Decline PS4 wins the console war against XboxONE, yet it is a hollow victory as Consolesdämmerung is upon us

[IDtenT]

I never said the cloud was magical.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Average Manatee, I believe what IDtenT is saying right now, is that if you have enough computing power, it becomes free.

lol, no. Please, get a clue. Quit drinking marketing kool-aid. You are again invoking magical fairy dust to pretend that two things that are exactly the same have wildly different performance characteristics due to what term the marketing division slaps on it.

Scale bro scale. You refuse to accept that the scale is different.

All I can think of is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs

What's really funny about this is that Mongo does not scale well at all past a single machine. Even more amusingly, it doesn't scale that well for the same reason relational databases don't.

 

[Jashiin]

This is a disaster. MS might actualy salvage some marketshare this way

 

[Average Manatee]

Average Manatee, I believe what IDtenT is saying right now, is that if you have enough computing power, it becomes free.

You seem to be implying that magic happens. Please rephrase this to use the words "cloud" and "scale".

lol, no. Please, get a clue. Quit drinking marketing kool-aid. You are again invoking magical fairy dust to pretend that two things that are exactly the same have wildly different performance characteristics due to what term the marketing division slaps on it.

Scale bro scale. You refuse to accept that the scale is different.

All I can think of is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs

What's really funny about this is that Mongo does not scale well at all past a single machine. Even more amusingly, it doesn't scale that well for the same reason relational databases don't.

Can't say I've done anything with it, but my impression was that it works fine as long as you have the right workload for it. At least it isn't pure marketing bluff like "cloud" is.

 

[abija]

IF the servers are hosted on the cloud, IDtenT is right, the servers won't be retired until M$ drops support for XBone, which is a lot longer than the average support you'll get from EA for example.
Even though you say servers are cheap very few companies can justify building a multi purpose server farm for their game catalog while M$ already has one.

But I haven't seen any confirmation for that IF and I'll be extremely fucking surprised if M$ actually offers dedicated servers for free. What they've shown so far it was just the typical cloud bullshit (lobbies, chat, matchmaking, online profiles etc). I doubt M$ would actually let devs offload serious processing to the cloud for free.

 

[tuluse]

ITT: we learn that the majority of codexers don't know about virtual machines.

 

[DragoFireheart]

IDtenT is becoming entirely incomprehensible to me. Can anyone else decipher the point he is trying to make?

Sure.

Did that help?

 

[SuicideBunny]

Afaik, none of those are hosted on a cloud

So now we've reached the "no true scotsman" point of the debate.

I've seen the "No true Scotsman" fallacy misapplied in many different ways, but that there's one of the worst.

No?

IDtenT says that servers will never go offline because magical cloud. When shown a large list of servers that have gone offline he then retorts that they weren't on the cloud.

Because they weren't. It's a fucking strawman for you to compare dedicated servers to the cloud.

but the cloud runs on cloud-dedicated servers.

 

[DragoFireheart]

but the cloud runs on cloud-dedicated servers.

Way too many buzzwords.

I hate the cloud and the asshole who coined the term is a douche.

 

[Volrath]

ITT IDtenT reached his breaking point.

 

[dunno lah]

ITT IDtenT lived up to his name.

 

[Azalin]

In before CliffyB twittering like a twat.

A few years too late for that Morgoth don't you think?

http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905

Retards gonns retard

Cliff Bleszinski ?@therealcliffyb
More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games. "@JosephHamm: So what is going to happen to all these publishers now Cliff"

Cliff Bleszinski ?@therealcliffyb
Brace yourselves. More tacked on multiplayer and DLC are coming.

Cliff Bleszinski ?@therealcliffyb
You're also about to see available microtransactions skyrocket. HATS FOR EVERYONE.

Cliff Bleszinski ?@therealcliffyb
I want *developers* who worked their asses off to see money on every copy of their game that is sold instead of Gamestop. Fuck me, right?

Cliff Bleszinski Cliff Bleszinski ‏@therealcliffyb
I find it funny how people are saying that I "lost" when I don't have a job or an allegiance now.

Cliff Bleszinski ‏@therealcliffyb
What I do have is 20 years of experience making games and seeing how the sausage is made.

THANKS INTERNET

It's so nice seeing Clifford ,THANKS INTERNET

 

[J_C]

It's fucking hilarious to read this, because most developers don't get royalties after sold units. Traded in AAA games only hurt the publishers, the developers are screwed by the publishers in any case. I wonder why doesn't RetartB complain about the publishers fucking the devs, and reaping the profit from sold units.

 

[Turjan]

The fact of the matter is that servers are relatively cheap for any major company. Bandwidth is cheap too. What isn't is the flat cost of maintainence, support, and the opportunity costs of lost products elsewhere (from people busy playing old games instead of buying new ones). None of those go away no matter how much magic fairy dust you wave around. They spell doom for any continued online support for old Xbox games.

I think the bolded part is the most important. I think companies like cloud applications so much as they can just switch the functionality off and force the user to buy something new. If they hammer it down long enough that you don't own the games you bought but just got a temporary license, this may even fly. Scrap that, it flies even now with the majority of consumers.

 

[Average Manatee]

Certainly. There's a reason sports games make so much fucking money. It's because rosters change every year and no one wants to be stuck playing with the roster of last year. Publishers' wet dream is to be able to enforce obsolescence with everything else.

 

[IDtenT]

I'll agree on the basis of opportunity costs it might make sense, but I don't see how MS would want to inflict that PR damage on themselves (the irony of this statement is clear given the last month). The maintenance is a non-issue, because the cloud already needs to still exist, and support being shut off isn't unusual for software.

 

[Kirtai]

What isn't is the flat cost of maintainence, support, and the opportunity costs of lost products elsewhere (from people busy playing old games instead of buying new ones).

This, I think, is the key point. All these things are ongoing costs regardless of how the server is provisioned. When (not if) the cost becomes too high, they'll be axed.

The maintenance is a non-issue, because the cloud already needs to still exist, and support being shut off isn't unusual for software.

Maintenance of the cloud infrastructure is not the same as maintenance of the servers running on it.

 

[grdja]

It's fucking hilarious to read this, because most developers don't get royalties after sold units. Traded in AAA games only hurt the publishers, the developers are screwed by the publishers in any case. I wonder why doesn't RetartB complain about the publishers fucking the devs, and reaping the profit from sold units.

Well one logical answer would be that he has significant money in stocks of major publishers so he is actually crusading for his own personal profits. Or is just getting tons of money from "used games are new piracy, no scratch that, they are worse than Hitler" lobby.

 

[HanoverF]

Cliff Bleszinski ?@therealcliffyb
More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games. "@JosephHamm: So what is going to happen to all these publishers now Cliff"

Oh wait, why is this bad exactly?

That's pretty bad. Of course it's a bullshit argument. Steam has been around and "beloved" for how long now and how many PC exclusives are there these days? Also Microsoft had digital only no trade no resell games on XBox 360, and each month a handful of three year old titles would have their price cut, but where there ever massive steam type sales? No. BUT XBONE WOULD CHANGE EVERYTHINK!!!1 Yeah, not so much.

Also Here's your glorious cloud gaming, shitheels:

 

[Rahdulan]

The fact of the matter is that servers are relatively cheap for any major company. Bandwidth is cheap too. What isn't is the flat cost of maintainence, support, and the opportunity costs of lost products elsewhere (from people busy playing old games instead of buying new ones). None of those go away no matter how much magic fairy dust you wave around. They spell doom for any continued online support for old Xbox games.

I think the bolded part is the most important. I think companies like cloud applications so much as they can just switch the functionality off and force the user to buy something new. If they hammer it down long enough that you don't own the games you bought but just got a temporary license, this may even fly. Scrap that, it flies even now with the majority of consumers.

This is double the disaster in hands of someone like EA who is already notorious for shutting down game servers when sequels get released and being huge pussyfoots with their business directions. Are those really the kind of companies that you want having complete control over your gaming experience when they can pull off such drastic moves whenever their Excel spreadsheet says they're in the red?

 

[Jarpie]

Cliff Bleszinski ?@therealcliffyb
More studios WILL close and you'll see more PC and mobile games. "@JosephHamm: So what is going to happen to all these publishers now Cliff"

Oh wait, why is this bad exactly?

That's pretty bad. Of course it's a bullshit argument. Steam has been around and "beloved" for how long now and how many PC exclusives are there these days? Also Microsoft had digital only no trade no resell games on XBox 360, and each month a handful of three year old titles would have their price cut, but where there ever massive steam type sales? No. BUT XBONE WOULD CHANGE EVERYTHINK!!!1 Yeah, not so much.

Also Here's your glorious cloud gaming, shitheels:

Mobile- and tablet gaming bubble will burst sooner or later like social gaming did, only matter of time. Why you ask? The market saturation and big number of casual players who will buy couple games and then give up when the novelty runs out.

 

[DalekFlay]

If my wife having a ton of phone games is the price to pay for the "AAA" console industry crashing and burning, I'm okay with that.

 

[Xi]

Being someone who touted the coming of cloud gaming (back in the day), and apparently an Onlive marketing worm, I can say with abslute certainty that cloud is a marketing word. A server is a server, end of story. There's no difference, other than (maybe) the type of dedicated hardware inside.

Edit:

If cloud based gaming (Onlive model) was used today, the internet would cease to function (there's literally not enough bandwidth (at least in the US)). With Netflix currently sucking down around 30% of available bandwidth on any given day, can you imagine what would happen if a service that sucks down equally (or probably more) bandwidth came into the room? That's a lot of fat people with no couches to sit on (or a skinny banana chair to share).

Just saying. Cloud gaming is a real toss up. It's coming (no doubt) but like many others have said, we just aren't quite there (infrastructure wise) for it to have real impact today.

Edit 2:

Plus, can you imagine how retarded AI will seem when it has extreme latency in-between each decision to duck/cover, fire gun, or retreat? If you thought that AI was retarded now, wait till you see what an advanced thinking robot (cloud) can come up with! Oh wait, you already raped it into submission and are now shooting at it's friends (which are now starting to process their AI on the cloud).

"One moment please while your enemies Intelligence loads" (They are extremely smart turtles - beware!)

 

[IDtenT]

Plus, can you imagine how retarded AI will seem when it has extreme latency in-between each decision to duck/cover, fire gun, or retreat? If you thought that AI was retarded now, wait till you see what an advanced thinking robot (cloud) can come up with! Oh wait, you already raped it into submission and are now shooting at it's friends (which are now starting to process their AI on the cloud).

"One moment please while your enemies Intelligence loads" (They are extremely smart turtles - beware!)

Uh. When you play CoD online, those people you play against suffer from the exact same latency (well, double).

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I'm eagerly waiting for 10 million people to try and play the newest flavor of Call of Duty singleplayer on launch day, and for Azure to run the AI for all the enemies therein at acceptable latency. Shit would be so hilarious.