Greetings Citizens,
Arena Commander 1.0 is here! Today’s release marks the most significant update to Arena Commander yet, adding both the long-awaited lobby system and more than tripling the number of flyable ships. Every variant of the Aurora, Mustang, 300 and Hornet are now flyable, as are the base models of the Cutlass and the Avenger. If you’ve been waiting to fly one of Star Citizen’s single-seaters, there’s a good chance your ship has come in today!

Arena Commander 1.0 adds a host of new ship upgrades as well as significant enhancements to many of the game’s systems. Included for the first time are a ship signature system, a thruster power system, and a lateral g-force system. It contains the first iteration of the game’s lobby and we have launched a friends system in the game and on the RSI site to help you connect. Audio and visual effects have been updated throughout the game, with new animations, new textures, new cameras and more. You can find the complete list of changes, which range from the major updates below to dozens of game balancing changes and technical fixes, in the patch notes.

As you know, the team has been working very hard to release Arena Commander today and we’re especially excited to publish this patch before our Holiday break. We would have ideally liked another 4-5 days of internal stress testing and polish but with everyone looking forward to some well-earned time off I didn’t want to eat into people’s break. That said, being cognizant of the fact that the upcoming holidays are a time when everyone (myself included) looks forward to playing their favorite games we wanted to make sure that we released Arena Commander 1.0 for all our backers to enjoy over the holidays. With that in mind, I’ve opted to push today’s build of Arena Commander 1.0 to all of our backers today. So please, enjoy this significant update, give us your feedback, and we’ll come back in the New Year ready to continue polishing Arena Commander and developing the BDSSE!

I would like to stress that today’s release of Arena Commander 1.0 is a beginning, not an ending. This milestone does not denote the completion of Arena Commander, it kicks off an even more significant phase of its development. With this update, we’ve added a significant number of ships, items, missiles, and systems which means more interconnected systems, more servers to stress and more bugs to squash. These future changes won’t be limited to fixing technical glitches and balance issues.

Some elements, like the initial Avenger and Cutlass, will be converted to the new modular ship component system, but we wanted long-waiting owners to get an early look at their ships. So I encourage you to experience everything we’ve added to Arena Commander 1.0, but also to know that much, much more is in the works!

And that is where you come in! With this update, there’s a lot more for the community to help us test. So get on the forums and share your feedback and let us know your thoughts, criticisms, and ideas on everything that we’ve added. Every experience you report today, positive or negative, will help us make a better game tomorrow and come January 2nd, we will go back to work making Arena Commander even better.

Thank you for your continued support, and I sincerely hope you enjoy Arena Commander 1.0. I think that it’s a great indication of where we’re going with the Star Citizen experience. I’d like to close by saying Happy Holidays to backers everywhere. I wish you all the joy in the world and look forward to continuing our journey in the coming year.

— Chris Roberts

New Manual
The Cloud Imperium publications team has produced an updated version of the Arena Commander manual in honor of 1.0! Check out the latest ships, learn about the new upgrades and how to use the game’s new systems.

Grab your PDF copy here:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/hwb5×45eghhelr/source/AC-Manual-1-0-V6.pdf

New Ships
Arena Commander 1.0 introduces fourteen ships to the dogfighting experience! From the jack-of-all-trades Aurora ES to the fearsome Avenger, Star Citizen’s combat balance is going through a major revision. In addition to ships sold as concepts, we’ve put a number of newly-available ships (including the Mustang lineup) for sale in the pledge store.


New Components
In addition to new ships, Arena Commander 1.0 adds an assortment of additional ship components to the game. Now backers will be able to further customize their ship’s loadout with a level of complexity unseen before. We are offering some of this additional equipment for UEC via the Voyager Direct store.

  • New guns
  • New missile racks
  • Missile ammo!
Visit your Voyager Direct dealer!

Public Test Universe
Arena Commander 1.0 isn’t the only big launch for the team today! As you may have noticed on your accounts, we are also kicking off something we’re calling the Public Test Universe. The Public Test Universe, or PTU, is a new server environment which will allow us to selectively push more experimental builds of Star Citizen to players who wish to assist with more hardcore testing of our game, balance and systems. With the PTU, we will be able to do more testing and get more feedback between patches, all while sharing more of Star Citizen’s development with backers! PTU releases will be launched in “phases,” with varying amounts of players given access as are needed for tests. If your account is eligible, you can start the process under account settings in the My RSI > Settings > Public Test Universe panel.

HUD
Debug_snr_detection_graph.png
Debug Mode: SNR Detection Graph
We’re proud to introduce in Arena Commander 1.0 our initial implementation of the in-cockpit user-interface. We have designated the Aurora to be the “prototype” ship to host much of the HUD information and interaction you’ve been seeing in the visor on the cockpit’s display panels. This represents our first step towards diversifying the HUD / UI so that each ship can have a unique and immersive piloting experience. The technology that allows us to achieve this diegetic projection of interface elements is called Scaleform 3Di. 3Di allows us the ability to project any number of UI components anywhere we want within the game world with minimal effort in terms of setup. This technology, in conjunction with our robust UI framework provides us with a highly flexible system to create truly unique interfaces with their own visual languages and interaction rules. It also allows us to iterate very efficiently with regards to the positioning, scale, and rotation of these elements within the game-world.
But the Aurora isn’t the only ship to receive an upgrade to the UI. We have also made some updates to the Combat Visor Interface (CVI) to have a more immersive feel when you’re wearing your helmet. Now, when looking at your character in 3rd person, the HUD can be seen actually projected inside the helmet and conforming to the helmet’s geometry.

To help address some of the complaints about visibility of certain UI elements on brighter backgrounds, we have introduced an additive blending mode for the HUD which essentially “brightens” UI elements when displayed against bright backgrounds such as the planet on Broken Moon. This means that elements such as the reticle and hit predictors will be much more visible because they will always appear brighter than the backgrounds that they are projected against. This also has the benefit of making the HUD look much better visually and less “flat”, because its brightness and color is more reactive to the environment. Going forward, we will continue to improve on this blending to provide pilots with the best readability for a given environment while still retaining the nice visual look we want for the HUD.

Missiles
Hud_snr_enemy.png
Debug Mode: Enemy SNR
We’ve had missiles in the game before, but for 1.0 we went back to the basics of what missile gameplay could mean and created a unique mechanic that creates a variety of other potential uses outside of simply blowing a target up, such as the ability to lock multiple missiles onto a target (or multiple targets, if your ship can handle it).

Adding these sorts of changes into missiles meant touching a whole host of other systems. The radar needed revamping to read all the signatures properly, the HUD had to be revisited to communicate any number of missiles, the controller/keybound input had to be modified to accommodate missile management while also keeping the system available and useful in the heat of battle, and the targeting computer needed to be linked to each missile individually (rather than just the rack that fires them) to accommodate the wide range of missile types and behaviors that became available.

Then we built the Rattler missile, the first example of many of our new missile behaviors to come, which carries its own salvo of Venom rockets to hunt down your enemies. It’s a very satisfying weapon to use, try not to get so distracted watching it that you forget to stay in the fight! There’s also the new rocket pods strapped to the Mustang Delta, presenting the first opportunity to use dumbfire ordnance. I look forward to seeing the videos of skillshots that come out of those things.

The final piece of the puzzle was a new look at countermeasures. In most games, the use of countermeasures would be effectively the same as using an accuracy debuff – thing enters the field, thing has trouble hitting the target, simple as that. Here, we actually have the countermeasures affecting the signal system directly, which means that you aren’t playing against arbitrary data – you can just as easily escape an enemy radar as a missile as they are all part of a single data-driven system.

Signature System
One major update to Arena Commander 1.0 is the launch of the Signature System, which we kick off with three measured signatures in today’s build. The Signature System is an important new combat mechanic, which introduces a huge variable to how Arena Commander’s ships face off.

Most objects generate a detectable signature of some sort. These signals take on any number of forms: radio signals, electromagnetic signals, audio signals. Even visual reflectivity is a form of signal. It’s through these signals that we detect objects, and an ability to track them is key in all forms of weapons targeting. Whether it’s a heat-seeking missile homing in on the hottest jet exhaust or an image recognition warhead knocking something out of the sky based on its shape, signals are key to modern warfare.

Under this approach, it stands to reason that most objects in the Star Citizen environment must also generate detectable signals. Our challenge becomes: what signals do we simulate, how do we simulate them and, for the purposes of a variety of gameplay elements, how do we simulate their detection? (That is: how does a missile know that it sees you and how does that differ from how an NPC does the same?)

Signal-to-Noise Ratio
Debug_signal_emission_graph.png
Debug Mode: Signal Emissions Graph
The answer to this final question is that we create a signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) value for every objection. In science and engineering, signal-to-noise ratio is a value that compares the level of a given signal to the amount of background noise. More specifically, it is the ratio of a signal’s power to the background noise’s power. A ratio higher than 1:1 means that there is more signal than noise and that for our purposes an object is more readily detected. In simplest terms, SNR is a value that distinguishes an object from the background.

How do we calculate SNR for an individual situation, defined as targeting between two objects? The magic formula is SNR = 10 * log10( (S * (1-N/100) * (A^Z) * O) / R ). In this equation, S is the target’s signal emission, N is the overall level noise given as a percentage, A is your ship’s radar amplitude, Z is your ship’s radar amplitude power, R is your distance from the target and O is the occlusion influence percent (0 to 1.)

Noise
What, then, is noise in Star Citizen? It’s not an arbitrary value and most importantly it is not a constant! At present, every Star Citizen map contains a default level of noise intended to mimic background cosmic radiation. That’s the general noise present throughout the universe, the general static of the universe that is generated by countless of stars, black holes, quasars and the like. But in addition to a default level of cosmic radiation, Star Citizen is capable of altering the noise on a case by case basis. Imagine flying through an electromagnetic storm, or a gaseous nebula, or into a gravity well. The background noise will increase, often significantly. The SNR ratio will be impacted and the game will make it easier (or, occasionally, harder) for players to keep their ships undetected.

The noise value is determined by measuring the maximum amount of noise between two targets. If there’s a disturbance somewhere between you and your opponent, that increases the measured noise as the two attempt to target one another. This gives rise to one more opportunity for gameplay: the ability to deploy chaff, which generates a temporary artificial field of noise. Upend the ratio yourself to avoid detection or missile locks! (This is essentially the basis upon which actual chaff functions. Instead of telling the computer ‘if chaff is fired, decrease missile’s chance’ we’ve created an overall logical system that autonomously creates the same functionality.)

Hud_self_signal_emissions_self.png
Debug Mode: Own Emissions Levels
Signal
Now that we have noise, including ways to both increase and decrease it, what constitutes a signal? At present, combat in Star Citizen measures three distinct types of signals: infrared, electromagnetic and cross section. Each of these signals, which factor into the overall ’S’ value of your situation’s SNR number, has a distinct set of rules and characteristics intended to emulate how they would function in actual combat.

Infrared – With a ship’s infrared signal, individual items have a heat pool which builds up based on certain actions. An item such as a weapon will generate heat in the pool briefly while firing, whereas an engine might output a steady stream of heat that constantly impacts your infrared signal. Items such as coolers will pull heat away from a given item’s pool, reducing the infrared signature. The cooler impacts the infrared signature based on the amount of heat a ship was cooled (think of it like water cooling your PC!) Thrusters generate heat based on the amount of thrust generated at any given point, dumping this into the heat pool. Thus, thrusters will take time to cool off after use and the resulting infrared signature will take time to dissipate (like a hot car engine on a cold day.) Occlusion lowers the overall detected infrared signature.

Electromagnetic – Electromagnetic energy is generated by a number of items on a standard ship, especially the shield systems and power plants. Shields require power to stay active and additional power during any regeneration. This power requirement generates the electromagnetic signature, meaning that a ship holding with shields active will generate a significant holding signature but that this signature will increase should the shields be damaged and begin recharging. A ship’s power plant generates its electromagnetic signature based on the overall amount of power needed by the ship at a given time. Occlusion also lowers the detected electromagnetic signature.

Cross Section – The cross section signature is based on the actual volume of a given ship using offline calculations which determine the measurements based on each axis. It is our first ship signature to be in 3D. It is based on the view direction of a ship’s cross-section, so the value will change constantly based on the angle from which you can view a target. A Scythe viewed directly head-on will have a significantly lower cross section signature than one viewed from above or below. Unlike electromagnetic and infrared signatures, a ship’s cross section signature value cannot be detected through geometry (other objects that physically block a target.)

With the signature system, we hope to kick off a more complex sort of balance for Arena Commander. Hopefully you can see that, in addition to being the basis for how all objects lock on to one another, Star Citizen’s stealth mechanics will spring directly from the development of this system. Pilots who wish to fly stealthy ships will arrange their upgrades and enhancements in such a way as to reduce power consumption, signal output and even visual size if they wish to score a low SNR. Some ships, such as the Hornet Tracker, will include enhanced functionality to detect and alter signals.

We’re dedicated to making Arena Commander more than just shooting, and we’re excited to expand and balance signals going forward!




:greatjob:
 

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