Please help me understand something about Neverwinter Nights

[Moribund]

Liking things purely for ideological reasons is pretty typical these days, bt he was the first and most adamant so that counts for something I guess.

 

[vorvek]

That is a p. dumb reason. Specially since to play with other people you're much better off with the actual thing.

Well, with a NWN server you can play pretty much whenever you want, with (easily) a hundred different players. I do prefer to play actual PnP, but I know that no matter what time it is, I can log to one of these Persistent Worlds and find a group to do some dungeon crawling or whatever, and that's something I cannot do with my usual PnP group (which I found through NWN, as there aren't that many places in the town I live in to find roleplayers).

Now, DMing for small groups in NWN, as some sort of replacement for an actual game is just "meh". It's still the best approach if you'd like that kind of thing without using "tools" like Fantasy Grounds or Roll20.

 

[waywardOne]

Honestly. The only excuse Bioware can have for NWN is that the entire campaign, including expansions, were demos for the toolset. I remember seeing the little interjection triggers and tracking info after getting SoU; they were utilized so haphazardly, I sincerely believe they put almost zero thought into plot, character development, or even gameplay.

 

[Volourn]

"NWN easily has the worst single player store bioware has ever served."

No. Fuck no. hell to the fuck no. WTF kinda drugs are you on.


"I was referring to NWN being "> all". Would you like to explain to us all why Neverwinter Nights is BioWare's best game ever?"

Because it is their best game. It's not even debateable... well, it shouldn't be but this is the Codex and here everything is debateable so fuck yeah.

NWN > ALL

 

[Lilura]

NWN > ALL

P.S. Anyone who thinks BG1 is better than BG2 in ANY way is fukkin' stupid.

This is the second time you've come off as... uncouth... which is a bit amusing, but I can see it getting old, fast. Whether you prefer BG1 or BG2 is a matter of taste, though I'm sure you'll say BG2 is objectively better in every way , and not even back it up, just like the other guy!
One thing I liked about BG1 was how you could dual-class a Necro (high WIS prereq) into a cleric. In BG2 they got rid of that PnP rule, though, that says Specialists can dual.

 

[Volourn]

"This is the second time you've come off as."

Second time? Newb.

 

[Lilura]

"Newfag" to the Codex, yeah. Thanks for the welcome...

 

[Average Manatee]

BG1 was interesting for the fact that it had a low-level D&D campaign which didn't need everything to be epic. The good parts stopped there. BG2 wipes the floor with BG1 in every other way

"Newfag" to the Codex, yeah. Thanks for the welcome...

You'll quickly learn how to deal with Volourn.

Also go fuck yourself. Welcome BTW. Trannies in GD.

"NWN easily has the worst single player store bioware has ever served."

No. Fuck no. hell to the fuck no. WTF kinda drugs are you on.

Which is their worst then? Persuade us with your uncannily critical eye to detail and comparative prose.

 

[RK47]

Volourn is just being Volourn. The schtick is getting old. Just put him in ignore list instead of expecting a coherent reply.

 

[Average Manatee]

1. The roundabout. Literally a location where the end goal is clearly visible, but to reach it requires the player to follow a huge diversion, usually spanning almost the entire level's breadth, just to reach it. Bonus points if you aren't just using a big path that goes around in a redundant loop, but also winds and coils excessively to maximize use of floor space.
2. The maze. Lots of winding, twisting corridors are routes, most of them dead ends, from where there is no clear vantage point to ascertain exactly where to go, or where any one location exists relative to any other location. Usually mitigated by top-down games, as the camera has a better perspective, but if limited view distance is still a concern it can be just as effective.
3. The path. An overlong, straight and completely uninteresting level punctuated and given meaning by forced encounters and scenarios which cannot be avoided, bypassed, or even significantly delayed. Usually extremely transparent because the only reason the path exists, and is as long as it is, is to delay the player from reaching the end point and completing an objective.
4. The copy-paste. This literally involves game designers using the same level portions or layout again, and again, and again, in order to create two or three times the amount of content for almost no effort whatsoever. This can apply to sections in an individual level, or multiple levels that share the same layouts.

Neverwinter Nights, unfortunately, frequently uses all three of these

Proof-read your opus before releasing it to the adoring masses, sea!

With regards to narrative time-wasting, I think the most consistently irritating way of padding out the game is the unnecessary shifting of the goalposts to delay the end of very basic locate-this-plot-coupon story arcs (and as a result force in more compulsory, linear content), which Obsidian in particular used to make a bad habit of (I'm thinking vast swathes of NWN2/Nar Shaddaa). Player must complete three tasks to reach the Macguffin -> Player does so, reaches MacGuffin -> oh, no, that treacherous NPC has stolen the MacGuffin before the PC could use it! -> PC tries to go after the MacGuffin again but then the NPC with the map to the MacGuffin gets kidnapped by some other people and needs rescuing -> A local crime boss will help the PC find out where the MacGuffin's been taken, but only if they complete three tasks...

It's storytelling-as-treading-water, and the game ends up with a simple plot dragged out and overstretched to the extent that you start to resent it.

Then the one game that seemed to specifically try to avoid this, NWN2:SoZ, gets bashed for not having every sidequest lead to epic dungeons. Sadly players seem to expect every level 4 bandit boss that robbed the PC's starting villiage to have hundreds of minions in an underground fortress rather than simply a hole in a mountain with room for a dozen people and their loot.

 

[Volourn]

"Which is their worst then? Persuade us with your uncannily critical eye to detail and comparative prose."

SOU, KOTOR, ME3, MDK2, SS, and BG are all worse SP campaigns.


"Volourn is just being Volourn. The schtick is getting old. Just put him in ignore list instead of expecting a coherent reply."

A Codexer crying. Not a surprise.

 

[RK47]

No ur wrong Volly.
I can't agree with you.

 

[Volourn]

One sec. let me see if I have my give a shit shoes on. Nope. i don't. Sorry. I just don't give a shit if you agree.

 

[RK47]

Moving away from party system was a mistake

 

[Excommunicator]

Consider working on your verbosity to insight ratio sea.

 

[RK47]

it makes nwn very boring
i play fightan.
i fightan all the time

i get bored
wanna start new game

make cleric
clerk all the time

mage
magin' all the time

the companion is not gud enuff replacement for 5 other party members u can take from BG series. So much variety lost.

 

[Mrowak]

it makes nwn very boring
i play fightan.
i fightan all the time

i get bored
wanna start new game

make cleric
clerk all the time

mage
magin' all the time

the companion is not gud enuff replacement for 5 other party members u can take from BG series. So much variety lost.

Well, NWN 1 played like poor man's diablo 1. They made a generic hack&slash out of it while taking out player's input. If you played a fighter it essentailly turned into dice-rolling simulator with RPG overlay on the top of it.

 

[Volourn]

No.

 

[aris]

except for the fact that it hasa toolset with a very active community and that you can take on a (limited) role as a DM, what's so good about NWN?

 

[Captain Shrek]

except for the fact that it hasa toolset with a very active community and that you can take on a (limited) role as a DM, what's so good about NWN?

Indeed. What is good about Diablo either which doesn't even have any of that.

 

[Lilura]

BG are all worse SP campaigns.

So BG1 has a worse SP campaign than NWN1.

Well, NWN 1 played like poor man's diablo 1. They made a generic hack&slash out of it while taking out player's input. If you played a fighter it essentailly turned into dice-rolling simulator with RPG overlay on the top of it.

Yeah, for a ruleset graced with skill checks and feats, NWN1 is sorely lacking in reactive dialogue, different ways to do quests and just general role-playing.

Most of it consists of FedEx with boring trashmob combat in your way, like getting the components for the plague cure, what a snoozefest that was.
You also only had access to one retarded henchman, who never acted correctly in combat. Protip, just choose the madmonk.
someone before mentioned "My First D&D Campaign", well this is definitely it, the default difficulty is such that Fireballs are party-friendly, and I recall Beholders and Illithids being mere trashmobs in HotU, and at one epic stage I was sure my Weapon Master could great cleave a horde of red dragons, if only I was given the chance...

 

[aris]

except for the fact that it hasa toolset with a very active community and that you can take on a (limited) role as a DM, what's so good about NWN?

Indeed. What is good about Diablo either which doesn't even have any of that.

Well, even though I said it had an active community, I didn't mean a good one. I remember playing a series of modules a long time ago, which everyone said was the second coming of jesus and was by far the highest rated on the nexus, which was so forgettable, so bland, that I can't even remember the name of it. The only thing I vaguely remember, is that at one time, I think towards the end of the series, you had the head of a dragon, or a lizard, I can't remember which. I truly can't remember playing any story module on NWN that wasn't ten times worse than anything you see in other bioware games.

 

[Captain Shrek]

except for the fact that it hasa toolset with a very active community and that you can take on a (limited) role as a DM, what's so good about NWN?

Indeed. What is good about Diablo either which doesn't even have any of that.

Well, even though I said it had an active community, I didn't mean a good one. I remember playing a series of modules a long time ago, which everyone said was the second coming of jesus and was by far the highest rated on the nexus, which was so forgettable, so bland, that I can't even remember the name of it. The only thing I vaguely remember, is that at one time, I think towards the end of the series, you had the head of a dragon, or a lizard, I can't remember which. I truly can't remember playing any story module on NWN that wasn't ten times worse than anything you saw in bioware games.

I am hardly defending NWN OR Bioware now, am I?

 

[Volourn]

"Yeah, for a ruleset graced with skill checks and feats, NWN1 is sorely lacking in reactive dialogue, different ways to do quests and just general role-playing.

Most of it consists of FedEx with boring trashmob combat in your way, like getting the components for the plague cure, what a snoozefest that was.
You also only had access to one retarded henchman, who never acted correctly in combat. Protip, just choose the madmonk.
someone before mentioned "My First D&D Campaign", well this is definitely it, the default difficulty is such that Fireballs are party-friendly, and I recall Beholders and Illithids being mere trashmobs in HotU, and at one epic stage I was sure my Weapon Master could great cleave a horde of red dragons, if only I was given the chance..."

So much shit you truly are a Codexer.


"So BG1 has a worse SP campaign than NWN1."

You must love xfarts and farming empty maps and playing boring fighters with no options and no role-playing whatsoever. If so, BG1 is for you.

R00fles!

 

[Eyeball]

NWN1 was Diablo with D&D mechanics. It was fine for what it was and I replayed it once. The lootwhoring was good, there was some decent variety in enemies and environments and the interface was perfectly functional, except in the case of controlling your dumb-as-rocks henchman. The only thing it did really poorly was to pretend to be more of an RPG than it was actually designed to be, which disappointed a lot of people who wanted Baldurs Gate 3.

It's kind of like the opposite of Vampire The Masquerade: Requiem, which had terribad gameplay but excellent storytelling.