Review RPG Watch reviews Geneforge 4

[Roqua]

You guysv are a bunch of poser fucking retards, why do any of you even fake you like rpgs? Why not go play halo, oblivion, nwn, and gothic 3 and stay the fuck out of anything that doesn't adhere to your elite levels of graphic whoreness, you pansy ass maries.

Spiderweb games are great, independent developers will always outshine the drivel big companies are shitting out now-days, and if the game buyers were such fucking morons and had a little taste we'd have a lot more good games being made. But you guys have shit taste so publishers fund shit and debelopers produce it. Reap what you sow you fucking queers. But don't worry, halo and bethesda and bio are still making your games you cocksucking bitches.

 

[Jasede]

Oh, just fuck you. It's one thing to make a primitive-looking, good and playable game, it's another not to improve anything after, what, eight games. Avernum doesn't even have walking animations! I would be content if Jeff Vogel added a walking-frame! But he didn't manage that in what seems like a decade.

Again, fuck you. I don't mind primitive graphics if they at least are coherent or are functional. Arcanum, rogue-likes, Daggerfall. But NOT improving your shitty game after releasing like 6 of them is just a rip-off of the consumer. He could have hired someone to at least make some animations with the profits, anything would be better. Heck- some people would draw shit for him for free even!

You're a fucking cocksmoker; there's a difference between good graphics and good artwork, and even a game that has neither should not be optically insulting.

You're a fucking queer, Roqua.

 

[Volourn]

Nothing wrong with Independnet games. There is soemthing wrong with SW games. They are crap role-playing games. Just plain old fashion crap. Unless, of course, the demos are NOT the same as the atcual game which would be utter bullshit.

Roqua forgets that I praise VD's game 9even though I atcually haven't tired it) because it sound slike it'll actually be good. Lats i checked, it's an independent game and considering are Fun Fued tm as well.

P.S. I have never played Halo or Oblivion, G3 is ok but I have sisues with it, and NWN is awesome! It's an actual GOOD RPG unlike SW.

TB does not = good RPG.

R00fles!

 

[The Dude]

A lot of clueless crap.

I could go on about how the mainstream gaming companies needs to maximize profits and have to have easily marketable products catering to as large a group of people as possible while indies with their smaller budgets can focus on a narrower fanbase and promote gameplay instead of graphics. I could also go on about how "fighting the good fight" is a silly notion at best at the moment, with the market and industry looking like it does.

But fuck that.
I doubt I would be able to change your mind anyway.
So for the moment I'll just leave it at "your dumbfuck tag is well deserved".

 

[Section8]

1. They are made by talentless hacks who can not find employment making them elsewhere or whos ideas are so off base that they cannot find enough financing to make a marketable product. Honestly, they can never compare to the antiqaited games they emulate so why bother?

"Off base", like as in different from the "safe" option of the uninspired Tolkien-esque blockbuster model of RPG? Also, you're getting the chicken before the egg on the idea of a marketable product.

2. They distract from the "good fight" as stated above. We should be about convincing real game companies to raise their standards instead of silencing our own voice by making due with retro garbage. The more we shift to "indie" games the easier it will be for the mainstream to ignore rpg fans. It illustrates clearly to them how out of whack our expectations are.

Another questionable viewpoint. The more we shift to indie games, the easier it is for RPG fans to ignore the mainstream. The more indie games we have to satisfy our craving, the less need we have of mainstream shit The bigger the indie scene, the louder the buzz it generates. It's a fucking snowball, that may never crush the industry, but who gives a fuck if we already have what we want?

I say all this as an optimist who still believes we can change the bigger picture rather then accepting the obsolecence indie gaming will eventually bring.

You say optimism, I say naivety.

And what's with the retro obsession? Just because cutting edge visuals are ridiculously expensive in terms of manpower and resources, and must be scrimped on accordingly, that doesn't mean the guts of the game are regressive.

Accomplish though you may be at pushing the right buttons, you have much to learn, Krow.

 

[Jasede]

Again, S8 hits the nail on the head. While I may not like indie RPGs so far, they got the ball rolling, and there's more and more indie-projects. AoD got a lot of coverage so far and I think this is a good development. I'm fairly optimistic about that game and I hope, no matter how it turns out, it'll cause people to take notice.

 

[The Dude]

Yeah, Section8 say what I think, only so much better.

 

[Elwro]

Avernum's graphics are functionable. And don't joke about that keygen again, the demos are very big...

 

[Nedrah]

More of this indie nonsense? You folks are marganalizing yourselves with every post.

Whatever happened to fighting the good fight?

The good fight?
You can only complain about how you got a plate full of shit when you ordered a steak for so long. Indie is where it's going to be for us - we are not there, yet. However, we already have a really marginal role in the mainstream, where people have successfully been convinced that steak comes in different shades of brown and stinks a lot.

 

[Amasius]

Avernum doesn't even have walking animations! I would be content if Jeff Vogel added a walking-frame! But he didn't manage that in what seems like a decade.

Play Geneforge 4. It has walking animations! How awesome is that!

 

[Roqua]

Oh, just fuck you. It's one thing to make a primitive-looking, good and playable game, it's another not to improve anything after, what, eight games. Avernum doesn't even have walking animations! I would be content if Jeff Vogel added a walking-frame! But he didn't manage that in what seems like a decade.

Again, fuck you. I don't mind primitive graphics if they at least are coherent or are functional. Arcanum, rogue-likes, Daggerfall. But NOT improving your shitty game after releasing like 6 of them is just a rip-off of the consumer. He could have hired someone to at least make some animations with the profits, anything would be better. Heck- some people would draw shit for him for free even!

You're a fucking cocksmoker; there's a difference between good graphics and good artwork, and even a game that has neither should not be optically insulting.

You're a fucking queer, Roqua.

What did the goldbox games improve? I would much rather have more of the same when I like it, then streamlined fancy games less often that suck. I would have loved to see Troika do the same with arcanum and toee and even bloodlines. Just reuse and come out with new games with the same assets reused over and over.

Are you saying Daggerfall got improved upon? I think Daggerfall imrpoved upon arena, but morrowind was utter crap and I didnt even buy oblivion. Is FO3 the "improvement" you're looking for? Get the fuck out of town. Spiderweb is slowly improving things over time, the graphics are fine, his games are released bug-free, and I can bank on spiderweb releasing a game worth buying pretty often.

His games are easily ignored as he is an indy developer. Focus on your big fancy gay games, provide your feedback to them. Leave the little guy, the only guy not catering to pansy bitches, out of it.

 

[MacBone]

So, Roqua, where ya been?

 

[dagorkan]

The only problem with SpiderWeb is that they are practically the only people in the whole fucking world making real RPGs.

Yeah their graphics are not great, and in a perfect world I also would like them to have 'walking animations', bump maps, reflective water and all that shit. The point is that even without the walking animations they're better than most of what passes for an RPGs nowadays.

Yeah. Stalker, Gothic 3, Bioshock, Mass Effect, the latest Might & Magic, The Witcher, Fallout 3, Sacred 2, Oblivion. 90% of Codex members love/look forward to at least one of those games and will purchase them after a brief bitching. If you don't then you subscribe to WoW or some other MMO.

Yet the same people are publicly admitting using keygens to steal Avernum 4 and handing out torrents to KODP. Do not complain about Indies not delivering what you want. The only way we'll get real RPGs again is if we kill the RPG Industry. How do we do that? No, we do not go into a Fallout3 fanboy style faggot-bitch nerd-rage or threaten to rape the developer's wives/daughters...

We do it simply by not buying any fake shit which is labelled 'CRPG'. Seems simple to me. And purchase games we like: Spiderweb, Basilisk Games, Zero-Sum, the guys making Broken whatever, Irontower.

If these companies succeed then more will join them. Simple laws of the market, if a niche is not properly catered for there is the opportunity to make money. The more Indie/True-School developers the better the average Indie game will be, the more diversity there will be and the more chance you'll find something you like: Party-based RPGs and single-player RPGs, tactical combat-oriented RPGs and story-centered RPGs, High Fantasy RPGs and sci-fi/post-apocalyptic/steam-punk RPGs.

People like Twinfalls will have their Daggerfall clones, people like Roqua will have their Wizardry/Goldbox clones and people like Jasede will have their Furcadia VII.

That's possible, whether it becomes a reality depends on us.

Also there'll be friendly competition between Indie/True-School dev's and Jeff Vogel will not be able to recycle the same stuff every year. The bigger the market, the more competition and the higher the quality.

 

[Jasede]

I'll see about bug-free. Apart from the lack of walking animations and the art that looks like it was drawn by my four-year old nephew they actually seem -ok-. Also, the goldbox games WERE improved upon. I replayed the Pool games [Pool of Radiance / Azure Bonds / etc] just a few weeks ago and the interface got nice and better each time, as did the art. If you think I consider Oblivion or FO3 a good development then I guess you're illiterate.

EDIT: Yes, what Sheek said, to a certain degree. I'm not saying Avernum games are bad RPGs. It's just that they should, a, improve somewhat every game [like the Goldbox titles!], but as indies develop, this will hopefully be a natural development.

 

[Elwro]

Yet the same people are publicly admitting using keygens to steal Avernum 4 and handing out torrents to KODP.

I really hope this was an isolated incident. Goddamn, this place should be promoting indie games, and since Vogel always provides big demos, there's no reason to pirate his games "just to check them out".

 

[Jasede]

You guys really have no sense of humour.

 

[dagorkan]

EDIT: Yes, what Sheek said, to a certain degree. I'm not saying Avernum games are bad RPGs. It's just that they should, a, improve somewhat every game [like the Goldbox titles!], but as indies develop, this will hopefully be a natural development.

Yeah except that (if you were serious up-thread) you are one of the ones killing the Indie market. Also all the bitches who are looking forward to Mass Effect, Bioshock, The Witcher... Together you are making sure the Indie market never gets to the point where high-quality True-School RPGs become the norm once again.

 

[Jasede]

Nonsense- The Indie market is responsible for making their games attractive, not the consumer. You hate Mass Effect as much as I do. As I have proven and stated dozens, nay, hundreds of times, I care little about graphics. But when a game looks stale, loveless, with no soul, then it will require much effort from a player to get to the good RPG bits. All I was really trying to express was this: If Vogel would at least make his interface a little bit more nice, add animations to Avernum, then it would already be a much more attractive game. While I still don't like this Avernum [merely because it seems soulless so far], I'm quite positive that I'll willingly shell out money for AoD, and so will others.

My point is: A great game will always be better with good artwork. Good artwork made Doom [also shareware] timeless, same for Daggerfall and many, many other games. I'd even call all rogue-likes nicely done, ASCII is a good style. There's really no reason to make the "stupid graphic-whores" immediately not interested in a game. A lot could be fixed by simply doing what I suggested earlier.

Also, I don't think people like me kill the indie-market. I just have high standards, and a game should always be judged as a whole. Artwork, interface, all this adds or detracts from the experience. This is why I look forward to AoD and Eschalon, as well as quite a few other titles I'd gladly pay for.

 

[Roqua]

Nothing wrong with Independnet games. There is soemthing wrong with SW games. They are crap role-playing games. Just plain old fashion crap. Unless, of course, the demos are NOT the same as the atcual game which would be utter bullshit.

Roqua forgets that I praise VD's game 9even though I atcually haven't tired it) because it sound slike it'll actually be good. Lats i checked, it's an independent game and considering are Fun Fued tm as well.

P.S. I have never played Halo or Oblivion, G3 is ok but I have sisues with it, and NWN is awesome! It's an actual GOOD RPG unlike SW.

TB does not = good RPG.

R00fles!

Spiderweb's TB is crap (but still far better than any RT game). The last avernum made it a little better but it is still a hack n' slash. If geneforge was made by ip or bio with their fancy graphics and rt w/ p everyone would be slobbing all over its knob.

I wasted my money on nwn1 and 2, and both are utter garbage. NWN2 somehow made the easiest game ever created (nwn) look difficult. Even on the highest difficlty nwn2 is so easy as to make retards feel like genius'. I've never played a game where changing gear to upgrades just isn't worth the 5 seconds it would take because you are virtually unbeatable unless you are so stupid that you sit on the tv and watch the couch.

I think it is virtually impossible for someone who likes nwn or any bio or IP game to not like geneforge. Unless of course you are a graphics whore.

The UI isn't fantastic, and my biggest gripe is having to search the ground so I miss a bunch of shit by the time I make it a habbit. The avernum games are a good party-building hack n' slash. If you liked IWD or the goldbox games or any hack n' slash rpg ever made you should like this, unless you are a graphics whore.

No one can articulte why they liked this similar game that is actually worse gameplay-wise to the Avrnums with detail, because you didn't try them and the basis for your not liking is your graphics whoreness. People spout nonsense with the talking points they read in other posts like the put in a good amount of time in the game, when they can't get past the fact they are just graphics whores and not willing to actually play the game.

I can explain why I don't like the games I don't like. Even ones I didn't really play. I played G3 for all of 5 to 10 minutes before I decided it was retarded. Here are the reasons: 1) I like rpgs. 2) I hate twitch games 3) After the stupid battle I looted 7000000 items that I didnt give a shit about 4) No character creation 5) Shit character development 6) I just didn't care enough what anyone had to say enough to talk to them. 7) I could go on all day, but why?

I just wish the grraphics whores would just set their agenda straight. They want SW to have better graphics so they can actually tolerate their games and be able to be included into the discussion about them. Its just getting redundant. Yes, you like graphcis. Whoopity fucking do. I'm not a huge Spiderweb fan but before they put any effort into better graphics, I would liek them to address the biggest problem of all their games, which is the endless hordes of enem,ies hack n' slash narrative.

Would the graphics whores be happy if all the people that play Spiderweb's games went to Bethesda's forum and just cried all day about the graphics being too good? Bethesda will always focus on graphics, spiderweb hopefully never will. Lets just leave graphics out of it, as that can realy only be anyon's problem with his games.

 

[dagorkan]

I'm not saying everybody should buy SW games. I haven't bought a single one because I played the demos and they're not my thing - too generic, hack n slash and I don't like the interface. They're not bad but not worth $25+ to me.

What I'm demanding is that you be honest with yourself. If you want to see more TS RPGs then don't give money to the whores who sold out the RPG genre. And don't steal from the few TS developer's and then cry about there being not enough TS RPGs.

What's so difficult about that?

 

[Roqua]

Nonsense- The Indie market is responsible for making their games attractive, not the consumer. You hate Mass Effect as much as I do. As I have proven and stated dozens, nay, hundreds of times, I care little about graphics. But when a game looks stale, loveless, with no soul, then it will require much effort from a player to get to the good RPG bits. All I was really trying to express was this: If Vogel would at least make his interface a little bit more nice, add animations to Avernum, then it would already be a much more attractive game. While I still don't like this Avernum [merely because it seems soulless so far], I'm quite positive that I'll willingly shell out money for AoD, and so will others.

My point is: A great game will always be better with good artwork. Good artwork made Doom [also shareware] timeless, same for Daggerfall and many, many other games. I'd even call all rogue-likes nicely done, ASCII is a good style. There's really no reason to make the "stupid graphic-whores" immediately not interested in a game. A lot could be fixed by simply doing what I suggested earlier.

Also, I don't think people like me kill the indie-market. I just have high standards, and a game should always be judged as a whole. Artwork, interface, all this adds or detracts from the experience. This is why I look forward to AoD and Eschalon, as well as quite a few other titles I'd gladly pay for.

Wait a second, if you judge a game as a whole, including graphcis and interface, and the made spiderweb's games unplayable drivel, that would mean that has a lot of weight for you. At least what 75% 80%? That makes Mass Effect pretty damn good right off the bat, and something you should be creaming your pants for.

 

[Roqua]

I'm not saying everybody should buy SW games. I haven't bought a single one because I played the demos and they're not my thing - too generic, hack n slash and I don't like the interface. They're not bad but not worth $25+ to me.

What I'm demanding is that you be honest with yourself. If you want to see more TS RPGs then don't give money to the whores who sold out the RPG genre. And don't steal from the few TS developer's and then cry about there being not enough TS RPGs.

What's so difficult about that?

TS?

And whats generic about them besides the superficial that isn't generic about every rpg ever made?

 

[dagorkan]

True-School. I don't like Old-School because good games should be timeless.

 

[Jasede]

I think a game is a melange of what its genre tries to archive, and art (artwork and music, as well as sound effects). Mass Effect has no soul, no depth, and a twitch, actiony gameplay. This I can not agree with it. Artwork is never more important than gameplay, yet still an important aspect; bad art can cloud an otherwise great game and make it a bit difficult to access. This is why I'm currently giving the Avernum 4 demo another chance - maybe I just wasn't patient enough. Really, all I bemoan is just a slight lack of graphic improvements after all this time, as well as the lack of a -single- walking frame animation

 

[dagorkan]

And whats generic about them besides the superficial that isn't generic about every rpg ever made?

The setting just doesn't grab me. The NPCs in the first town were just 'go fetch me this item', 'deliver this message', 'go explore this area', 'go kill these goblins'. I went and cleared out a whole cave of goblins without taking a scratch came back and made barely enough to buy an iron sword.

Actually it wasn't that bad. The Goblin Boss was talking about a plot to conquer the world before I killed him. There was some dude living by the lake told me something about this terrible beast. And the cat-people blocking the bridge, I wanted to go back and see if I could get past them...

It was more fun than the average RPG I've played. I'll give it another try.