*redacted*

[Baltika9]

Fukkin' A, we did it.

Voting 2, it's about time we established the Varagnian Marine Corps and we'd better put this gold and our newfound reputation to good use. Plus, I am loathe to let the Christians gain a foothold in the New World.

 

[oscar]

2. Shouldn't be too difficult a task for the Swede considering that he's lost bugger all soldiers and his enemies are facing a succession crisis and perhaps even civil war.

The vast resources of the New World are the best long-term hope for this Norse Empire. Perhaps the mercenaries can even be used to help colonise America (we should have no trouble finding recruits when we promise both gold and land). Even a united Scandinavia doesn't really have the population to reliably hold off the rest of Europe for all eternity. 3 is also tempting, as the Baltic BROs would be a great addition.

 

[Zero Credibility]

All right, all right. Voting 2. We probably bought enough time for Sweden now to be finally able to take that trip to Constantinople. Although from the sound of if ("maybe, maybe") it doesn't look like Varagnian Marine Corps are very likely.

 

[Monty]

True, it's probably unlikely. But at least we're going there in style with two ships full of gold, unlike the earlier option where we would have been going with the dregs of our funds from our colonial operation.

I've always voted against the Constantinople voyage as it never seemed to fit in with our plans, but now seems an opportune time for it and even if we just come away with top quality arms and armour, and some mercenaries but fail in the Varangian recruitment it should still be worth it.

 

[Esquilax]

Holy fuck, I am glad it all worked out and we came out of this without experiencing yet another death. I am all for using our newfound wealth as a way to entice the Varangian Guard into our service. That being said, it won't be easy:

A) Travel to Miklagard, also known as Constantinople, which is a rich and massive city where many swords for hire lie who, being Orthodox, would have no qualms about killing Catholic crusaders for some gold or gems, and most importantly, it is the location of the famous Varangian Guard, although at this point, convincing them to fight against the Crusaders would require the approval of the Roman Emperor, which won't be so easy considering the rumors that the Eastern Roman Empire faced some decline in the latest years, and that a new rising threat among the Muslims advances from the east.

From what we know of them, the Varangians are very serious about duty and honor, so they're going to be unlikely to leave the Emperor's service until he allows them to go. Unfortunately, that won't happen until we secure his Empire from the Seljuks coming in from the east, so we're going to have to do some kebab removal before we really get things into gear. There are going to be many battles ahead of us.

The other downside is time: we need to really hit the Crusaders while they're still down, and going for a detour into Byzantium is going to diminish some of the momentum that we've gained.

That being said, there has never been a better time to go to Constantinople than now. Plus it's just insanely fucking cool. 2 it is.

 

[Zero Credibility]

This LP reminds me of that absolutely awesome and totally abandoned CK2 pagan LP. And that makes me sad.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

God this is awesome.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

1 - Now is our chance to punish some Christians and seize New World. Luxury trip to Miklagard comes later.

 

[oscar]

1 - Now is our chance to punish some Christians and seize New World. Luxury trip to Miklagard comes later.

Isn't option 1 just doing some privateering and going Francis Drake on their asses while 2 is actually seizing the New World?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Pretty much.
I chose 2 because it's an all or nothing type option.
Choosing 1 leaves them battered but not beaten, and they can always get reinforcements.
Choosing 2, we have an invading force, recognizable strength, and the willingness of an army to seize the new world by the balls no matter the cost.
Plus, we still have reinforcements.

 

[Stygian Lurker]

2

 

[Rumsfeld]

2 is obviously very tempting. It's like all our wishes rolled into one, and I can't resist voting for it either. But I've been thinking before I voted (although 2 will certainly win it seems) as it just seems too perfect, a nice juicy option that Cassidy has hung out there to seduce us knowing we'll be unable to resist.

There has to be a downside. And in this case I think it stems from the time this journey will take. In this era the journey to Constantinople alone will take a long time. The journey from there to the New World will take ages. And add to that the time spent exploring the unfamiliar Constantinople, finding the best armaments and mercenaries to hire, attempting to recruit the Varangian Guard. If we have to do any favours for the Emperor in return for releasing some of the Varangians this could take years.

Even without that we should be aware that the situation in Scandinavia and Vinland will have changed by the time we return. There is probably a window of opportunity with 1 which will partially close by the time we return, perhaps the succession crises will have been resolved, the war will be over, or Christian Vinland will have been reinforced in anticipation of the raids we plan to launch.

If we succeed in Constantinople we will have more soldiers and arms and should hopefully be able to overcome this, and be better set up for the long term. So I'm also voting 2. But the chance to influence the war in Europe, by cutting off the flow of gold and supplies in option 1, will probably have passed.

 

[oscar]

In the long-run, Scandinavia means bugger all. Gaining the vast resources and land of the New World will prove far more beneficial to Norsedom in the long-run than seizing Denmark or the Baltic.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

UPDATEN!!!

 

[Cassidy]

If we have to do any favours for the Emperor in return for releasing some of the Varangians this could take years.

Not necessarily. The Seljuk Sultanate is too enormous for a man, no matter how legendary, to make a difference in the fight. The Basileus would be more interested in asking Angartýr to put some traitorous vassals in their place instead(and the ERE was always full of treasonous vassals to the Emperor), because as a foreigner, he wouldn't live there for the hitmen to avenge such actions.

Or maybe he could persuade the Emperor about helping him to conquer Georgia in exchange of permission to hire part of the Varangians and for some gold.

*Edit: oh wait, the Turks already beat him to that. Shells in The Night, Shells in the Night never change.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

 

[Cassidy]

*redacted*

 

[oscar]

1 F, C
2 A, E, F
3 A
4 A

For 3 I'm tempted to engage in some kebab removal but I don't want to bum around here for too long. Awesome update though.

 

[Monty]

Excellent update, really enjoyed all the details and we certainly have some interesting choices to debate.

I almost agree with this:

1 F, C
2 A, E, F
3 A
4 A

For 3 I'm tempted to engage in some kebab removal but I don't want to bum around here for too long. Awesome update though.

The only change I'd make is to have the Serbs as our flexible light infantry / archers as they're a bit better at melee so a more balanced option. So:
1 F,B
2 A,E,F
3 A
4 A

I think in our situation we should go for flexible, mobile forces capable of hit and run attacks and ambushes, backed up by a bit of muscle to strike if we see a good opportunity. So no siege engineers, and light infantry/archers rather than heavy infantry. I was going to go for the 'Sons of Attila' as cavalry, but F is just too tempting. My rationale is that we will use them to finish off an enemy or when we find ourselves in a favourable situation. With the horses we have been breeding in our colony hopefully we can put together some light cavalry from there too. But we should pick our battles carefully, we should be controlling supply lines, disrupting reinforcements, taking over the mines and the gold when possible - not directly confronting superior numbers of heavy troops or engaging in sieges.

The boats in 2-A are a great addition which makes us more flexible in terms of transport and allows us to attack ships if necessary, so fits in with the above strategy. E is a good long-term option, it adds to our resources in the colony and I'd rather take the means to make armour than the armour itself. F may be a siege weapon, but if this is developed we could find all sorts of interesting uses for it.

3A and 4A - It's not looking good for the Varangian guard. We have some solid options for troops, the Remnants of Caesarea have a reason to want to get out of here, let's not get bogged down in court intrigues or fighting the religion of peace just to get a few Varangians. As for Hagia Sophia, let's not get diverted again. I'd like us to get back to the New World after all these years here, I think starting a campaign in this part of the world sends us in a very different direction.

 

[Azira]

1 F,B
2 A,E,F
3 A
4 A

I endorse and support Montys plan. +1 for that

 

[Zero Credibility]

1 F, E

Cataphracts are an obvious choice - heavy cavalry that could be had relatively cheaply. But I also want some koursorses as horse archers. Maybe they are not as good at it as Sons of Atila, but they are cheaper and are reasonably capable in melee as well. And with both choices being mounted, we would have a force that is highly mobile - something we should be able to put to good use in the new world. As long as we are not actually assaulting fortifications, cavalry is a better choice then infantry. And with our horse breeding programme already on the way in the new world, we should be able to provide quality replacement horses if needed.

2 A, E, F

More boats is again an obvious choice - we are going across the ocean, and any colonies there are likely to be close to ocean. We can use the extra ships when we get there for good old fashion piracy as well, to cut off the colonies from Europe and stop the flow of gold. More supplies is a good thing - I doubt this campaign is going to end that quickly, and we do have some skilled men over there. And finally, that inventor could be valuable - sure, he could also prove useless, but you never know. And we definitely could use some siege equipment if we do go against fortifications.

3 A

I'm afraid Varagnian Marine Corps are just not in our cards. Maybe we could get some, but it would just take too much time - time that our allies might not have.

4 A

I'm not that anxious for another 60 year dirt-nap just yet. I want to finally see our colony in the new world.

 

[Rumsfeld]

I'm tempted to also go for an all-cavalry approach, but there are also a few disadvantages given our situation so will probably go for a more balanced force in line with Oscar or Monty. Still considering my vote.

We have to transport the soldiers and their horses all the way to the New World. So, not just the space they will require, but all the supplies for the horses on a long journey - a mix of infantry and cavalry will allow a larger force. Cavalry will probably also cost more per head, for the same expenditure we will get a larger force of mixed troops than pure cavalry. Tactically the Serbs or other infantry could give us extra options if we're assaulting a small garrison at the mine or setting up ambushes. Finally, as Monty pointed out we selected the horses and breeder/trainer for the colony so we could produce some mounted archers or spearmen from there to add to our resources, seems a good idea to get a skilled group of infantry instead of putting all our resources into one approach.

The all-cavalry approach could work, obviously, but I think I'd rather have a balanced force with extra options.

 

[Zero Credibility]

True that all cavalry would probably end up a smaller and possibly less balanced force (although dismounted koursorses would make for some quality infantry as well - both as archers and melee). I'm probably prejudiced from my current Mount and Blade game, where my all-cavalry force is just curb stomping mostly infantry armies into the ground. But I also like the idea of a mostly cavalry, very mobile, mongol-like army with horse archers and heavy lancers. Something like that could be very effective at taking and holding a large open territory.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

My strategy is different. Hit the enemy hard, seize gold, taste sweet victory, no messing around.

1
A - Spartans, heavy infantry. Hopefully 300 of them.
D - Sons of Attila, for all our hit and run, archery, tactical needs.

2
B - Armor. No time to spend years making homemade armor.
A - Some boats. Might need them
C - Crossbows for our Spartans in case we do an ambush

3 A, 4 A
No time to waste, get to America.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

1 CF
2 DF
3 A
4 A