Interview Sawyer, Brennecke and Adler on Eternity's megadungeon and other stuff at Rock Paper Shotgun

[tuluse]

http://www.customink.com/designs/md...76683&cm_mmc=hotlink-_-3-_-Body_txt-_-button1

 

[evdk]

I demand the Archer game to be made. Archer Protocol!

 

[Tigranes]

The next KS better be Alpha Protocol 2.

It won't be, but if it is I'd be packing up a few things to sell and raise money right now.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Sounds like someone has been reading Grognardia. But will the megadungeon feature more OD&D-style solutions?

 

[Grunker]

The next KS better be Alpha Protocol 2.

What a horrible thought :O

 

[Duraframe300]

George answered my question and he's not yet involved btw.

 

[Mrowak]

Sawyer: My direction for designing it has been that the ramp in difficulty goes up faster than you can level while in it. [laughs] So I kind of want the player to hit… You go through, you go down a couple levels, then you go to the next level and you’re like, “WHOA! Okay!” Either it forces them to get really serious about tactics, or they’re like, “You know what? I’m gonna go out to do some more quests, come back, and go deeper down.”

I wish this involved simply greater encounter design as opposed to tinkering with the numbers. The latter's pretty lame, methinks.

 

[Grunker]

Sawyer: My direction for designing it has been that the ramp in difficulty goes up faster than you can level while in it. [laughs] So I kind of want the player to hit… You go through, you go down a couple levels, then you go to the next level and you’re like, “WHOA! Okay!” Either it forces them to get really serious about tactics, or they’re like, “You know what? I’m gonna go out to do some more quests, come back, and go deeper down.”

I wish this involved simply greater encounter design as opposed to tinkering with the numbers. The latter's pretty lame, methinks.

I think it's fine to meet higher resistance in terms of the level of monsters. Part of the reason I love lack of level scaling is the thrill of winning battles you're not "meant to" or the lessons learned by losing ones you probably should be able to beat without too much trouble. Or just creaming stuff because you've outleveled it

 

[Grotesque]

The kickstarter will kickstart the finishing of Arcanum playthrough by Avellone.
You want Avellone's in depth analysis at the end of the playthrough also with special commentary by Tim Cain on DVD?
Just pledge 10 USD more!

 

[Servo]

Sawyer: It’s going to be big. Scope is quality in this game. In this game, we believe that scope is a part of the perceived quality of the game that we are making. The trend has been generally, for many, many games… It’s like, tighter, more focused, more unique. We still want places to feel unique and have cool unique content in them, but we must have a big game.

Uhh, does this not worry anyone else?

I thought that stuff about recapturing the whole Baldur's Gate experience was a bad joke.

 

[Infinitron]

Sawyer: It’s going to be big. Scope is quality in this game. In this game, we believe that scope is a part of the perceived quality of the game that we are making. The trend has been generally, for many, many games… It’s like, tighter, more focused, more unique. We still want places to feel unique and have cool unique content in them, but we must have a big game.

Uhh, does this not worry anyone else?

I thought that stuff about recapturing the whole Baldur's Gate experience was a bad joke.

They seem to be on schedule, so why worry?

 

[Servo]

They seem to be on schedule, so why worry?

Sorry, I meant to say Baldur's Gate sucked.

 

[cherry blossom]

Sawyer on stealth:

“The stealth wizard on the other side of the room comes in and says, ‘Fireball!’ He blasts it"

What was it that I have been saying for years? Oh yes, stealth for Obsidian:

 

[Infinitron]

They seem to be on schedule, so why worry?

Sorry, I meant to say Baldur's Gate sucked.

In that case, stay far away from this game because: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJwti0mHgE0#t=1519

I am very angry that isometric RPGs aren't stalking simulators

We know.

 

[Servo]

We need a troll fail emote.

 

[Infinitron]

You gave up too quickly.

 

[Athelas]

Sawyer on stealth:

“The stealth wizard on the other side of the room comes in and says, ‘Fireball!’ He blasts it"

What was it that I have been saying for years? Oh yes, stealth for Obsidian:

Eh, I think you're taking that quote of context.

And what do you mean by 'stealth for Obsidian'? Are you referring to hiding behind chest high walls in Alpha Protocol? That is pretty much the current standard for stealth in AAA games, not just Obsidian's.

 

[Infinitron]

Sawyer on stealth:

“The stealth wizard on the other side of the room comes in and says, ‘Fireball!’ He blasts it"

What was it that I have been saying for years? Oh yes, stealth for Obsidian:

Eh, I think you're taking that quote of context.

And what do you mean by 'stealth for Obsidian'? Are you referring to hiding behind chest high walls? That is pretty much the current standard for stealth in AAA games, not just Obsidian's.

VOTS has a very, very idealized vision for stealth in RPGs, one that has never been realized in any RPG. Basically he's mad that it's only used for combat and not for, I don't know, sneaking up behind NPCs and scaring them? Not sure. He wants something more holistic and integrated with the rest of the game world.

That's okay, but the weird thing is that for some reason he blames Obsidian and ONLY Obsidian for the lack of more holistic stealth, and not every other game developer in the industry.

 

[Lhynn]

VOTS has a very, very idealized vision for stealth in RPGs, one that has never been realized in any RPG. Basically he's mad that it's only used for combat and not for, I don't know, sneaking up behind NPCs and scaring them? Not sure. He wants something more holistic and integrated with the rest of the game world.
That's okay, but the weird thing is that for some reason he blames Obsidian and ONLY Obsidian for the lack of more holistic stealth, and not every other game developer in the industry.

Well, from what i tell, he means that stealth should be about avoiding encounters altogether, not making them easier. That avoiding encounters shouldnt be penalized (lack of reward is in and on itself a penalty).
Open world design makes it impossible tho, because you can always go back and kill them. Perhaps i am mistaken in my assesment, but thats what i think he means.

And as for blaiming obsidian and only obsidian, maybe he gave up on everyone else?
Btw, is cherry blossom villian of the story or some other VOTS?

 

[Decado]

Stealth in most games is pretty abstract, and it will likely always will be. "Real" stealth would be a frustrating nightmare to play, and most people would find it boring and tedious as all hell.

 

[Infinitron]

Btw, is cherry blossom villian of the story

The one and only.

 

[Servo]

Stealth in most games is pretty abstract, and it will likely always will be. "Real" stealth would be a frustrating nightmare to play, and most people would find it boring and tedious as all hell.

You mean like in The Dark Mod?

 

[cherry blossom]

Eh, I think you're taking that quote of context.

Not necessarily. He said other stuff too but I am only cherry picking. In or out of context, that quote is a perfect reflection of what Sawyer's/Obsidian's idea of stealth is.

Sawyer on stealth:

“The stealth wizard on the other side of the room comes in and says, ‘Fireball!’ He blasts it"

What was it that I have been saying for years? Oh yes, stealth for Obsidian:

Eh, I think you're taking that quote of context.

And what do you mean by 'stealth for Obsidian'? Are you referring to hiding behind chest high walls? That is pretty much the current standard for stealth in AAA games, not just Obsidian's.

VOTS cherry blossom has a very, very idealized vision for stealth in RPGs, one that has never been realized in any RPG. Basically he's mad that it's only used for combat and not for, I don't know, sneaking up behind NPCs and scaring them? Not sure. He wants something more holistic and integrated with the rest of the game world.

That's okay, but the weird thing is that for some reason he blames Obsidian and ONLY Obsidian for the lack of more holistic stealth, and not every other game developer in the industry.

Nonsense. JA2 has a near-perfect stealth system. Arx Fatalis has a good one, very reminiscent of the Thief experience. The last few Bethesda games have it pretty tight. DX, DXHR have it okay. NOLF has an okay one. NOLF2 has a good one. Even Fallout has a functioning one that can be tense and enjoyable. And they are all holistic but nothing too complicated. There is a good number of good examples in fact. I don't know about "AAA" games but if we are to judge and compare an Obsidian game by shitty "AAA" games, that alone speaks volumes about the game.

As for why I go on and on about Obsidian alone: is there anybody else to bicker about at all? What other developer of RPGs is there that is in dire need of a critique to improve their stealth systems? I bicker about Obsidian because they keep adding the shittiest stealth systems, thinking it is good stuff and adds to the diversity when it is just a steaming pile of shit, if not merely utterly forgettable.

 

[Athelas]

Nonsense. JA2 has a near-perfect stealth system. Arx Fatalis has a good one, very reminiscent of the Thief experience. The last few Bethesda games have it pretty tight. DX, DXHR have it okay. NOLF has an okay one. NOLF2 has a good one. Even Fallout has a functioning one that can be tense and enjoyable. And they are all holistic but nothing too complicated. There is a good number of good examples in fact. I don't know about "AAA" games but if we are to judge and compare an Obsidian game by shitty "AAA" games, that alone speaks volumes about the game.

All those games were released over a decade ago. By 'industry standard for stealth', I was obviously referring to the relatively recent popamole trend.

For comparison, this is how the 'Citizen Kane of gaming' implemented stealth (not shown is the skill that lets you see enemies through walls):

Spoiler

 

[Infinitron]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake