Playing KotOR for the first time, does it get better?

[Serious_Business]

What was the point in deconstructing star wars in a game series whose only saving grace was being star wars?

The "point" was to piss you off

although falling back on causality is the mark of the plebos of course

 

[Relay]

Et tu, Sceptic?

For someone who has played range of games over a longer period than I have been alive, I can't believe you'd defend KotOR 2. A game with a terrible, sluggish System Shock wannabe opening. A game with pathologically depressed characters who cry on your shoulders all the time (even Mandalore Canderous Ordo!). A faux-open-ended game with funnel points in every area, such that most or all incomplete side quests shut down in each area once you've done the main quest in that area? A game with terrible pathing problems with AI running into turrets to kill itself? A game with a pointless Influence System, which rewards with more shoulder-crying from depressed NPCs and a lightsaber in their hand? All in the name of BioWare-Bad-Obsidian-Good?

Et tu, Sceptic?

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Darth Publisher : "Release the Sith Lords on the Universe!"

Lt. Obsidian : "It's not ready Darth, please, have mercy!"

Darth Publisher : "Muahahahaha... choke on the unfinished lulz goodness fools!.. muahhaha......"

 

[Grunker]

: x

 

[racofer]

Darth Publisher : "Release the Sith Lords on the Universe!"

Lt. Obsidian : "It's not ready Darth, please, have mercy!"

Darth Publisher : "Muahahahaha... choke on the unfinished lulz goodness fools!.. muahhaha......"

It's funny how people still perpetuate this bullshit that evil publishers force obshitian to release their games in a half-assed state. It might have worked at first, but now that Lucas Arts, ATARI, SEGA, Bethesda and the rest of the universe, all push obshitian to release games head of time, I thought people would have realized this excuse doesn't work anymore.

 

[Grunker]

I haven't played a single Obsidian game that was buggy - and only KotOR2 was unfinished.

I have played Obsidian games that were shit though (NWN2, Alpha Protocol) so you can stop short of calling me a fanboy.

 

[Renegen]

Darth Publisher : "Release the Sith Lords on the Universe!"

Lt. Obsidian : "It's not ready Darth, please, have mercy!"

Darth Publisher : "Muahahahaha... choke on the unfinished lulz goodness fools!.. muahhaha......"

It's funny how people still perpetuate this bullshit that evil publishers force obshitian to release their games in a half-assed state. It might have worked at first, but now that Lucas Arts, ATARI, SEGA, Bethesda and the rest of the universe, all push obshitian to release games head of time, I thought people would have realized this excuse doesn't work anymore.

So please tell us what was Obsidian's ultimate goal. They looked at it and said "yep, it's a masterpiece, can't wait for everyone to experience that ending". We're talking about a full team of grown adults that have more video game industry talent on the pimple of their ass than you will in your lifetime.

Oh thats right, the ending was rushed and missing but you just wanted to sound counter-trend.

 

[Grunker]

See guys, for reference ^that's a fanboy.

 

[racofer]

Darth Publisher : "Release the Sith Lords on the Universe!"

Lt. Obsidian : "It's not ready Darth, please, have mercy!"

Darth Publisher : "Muahahahaha... choke on the unfinished lulz goodness fools!.. muahhaha......"

It's funny how people still perpetuate this bullshit that evil publishers force obshitian to release their games in a half-assed state. It might have worked at first, but now that Lucas Arts, ATARI, SEGA, Bethesda and the rest of the universe, all push obshitian to release games head of time, I thought people would have realized this excuse doesn't work anymore.

So please tell us what was Obsidian's ultimate goal. They looked at it and said "yep, it's a masterpiece, can't wait for everyone to experience that ending". We're talking about a full team of grown adults that have more video game industry talent on the pimple of their ass than you will in your lifetime.

Oh thats right, the ending was rushed and missing but you just wanted to sound counter-trend.

Thank you for validating my point.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Darth Publisher : "Release the Sith Lords on the Universe!"

Lt. Obsidian : "It's not ready Darth, please, have mercy!"

Darth Publisher : "Muahahahaha... choke on the unfinished lulz goodness fools!.. muahhaha......"

It's funny how people still perpetuate this bullshit that evil publishers force obshitian to release their games in a half-assed state. It might have worked at first, but now that Lucas Arts, ATARI, SEGA, Bethesda and the rest of the universe, all push obshitian to release games head of time, I thought people would have realized this excuse doesn't work anymore.

So please tell us what was Obsidian's ultimate goal. They looked at it and said "yep, it's a masterpiece, can't wait for everyone to experience that ending". We're talking about a full team of grown adults that have more video game industry talent on the pimple of their ass than you will in your lifetime.

Oh thats right, the ending was rushed and missing but you just wanted to sound counter-trend.

Thank you for validating my point.

These are not the droids you're looking for..

 

[Wyrmlord]

Darth Publisher : "Release the Sith Lords on the Universe!"

Lt. Obsidian : "It's not ready Darth, please, have mercy!"

Darth Publisher : "Muahahahaha... choke on the unfinished lulz goodness fools!.. muahhaha......"

It's funny how people still perpetuate this bullshit that evil publishers force obshitian to release their games in a half-assed state. It might have worked at first, but now that Lucas Arts, ATARI, SEGA, Bethesda and the rest of the universe, all push obshitian to release games head of time, I thought people would have realized this excuse doesn't work anymore.

Obsidian's INTENTION was to commit to such half-hearted projects.

Why was it that an incomplete game like The Sith Lords sold 2 million copies? Because we'd then have to ask how many more copies it would sell if it were a complete game.

There is evidence for this tactic going back to the late 1990s, when Feargus Urquahart said that his intention with games was to do a "Slam Dunk" - borrow another engine, make a sequel to somebody else's game, push it out in a few months, make huge sales from the branding while having done the project at low cost. D-d-d-d-double kill!

 

[Roguey]

Obsidian sucks at project management (at least up until DS3, that was well-managed) but LucasArts did push the release date up two months, there are still game newsposts from 2004 that announced the schedule change. You can't cut months off a project in the middle without sacrificing a lot.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Darth Publisher : "Release the Sith Lords on the Universe!"

Lt. Obsidian : "It's not ready Darth, please, have mercy!"

Darth Publisher : "Muahahahaha... choke on the unfinished lulz goodness fools!.. muahhaha......"

It's funny how people still perpetuate this bullshit that evil publishers force obshitian to release their games in a half-assed state. It might have worked at first, but now that Lucas Arts, ATARI, SEGA, Bethesda and the rest of the universe, all push obshitian to release games head of time, I thought people would have realized this excuse doesn't work anymore.

Because:
(a) it was actually true on one occasion - KoTOR2;
(b) crpg developers ALL get screwed by publishers. Even Bioware gets forced to push out their products before they are ready now that they're owned by EA. Publishers look at rpgs and ask themselves 'why should we fund something that takes twice as long to make as a FPS, when it's probably going to make less money than most FPS games? Fuck 'em - tell the developer we'll publish their game, but only if they do it on a FPS timeline, and the game goes out in 12 months no matter what state it's in.' The only exception is Bethesda, as crappy as they are, because they're large enough to self-publish.

The KoTOR2 handling was screwy even by the standards of (b) above, in that an already short timeline (for a company making its first game) was cut even shorter than expected. The rest of Obsidian's games were made in the same environment as that faced by every other crpg-maker around, i.e. a bad one, but no worse than anyone else's.

In NWN2's case, some of their ex-staff (e.g. that Annie individual who's working on Dead State) have said outright that Obsidian screwed up - i.e. until Sawyer came in and took over management of the game, very late in the piece, they had something utterly unplayable and unsellable on their hands and that it was a minor miracle by Sawyer that the game was even released in a profit-making state (hence the high opinion of Sawyer within Obsidian despite every single one of his games (other than NWN2, which he took over late in a damage-recovery role) being cancelled until New Vegas came out.

 

[RK47]

...NWN 2...oh god. I still can't count how many hours I lost in the game hating it, forcing my self to play it because the toolkit is so bad, the community had trouble releasing any modules worth dick.

In contrast, NWN 1 , I shift between the OC, and dived into the modules and never looked back. Good times. The original NWN really was worth the money back then simply due to user-created content alone.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

And Mask of the Betrayer was worth more than all of that user-created content.

 

[Wyrmlord]

You know what was BS in KotOR?

An ancient race of aliens introduced out of nowhere into the last part of the game. We are told that they once ruled the Star Wars universe, but their empire fell apart. They were the key people helping Revan, ho ho ho.

This is Scientology level of third rate writing.

And where else have I heard this ancient race nonsense? Oh right, Neverwinter Nights OC. Come on, BioWare!

 

[Sceptic]

And where else have I heard this ancient race nonsense? Oh right, Neverwinter Nights OC. Come on, BioWare!

I thought you were going to say Mass Effect, but NWN works too.

I always found the last planet to be very jarring, with both the rest of the game and SW in general.

 

[Wyrmlord]

This ancient race plot doesn't work, because it trivializes both the main villain and the ancient race itself.

If the Rakata had played a stronger role throughout the actual game, if there was lore or hints about them, and if it was reflected in various early game events, it would make sense. But they were just used as an excuse to explain the Star Forge.

On the other hand, the Sith Lord was not really making any impressive plan by himself, but was just reviving the operations of another group. They just become a secondhand dealer in villain ideas.

I believe I was annoyed when David Eddings does the same in his lousy stories.