Editorial RPG Codex Editorial: Where Journalism Goes to Write Itself

[Grunker]

Grunker
Come on, I've already admitted that you can do a stupid overpowered design in a SP game and that it should be avoided (again, see Septerra Core), it's just that Sawyer as always takes his crusade too far throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Not that I agree with you, but even so you still prove my point by straight up not wanting to ackknowledge that there might exploits in a single-player game. Which there obviously can be. Like, indeed, Morrowind's retarded use-XP.

 

[evdk]

Grunker
Come on, I've already admitted that you can do a stupid overpowered design in a SP game and that it should be avoided (again, see Septerra Core), it's just that Sawyer as always takes his crusade too far throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Not that I agree with you, but even so you still prove my point by straight up not wanting to ackknowledge that there might exploits in a single-player game. Which there obviously can be. Like, indeed, Morrowind's retarded use-XP.

How is that an exploit when it's use as intended.

 

[Infinitron]

Grunker
Come on, I've already admitted that you can do a stupid overpowered design in a SP game and that it should be avoided (again, see Septerra Core), it's just that Sawyer as always takes his crusade too far throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Not that I agree with you, but even so you still prove my point by straight up not wanting to ackknowledge that there might exploits in a single-player game. Which there obviously can be. Like, indeed, Morrowind's retarded use-XP.

How is that an exploit when it's use as intended.

Maybe because it's not actually as intended? Some games are designed with casuals in mind, under the assumption that a casual/average player would not do such things.

 

[evdk]

I actually jump around going anywhere because it helped relieve the tedium of unbearably slow movement. Now that was a demented design decision.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too."
He means the character? I like this idea. Maybe it will help people to see through the horrible trivialization of violence in computer games.

 

[Roguey]

It's a lser pistol.

Both the wiki and Per's guide say it's a plasma pistol and I'm pretty confident I remember it being one the last time I played Fallout (2011).

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Grunker
Come on, I've already admitted that you can do a stupid overpowered design in a SP game and that it should be avoided (again, see Septerra Core), it's just that Sawyer as always takes his crusade too far throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Not that I agree with you, but even so you still prove my point by straight up not wanting to ackknowledge that there might exploits in a single-player game. Which there obviously can be. Like, indeed, Morrowind's retarded use-XP.

How is that an exploit when it's use as intended.

Unless the devs were heavy Skooma users themselves, they obviously intended for the skills to raise "naturally" as you play the game. The fact you can level it to 100 in Balmora just by bunnyhopping everywhere like a lunatic is an exploit of the terribad design leveling system.

The way I see it, a "exploit" doesn't necessarily have to be a super clever trick. You can also jump on top of tables to kill NPCs with impunity, taking advantage of the fact the dumbfuck AI can't tell that they should retreat when faced with an enemy they can't reach.

I actually jump around going anywhere because it helped relieve the tedium of unbearably slow movement. Now that was a demented design decision.

You see, that was intended. More skills = better RPG, right? Enjoy your "Walking" skill!

 

[Cassidy]

There are no unfun obvious exploits in a game. There are only unfun games.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

So Sawyer sperging here too? What about the drama of getting that kotaku guy ?
"We are totally not corrupt JARNALISHTS. PROFESHUNALS with INTEGRITY. We don't accept any criticism about our IMPECCABLE standards...is all."

 

[Zewp]

Yes, fuck you all. I was hoping for some more TOTALLY NOT CORRUPT AND PROFESSIONAL GAMES JOURNALIST DRAMA, but instead I got Sawyer.

 

[Grunker]

There are no unfun obvious exploits in a game. There are only unfun games.

There are no actual arguments in this post. There are only semantics.

 

[Infinitron]

Yes, fuck you all. I was hoping for some more TOTALLY NOT CORRUPT AND PROFESSIONAL GAMES JOURNALIST DRAMA, but instead I got Sawyer.

Reported thread for splitting.

 

[Minttunator]

Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

 

[felipepepe]

Nerf Sawyer. He's unbalanced and unrealistic, no fucking way a real designer would keep appearing every fucking thread like this, it's clearly an exploit.

 

[Athelas]

Jesus fucking Christ, that GIF. If Avellone is the face of god, then Sawyer is what the devil must look like.

 

[hiver]

Never would have I thought of reading that the Codex is too friendly with developers;.

Ive just started reading this thread and havent inspected the article, of which i can pretty much guess the content - even though details of decline morbidly interest me, specifically since that picture of codex... errmm... "delegation" that looked so pathetic on that picture with Fargo.

still, ill use this line from felipepeepepepepepe ... ahem.. to avoid quoting all the relevant posts about this small issue.

The thing about the codex "journalism" and its problem is that it varies between two simplistic extremes.
Codex either shits over specific design companies, designers and games - or seems to suck cock to others.
And thats the real crux of the problem.

There are some articles that dont fall into one of these two extremes but they are of course very rare.
Probably somewhere around 10 or 5%.


As for the line of "we are not really doing journalism but only volunteering so we dont have to do...."


Well you can go fuck yourself in the ass with something spiky and sharp.
I havent heard a more pathetic and disgusting cheap excuse like that in a long while.
Hows that for being direct to the point?

As soon as you start to write about something, as soon as you start typing that review or editorial or whatever - things are expected of you - moron.

Things like actual facts, like actual real presentation of the subject you are talking about and all the details you can come by.
And if you dont provide that - instead vomiting some halfassed opinions about emotionally engaging cheap irrelevant crap - then the fact you are volunteering doesnt make any fucking difference.

Your article will be judged on its own merits, like everything else is.
And you (whoever) and your excuses can go and do that thing i suggested above.



And no, not everything is shit - thats just what idiots and fucking internet retards like to think - because it is Easier, then taking the situation in its entirety.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Never would have I thought of reading that the Codex is too friendly with developers;.

Ive just started reading this thread and havent inspected the article, of which i can pretty much guess the content - even though details of decline morbidly interest me, specifically since that picture of codex... errmm... "delegation" that looked so pathetic on that picture with Fargo.

still, ill use this line from felipepeepepepepepe ... ahem.. to avoid quoting all the relevant posts about this small issue.

The thing about the codex "journalism" and its problem is that it varies between two simplistic extremes.
Codex either shits over specific design companies, designers and games - or seems to suck cock to others.
And thats the real crux of the problem.

There are some articles that dont fall into one of these two extremes but they are of course very rare.
Probably somewhere around 10 or 5%.


As for the line of "we are not really doing journalism but only volunteering so we dont have to do...."


Well you can go fuck yourself in the ass with something spiky and sharp.
I havent heard a more pathetic and disgusting cheap excuse like that in a long while.
Hows that for being direct to the point?

As soon as you start to write about something, as soon as you start typing that review or editorial or whatever - things are expected of you - moron.

Things like actual facts, like actual real presentation of the subject you are talking about and all the details you can come by.
And if you dont provide that - instead vomiting some halfassed opinions about emotionally engaging cheap irrelevant crap - then the fact you are volunteering doesnt make any fucking difference.

Your article will be judged on its own merits, like everything else is.
And you (whoever) and your excuses can go and do that thing i suggested above.



And no, not everything is shit - thats just what idiots and fucking internet retards like to think - because it is Easier, then taking the situation in its entirety.

I will agree with that last part. Almost your entire post is shit, except the last part. Although everything has at least a bit of shit in it.

 

[tuluse]

Roguey
http://spring.me/JESawyer/q/235453118601509661

No, I think I get it pretty clearly: players want realism when it's enjoyable, and they don't want it when it isn't enjoyable. It's not too hard to figure out.

The game you're using as a model of verisimilitude also has regenerating health.

This has nothing to do with verisimilitude. Again, realism is not the same thing as verisimilitude. Every "person" in Battlefield has regenerating health so the game is perfectly consistent with itself.

http://spring.me/JESawyer/q/374603143389921481

From reading your opinions on SomethingAwful and the Obsidian forums, it seems you favor a minimalist approach towards worldcrafting. No "useless" weapons, no mundane conversations, etc. Don't you think this will have a harmful effect on verisimilitude?

I don't think it will harm verisimilitude, no, because none of the source games came anywhere near being simulators of reality.

I think it's my job to design things, not be a content creator for the sake of making the biggest list of "stuff" possible.

Here Sawyer argues that verisimilitude isn't important, that's fine, but it still doesn't make it the same thing as realism.

I have a tangential question for you Roguey. How important do you think it is that the game give meaningful context to the players actions? Because it seems to me, without some level of verisimilitude, the whole thing would be completely abstract and not be very interesting.

 

[Shadenuat]

I'm sure Josh is not against verisimilitude, watch his video where he tells how he went to range and shot guns, assembled guns, disassembled guns ect. to give everything a true to life feel in New Vegas. It's just that when he designs something, he takes a different starting point. Most designers new to the job probably love to start with simulation part first, and build gameplay around that after. It's a natural way of thinking when you want to create a living&breathing world. Just look at the modders. When making an adventure module, they will start crafting huge and detailed locations without even thinking if those would be needed after. Sawyer, I believe, thinks gameplay through first, and then he builds the most necessary parts of world around that. I think it's actually more professional way of creating a game, because you don't make any unneeded content and save your breath, so to speak.
Naturally you can start anywhere when making the game and still reach the same ending (good game), but approach is different. I think that's why he is just not interested in all the realism debates, carry weight, regenerating health, whatever. He has a job to do, to make a good tactical combat in IE successor, so he cuts corners everywhere where he thinks it will save game from "degenerating".

...oh, previews! Right, topic... eh... previews suck because I can tell how the game will play from it's name or a few screenshots. You know what you are getting with GTA XYZ. Video reviews like Totat Biscuit's are useful because they provide video material and you can see the gameplay. For everything else, exists the Codex

 

[hiver]

newfag

thats because it describes the situation on teh codex. therefore nothing else can be expected.


As for the article itself,

It starts alright but then we get to this line:

None of these people are stupid or malevolent, of course, and games journalists certainly aren't lazy by any stretch of the word. Being at Gamescom to fetch content is hard work.

which is utterly laughable, so utterly :patriot: and that one can only be amazed. AMAZED.


you sonny boy, have no idea what hard work really is - and all i can say is that someone should napalm the fuck out of all of you disgusting creatures.

You walk for 10, 12, 14 hours among huge crowds of people, constantly trudging back and forth, juggling ten pages of notes along with maps to help you find your way around the giant conference center, while trying to pen down more notes when you meet someone interesting or play something worthwhile.

As with so many other things in life, people are not to blame here. Systems are.

What a fucking m... jesus fing harold...

Who makes the systems? Who maintains them? who feeds on them?

This particular system is one where the reporters are young and usually fans of what they're reporting on, and those who control what they're reporting on are rich people who know the business and have hired people to make sure the reporting is done "right". All the experience lies with the money, and little of it lie with the reporters. The same goes for the balance of power. In the middle of this are the developers, who just want to make the games they believe in. In their eagerness to realize their creativity, they certainly aren't the people who will break the system.

are you totally ?

Yes, Gamescom is a place where journalism comes to write itself. Where overworked and underpaid journalists come with a massive workload and a short deadline to get told what to write. The mercy of the almost pre-written content flows from the cups of the PR departments into the greedy mouths of the tired journalists. Gamescom is where exclusive parties with good food and free bars are attended by serious business people who look like they've never played a game in their lives. They drink cocktails in the same room as geeky game journalists with long beards and t-shirts, and rarely if ever do the two groups interact. Both are attended to by an assortment of hired help, like the paid cosplayers who feel more out of place than anyone else simply because they, with their geeky outfits but astonishingly good looks, bridge the gap between the awkward geeks, the games journalists and the tidy business people.

Thats a lonesome interesting line in this whole article.

Perhaps I should stop saying 'games journalists', however, for not all writers here are journalists. Many are editors or administrators of fan sites or other such things, and it is often hard to distinguish between these two groups. The fact that both bring back roughly the same kind of content to their readers should chill any critical mind to its core. This is not a place for critical thinking. In fact, the very concept of a games conference seems to go against the notion.

And you only figured out this NOW?

The talk with Alexander is interrupted by the fact that I have to go back to Ubisoft's invitational party so as not to seem rude to my hosts.

heh...heh....heh...

As I have expressed in earlier articles, I had fun at Gamescom. My hosts were considerate and kind, I met tons of interesting people, and I played what I hope will be good games.

Ho...Ho...HO... HOO!!

The relationship between one of the largest venues for new information on games, the journalists who write about that information, and the fans who read it.

the who? the "journalists"?

didnt you say you should stop talking like that few lines ago?
dont want to step on any toes eh? maybe next time you wont be invited to the ubisoft party?

The system itself strangles any chance of elevated discussion.

teh system eh? ahhahahahahaa... yeah, it was teh system that made you have fun and go to ubisoft parties instead of talking to a dev, eh?

Richard Lewis, e-sports journalist, writes here about how the companies at Gamescom barely pay attention to journalism anymore, as if they no longer need games journalists.

what journalists? and why the fuck would they need them and why the fuck would journalists wait for something or someone to need them?

Why should anyone respect someone like me -

i have no idea...

no matter the quality of their content,

your content is crap.

The games journalist cannot write quality articles because he has no venues for solid information, and the people in charge have no interest in providing him with such. The system is to blame, then, the system we have all constructed....

Are you not able to even understand what you are saying?

In a healthy world, business would need to rely on brilliant critics to 'yay' or 'nay' their game, and consumers would need to trust these critics, to know that their integrity is unquestionable.

Unless that happens, neither business nor consumer will have any need of the critic, and the remnants of criticism will dissolve until PR bullshit sieves unfiltered through major sites directly into the eyes and ears of consumers who will have no other choice but niche media if they want critically angled information about their hobby.

it already happened... for fuck sake...

And then, dear sirs and madams, then, we will all be fucked.

pathetic attempt at inventing the "strong" closing line for effect. Horrible. Dont write anything ever again.


/

Now, grunker, you might think im writing this like...intentionally, to hurt your feeling or some such, or because "i have it in for you". But no... none of that was needed. This is just objective reaction to the content of your article - as ive read it.

Your superficial observation is of course true. What is wrong are all your conclusions and obvious blindness to your own susceptibility to the game played, its reasons, causes and effects.
The article lacks juicy details to make up for these horrible blatant misapprehensions and is therefore almost entirely without any value.

and NONE OF IT can be excused by you being a mere volunteer or an "amateur" and not a "professional".

 

[Kane]

It seems I am not the only one who has issues with the way that Gamescom and other conferences handle journalism. Richard Lewis, e-sports journalist, writes here about how the companies at Gamescom barely pay attention to journalism anymore, as if they no longer need games journalists.

That is not suprising. No business needs journalism. Journalism is what makes life hard for business. "Games journalism" was previously nothing more than extensive booklets called gaming magazines (off- and then online). Now that some people understandably are asking to detatch game journalism from the PR desks of the companies, "they" don't need journalism anymore. The problem is that game journalism can not exist independently of the PR desks (and the money transferred there). "Classic" Journalism like newspapers etc. work(ed) because people see value in independent reporting on everyday's sheenanigans. Only very few people see value in independent reporting on games, therefore game journalism isn't independent.

 

[RK47]

"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too."
He means the character? I like this idea. Maybe it will help people to see through the horrible trivialization of violence in computer games.

Should also include raped for 5 minutes before load game pops up bro.
Might wanna teach those female gamers that adventuring alone fighting bandits is a baaaaad idea.

 

[abnaxus]

Should also include raped for 5 minutes before load game pops up bro.
Might wanna teach those female gamers that adventuring alone fighting bandits is a baaaaad idea.

Yes this is why the recent Tomb Raider turned out such a huge disappointment.

 

[RK47]

Yeah I couldn't finish it when I saw the natives kills Lara on sight.
Damn nigga, when do you get such quality white meat on her prime?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

in b4 thread is derailed.