SC2 HOtS.

[Average Manatee]

It is a bit unfair to compare a game + expansion with just a game without an expansion, especially if it has 2 sheduled already.

Next I expect you'll tell me I can't compare Oblivion to Morrowind because Oblivion only had 1 expansion while Morrowind had 2.

How about no?

 

[Psquit]

- I was hyped with the hybrid race of protoss and zerg in the end they turn out to be overpowered giant chunks of flesh...
- fenix was erased from starcraft 2, not even mention...
- The whole campaing was so forced... it was all about "MUST SAVEH UNIVERSE FOH TEH PUSSAY".
- pointless filler missions like "Go to planet junkyard" "collect gas" "gather christals".
- most of the zerg units looks like they were covered with jelly...

-Cutscenes were MEH... Brood war intro still one of the best from starcraft.

One of the good things were the interactive menus and to have conversation with the others characters kinda like an adventure game.
they have to iron alot of the singleplayer elements... i never cared for multiplayer.

 

[Average Manatee]

-Cutscenes were MEH... Brood war intro still one of the best from starcraft.

One of the best of any game, in any genre.



Don't you just wish we had this quality in games today?

 

[Hellraiser]

Less gimmick missions, where you get a new unit (say, the marauder) and suddenly the mission is specifically designed so that the best way to win is to build 1000 marauders.

Even the most gimmicky of those missions were better and more challenging than most of the SC+BW missions (although not all of them and BW overall was an improvement in mission design over vanilla). On Brutal spamming one unit, especially that which you just got, never worked. Say what you want about SC2 but the mission design and challenge was better than in pretty much every RTS released. Only Tiberian Sun (especially the firestorm missions) can compete with it in that area.

 

[Kane]

It is a bit unfair to compare a game + expansion with just a game without an expansion, especially if it has 2 sheduled already.

Next I expect you'll tell me I can't compare Oblivion to Morrowind because Oblivion only had 1 expansion while Morrowind had 2.

How about no?

No. Both Ob. and Mor. have all their expansions released already. Studios withhold content (and plan the game) just for expacs.

 

[Angthoron]

Less gimmick missions, where you get a new unit (say, the marauder) and suddenly the mission is specifically designed so that the best way to win is to build 1000 marauders.

Even the most gimmicky of those missions were better and more challenging than most of the SC+BW missions (although not all of them and BW overall was an improvement in mission design over vanilla). On Brutal spamming one unit, especially that which you just got, never worked. Say what you want about SC2 but the mission design and challenge was better than in pretty much every RTS released. Only Tiberian Sun (especially the firestorm missions) can compete with it in that area.

Not sure about that. I'm not claiming to be good at this sort of games, but in SC and BW, I had and still do get my ass kicked by the AI, in SC2, however, I had very little difficulty whatsoever, save for a few gimmicky moments or need for micro. Most of the campaign went through on max, without a need to reload a map even once.

Now, in skirmishes, I do get my ass kicked by the AI, but skirmishes aren't the campaign.

 

[Gord]

Did you guys enjoy Broodwar for the campaign as well or just for multiplayer?

I got bored pretty quickly by the campaign, too samey missions, imho.

 

[Ulminati]

Ok, I rather like the feature that lets you watch a replay in sync, then jump in as a player. That's an awesome way to practice an encounter without going through all the steps of teching up and building the units over and over.

Also, it's about god damn time they implemented a way to resume multiplayer games after a disconnect.

If I cared for SC multiplayer (I don't. My multitasking is not up to par) I'd be creaming my pants in anticipation of the replay additions.

 

[kris]

- pointless filler missions like "Go to planet junkyard" "collect gas" "gather christals".

I agree with you on other points, but I don't see these as pointless. Especially since the story was not something I cared about. missions are either good or bad.

 

[Average Manatee]

Less gimmick missions, where you get a new unit (say, the marauder) and suddenly the mission is specifically designed so that the best way to win is to build 1000 marauders.

Even the most gimmicky of those missions were better and more challenging than most of the SC+BW missions (although not all of them and BW overall was an improvement in mission design over vanilla). On Brutal spamming one unit, especially that which you just got, never worked. Say what you want about SC2 but the mission design and challenge was better than in pretty much every RTS released. Only Tiberian Sun (especially the firestorm missions) can compete with it in that area.

More challenging? Sure. Better? No. And for the record spamming one unit does work:

Just for kicks I did the SC2 campaign building only marines and SCVs (medivacs only when missions require them to transport marines). Got all the way up to the last mission without too much trouble.

(No, using only one unit isn't the BEST way to win, but the mission was always disproportionalely biased to the unit you'd gotten to a very high degree)

 

[Hellraiser]

Just for kicks I did the SC2 campaign building only marines and SCVs (medivacs only when missions require them to transport marines). Got all the way up to the last mission without too much trouble.

(No, using only one unit isn't the BEST way to win, but the mission was always disproportionalely biased to the unit you'd gotten to a very high degree)

I said on brutal, being able to pull that off on lower difficulty levels is obvious (especially when one is named "casual"). Even hard isn't so hard. The only way to play the campaign is to play on brutal or not at all.

 

[Average Manatee]

No, I'm always talking about brutal. I've never played the SC2 campaign on a lower difficulty.

 

[Psquit]

- pointless filler missions like "Go to planet junkyard" "collect gas" "gather christals".

I agree with you on other points, but I don't see these as pointless. Especially since the story was not something I cared about. missions are either good or bad.

They were tedious and boring. I wanted more commandos missions, more Defend or hold the zerg... not going to planet protoss to steal their christals...

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but why is BW better than SC2?

And don't just say it's better balanced, go into detail. I'm very curious.

It's not really a question of balance per se. SC2 is quite well balanced. To put it as simply as humanly possible, SC2's multiplayer design craps all over the basic tenets of strategy gaming (most of which reflect qualities of war in the real world in some way), and this makes parts of the game either boring or painfully retarded.

For example, the game lacks any basic mechanical reason to spread your army around the map, instead promoting turtling on three bases, and then attacking with a huge maxed out army. The mobility/power relationship is completely out of whack in SC2, huge armies can cross the entire map in a matter of seconds in many situations, which renders any positional play all but obsolete. Also, the SC2 team has a hardon for unit abilities that make it impossible/difficult to control other units - various slows and stuns and impassable barriers - that go against the basic joy of playing an RTS game: controlling your units to improve their effectiveness. I sometimes fire up Brood War to get owned on Fish, and I always marvel at how fun it is to just micro dragoons around. This also makes retreating extremely costly, which again causes everyone to just sit in their base, massing shit.

If you want me to, I can produce a huge essay on the failings of SC2 Multiplayer, honed by months of arguing with retards on TL.

 

[Psquit]

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but why is BW better than SC2?

And don't just say it's better balanced, go into detail. I'm very curious.

It's not really a question of balance per se. SC2 is quite well balanced. To put it as simply as humanly possible, SC2's multiplayer design craps all over the basic tenets of strategy gaming (most of which reflect qualities of war in the real world in some way), and this makes parts of the game either boring or painfully retarded.

For example, the game lacks any basic mechanical reason to spread your army around the map, instead promoting turtling on three bases, and then attacking with a huge maxed out army. The mobility/power relationship is completely out of whack in SC2, huge armies can cross the entire map in a matter of seconds in many situations, which renders any positional play all but obsolete. Also, the SC2 team has a hardon for unit abilities that make it impossible/difficult to control other units - various slows and stuns and impassable barriers - that go against the basic joy of playing an RTS game: controlling your units to improve their effectiveness. I sometimes fire up Brood War to get owned on Fish, and I always marvel at how fun it is to just micro dragoons around. This also makes retreating extremely costly, which again causes everyone to just sit in their base, massing shit.

If you want me to, I can produce a huge essay on the failings of SC2 Multiplayer, honed by months of arguing with retards on TL.

also the cheesing for example build one barrack early move to the enemy base an begin spamming units, most of the time is effective cause the maps are small.
3vs3 is broken as hell... 3 players gather their armies attack 1 player base then your team mates will Rage calling you noob instead of helping you defending.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I don't really mind the cheese. In SC2 it's mostly really faceroll and much harder on the defender than it is on the attacker, but I don't object to it in principle. What's silly is that the EXTREME macro mechanics often allow players to recover from failed cheese really easily.

 

[Average Manatee]

I don't really mind the cheese. In SC2 it's mostly really faceroll and much harder on the defender than it is on the attacker, but I don't object to it in principle. What's silly is that the EXTREME macro mechanics often allow players to recover from failed cheese really easily.

The same macro mechanics which lets late game terrans have 8 SCVs and still be OK cause mule-spam? Yeah, those are just great

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I don't really mind the cheese. In SC2 it's mostly really faceroll and much harder on the defender than it is on the attacker, but I don't object to it in principle. What's silly is that the EXTREME macro mechanics often allow players to recover from failed cheese really easily.

The same macro mechanics which lets late game terrans have 8 SCVs and still be OK cause mule-spam? Yeah, those are just great

I could live with a Terran racial trait of having a higher supply maxed army, it's not like their lategame is that good. The MULE thing is stupid because they only really need one mining base in the lategame to reach a mineral income the other races need three bases for. One of the reasons lategame is fun is because both players are spread out, so harassment and multi-pronged attacks are more effective. But how do you harass the economy of a Terran who only has one base, and his workers are all temporary?

 

[Psquit]

Heart of the Swarm Digital Deluxe its a joke. Do they actually expect people to pay more for a world of warcraft pet, ultralisk reskin and some Blade Wings & Banner Sigil for diablo 3 ? haha...

Edit: I cant bitch about customers service because for me it was great...

 

[Jasede]

As much as I hated the story and writing of SC2 I'll say that I loved the varied mission design. You never do the same thing twice, it's never boring. It's impressive that they came up with that in this day and age.

*ducks flames*

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

Do they actually expect people to pay more for a world of warcraft pet, ultralisk reskin and some Blade Wings & Banner Sigil for diablo 3 ? haha...

Yes?
Knowing the people special little snowflakes playing those games, ActiBlizz will make quite a few extra shittons of $, easy.

 

[Psquit]

Do they actually expect people to pay more for a world of warcraft pet, ultralisk reskin and some Blade Wings & Banner Sigil for diablo 3 ? haha...

Yes?
Knowing the people special little snowflakes playing those games, ActiBlizz will make quite a few extra shittons of $, easy.

well, if people actually pay to play a beta then this is like a walk to the park...

 

[Destroid]

I'm a little shocked at the praise for the SC2 single player, I think I got through 3 missions before I switched it off due to insufferable boredom.

 

[Psquit]

This should be canon

 

[Average Manatee]

Bros I cried when Fenix died. When I killed him.