Please help me understand something about Neverwinter Nights

[Captain Shrek]

THERE IS NOTHING, let me repeat, NOTHING, WRONG WITH SAVE-RELOAD.

 

[Moribund]

Oh my dear jesus, this thread.



First it started off with complaints saying "you know the story of Neverwinter Nights is rather unrealistic!"

Then we got to "BG 1 is Certainly better than BG 2!"

and now we have gotten to "The combat in NWN is too hard and teh computer CHETS!"

How do I get my articles published in gamasutra? I assumed it was hopeless but it must not be so hard really.

 

[sea]

So I'm in the spider caves below the beholder lair and I have constant spell failure forced on me, which seems to render potions, spells, wands, etc. unusable, and possibly enchantments on items non-functional. And then of course there are spiders and web traps everywhere. The spiders die instantly but are scripted to always cast entangle/web on me, thus meaning every enemy encounter = 30 more seconds of pointless waiting. It's like the original campaign all over again!

Also, for some reason, this magical spell failure, which my companions pointed out to me... doesn't affect them at all, and they can still use all their spells, powers, bard songs, etc. Oh, and enemies can use spells as well. And the magic door relying on ancient magically-powered mechanisms still functions, and it's possible to do a spellcraft check on the mechanism. I guess I'll find out if this discrepancy is explained at all? I'm guessing... not.

(okay so technically the spiders' web ability is not magic, but whatever)

How do I get my articles published in gamasutra? I assumed it was hopeless but it must not be so hard really.

They aren't published. I don't get paid. They're blogs. Users write them and they choose to feature what they consider to be the "best." So yeah, you can feel validated in your knowledge that I am a fucking worthless, senseless piece of shit waste of oxygen who would be better off divided into a million particles used for animal feed.

 

[Lilura]

sea, that's the delectable area I mentioned earlier. I knew you'd react to it. The other problem is that you might be encumbered due to your STR items being null and voided. This could mean half an hour of inventory management or you move at a snail's pace inbetween getting webbed.

 

[sea]

sea, that's the delectable area I mentioned earlier. I knew you'd react to it. The other problem is that you might be encumbered due to your STR items being null and voided. This could mean half an hour of inventory management or you move at a snail's pace inbetween getting webbed.

Bingo.

 

[Volourn]

The WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA continues~!!!~

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

its really a non-thinking plot; the Plague is irrelevant...at the end of the day it's all about Ancient Space Lizards trapped in another dimension inside a rock under the city.

It seems that a good plot is in another castle

Oh snap! I thought you were making some odd reference to the horrible (but guilty nostalgic pleasure for me) Super Mario Bros. The Movie. I just checked wikipedia about neverwinter nights and was bamboozled about the similarity of that one summarized plot aspect- Gasp!

 

[abnaxus]

So I'm in the spider caves below the beholder lair and I have constant spell failure forced on me, which seems to render potions, spells, wands, etc. unusable, and possibly enchantments on items non-functional. And then of course there are spiders and web traps everywhere. The spiders die instantly but are scripted to always cast entangle/web on me, thus meaning every enemy encounter = 30 more seconds of pointless waiting. It's like the original campaign all over again!

Also, for some reason, this magical spell failure, which my companions pointed out to me... doesn't affect them at all, and they can still use all their spells, powers, bard songs, etc. Oh, and enemies can use spells as well. And the magic door relying on ancient magically-powered mechanisms still functions, and it's possible to do a spellcraft check on the mechanism. I guess I'll find out if this discrepancy is explained at all? I'm guessing... not.

How were you able to pass the lore check to enter the caves with your fighter in the first place?

High level arcane casters who almost never fail will save have no issues in the caves.

 

[RK47]

THERE IS SOMETHING let me repeat, SOMETHING, WRONG WITH SOLO D&D.

 

[asongforsimeon]

So the setup of Neverwinter Nights is that there is a horrible plague in the city which is killing of tons of people. Chaos reigns and only you can collect the ingredients for a plague cure!

Except uh. Well.

This is D&D, so what happened to Cure Disease spells and potions? Pretty sure those still exist in D&D canon, yet of course I haven't actually found a single one exploring the game world, so is there a shortage or something? They never ever touch on this at all.

But more to the point, this is D&D, and when you die, you can just get resurrected at the nearest temple to whatever random god. So wouldn't like, the first thing to do when a plague hits is to round up everyone, put them in plague camps and then just have the priests there cast Cure Disease and Resurrect whenever someone bites the dust? Sure, some people would slip through the cracks, but if you were proactive enough you could keep the plague at bay long enough to avoid too much death while a real cure is found.

Actually, come to think of it, plague camps are unnecessary. Whenever your follower dies, he/she gets automatically teleported to the Temple of Tyr, and is restored with full health and no ill effects. This happens no matter how far away from the Temple of Tyr you are (even deep underground), and even if you aren't a mage or cleric with the Resurrect spell.

There's the possibility that this is the result of the Stone of Recall here. But even if that is the case, it doesn't explain why they don't just give those to everyone else in the world (or at least people of import). Or why the villains themselves don't use them. But even if the camps are needed, that still doesn't explain why they don't set them up to begin with and just quarantine people away in the No-Man's Land and Beggar's Nest.

So do they ever offer an explanation? Or did I put more thought into the story for Neverwinter Nights than the developers ever did?

even deekin the kobold makes fun of this: "if priests can resurrect people, why anybody dies?". The official reason is that the Wailing Death is stronger than clerical spells.

 

[sea]

How were you able to pass the lore check to enter the caves with your fighter in the first place?

High level arcane casters who almost never fail will save have no issues in the caves.

I didn't, even though my fighter has 20 lore (yeah, not enough skills worth getting, lore at least saves a few gold on identifying items). You don't have to go through the door, it's just a magically-powered shortcut to the obelisk that prevents magic from working in the area. Which, as I said, makes... no sense.

 

[DraQ]

THERE IS NOTHING, let me repeat, NOTHING, WRONG WITH SAVE-RELOAD.

Go away, faggot.

 

[sea]

Go away, faggot.

Save-reload as a cheap strategy meant to circumvent fair challenge through brute force is silly. Save-load because the design of the game's challenges necessitates it to succeed is another story. For instance "you made a bad character without any way of knowing it at the time, and have to load a save 30 hours ago" does not really constitute fair difficulty in my mind, nor does a set of mandatory challenges in the game that are extremely easy for one character type but impossible for another type, even though both are presented as equally valid.

 

[DraQ]

Go away, faggot.

Save-reload as a cheap strategy meant to circumvent fair challenge through brute force is silly. Save-load because the design of the game's challenges necessitates it to succeed is another story. For instance "you made a bad character without any way of knowing it at the time, and have to load a save 30 hours ago" does not really constitute fair difficulty in my mind, nor does a set of mandatory challenges in the game that are extremely easy for one character type but impossible for another type, even though both are presented as equally valid.

So tl;dr is that one is silly, the other criminally stupid?

I agree.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Go away, faggot.

Save-reload as a cheap strategy meant to circumvent fair challenge through brute force is silly. Save-load because the design of the game's challenges necessitates it to succeed is another story. For instance "you made a bad character without any way of knowing it at the time, and have to load a save 30 hours ago" does not really constitute fair difficulty in my mind, nor does a set of mandatory challenges in the game that are extremely easy for one character type but impossible for another type, even though both are presented as equally valid.

I would agree with this generally, but IIRC the Chapter 2 quests of HotU were soft mandatory - you had to do some (like 3?) but not all of them to trigger the end of the chapter. In that case, I don't mind if one of them is impossible for a certain character type as long as enough are doable to progress. I was a fighter/thief when I played it and I think the end of the chapter was triggered before I even tried the beholder caves.

 

[DraQ]

Go away, faggot.

Save-reload as a cheap strategy meant to circumvent fair challenge through brute force is silly. Save-load because the design of the game's challenges necessitates it to succeed is another story. For instance "you made a bad character without any way of knowing it at the time, and have to load a save 30 hours ago" does not really constitute fair difficulty in my mind, nor does a set of mandatory challenges in the game that are extremely easy for one character type but impossible for another type, even though both are presented as equally valid.

How about "You are fucking dumb to play complicated games and best restrict yourself to Dragon age?" Oh wait. Too difficult for most people!

How about you go away, faggot?

 

[Volourn]

"High level arcane casters who almost never fail will save have no issues in the caves."

Bukllshit. How does will help? They don't save you against the spiders poisonm and younhave no spells or magic items either. Don't be full of shit. And, companions - last I played - can't use magic either. Until you turn it 'back on'.

So much whiny lying bullshit in thisn fukkin' thread.

 

[sea]

How about "You are fucking dumb to play complicated games and best restrict yourself to Dragon age?" Oh wait. Too difficult for most people!

To bring things further off topic:

I wasn't referring to too much specifically in NWN, although there are a few situations here and there which are mandatory and extremely difficult for certain builds.

Example: trying to make a skill-oriented thief character and then getting fucking pummeled into dust. You might say "player is dumb for making a skill-oriented thief in a hack and slash" and you would be partially correct. But how much blame can be laid on the player and how much on the developer? If the game presents an option then some players are going to take it, and within a reasonable measure it should be valid - no, I'm not saying "dumb down the game until it's completely easy for everyone/requires no thought/etc.", that's a straw man/extremist take on it.

D&D is, while limited compared to some pen and paper games, still ultimately pretty open as a system, but mostly because it's possible for a DM to interpret what the player does and build appropriate content and challenges around that. Computer games do not have such a benefit, yet if you are going to include an extensive character system which allows you to make big mistakes the game design did not account for, does that speak more to the "stupidity" of the player or the lack of foresight/resources of the developer?

Another example: Arcanum. Amazingly open and great character system, yet very badly balanced and as Chris Avellone demonstrated, it's possible to get your ass kicked early on because you have the wrong expectations about how a game should play (I don't think anyone told him it started out as a wolf-killing simulator). In his case, save-load brute force became necessary in his mind because the game design did not support a play-style that it presented as a possibility. Here it's not (entirely) Chris' fault for being "stupid" and not having magic foresight of what the game would play like or what would be useful to him early on, or knowing the intricacies of the game before starting it.

 

[racofer]

In here I give a fuck about Codex complaining about save/reloading in my single player games.

 

[DraQ]

In here I give a fuck about Codex complaining about save/reloading in my single player games.

You are no longer a thread incliner.

 

[racofer]

In here I give a fuck about Codex complaining about save/reloading in my single player games.

You are no longer a thread incliner.

Spoiler

 

[RK47]

we r allowed to post beastiality in non-GD threads now?

 

[marooned]

Only in Bioware ones.

 

[DraQ]

It's not bestiality if both parties are equally sapient.