Planescape: Torment retrospective

[Barbarian]

On my last playthrough I had a balanced TNO with high wisdom and enough of everything else to be a good fighter and switch to mage when needed(average charisma and dexterity). Enjoyed the game more than I remembered(and that was a lot). Combat was infinitely less boring when you could kill mostly everything with a couple of hits.

The thing is that TNO is an arnold-like strongman full of scars who is always pictured in the game art with maces, axes and warhammers. It never made sense to me to have him as a mage or thief with low strenght and constitution, and he is certainly not supposed to be charismatic(he is ugly as sin and a bitter man after all). A strong, resilient and wise fighter is what he should be I suppose, despite one of his other incarnations being one of the "last great wizards".

And btw, wisdom gives you the most positive outcome of all stats when it comes to dialog. Charisma will open up a couple of extra content, but you can switch to mage and use friends spell for that. And you don't really need more than 16 base intelligence to get all the dakkon content(tatoos and cranium rats can then boost the stat to 19).

 

[Sykar]

On my last playthrough I had a balanced TNO with high wisdom and enough of everything else to be a good fighter and switch to mage when needed(average charisma and dexterity). Enjoyed the game more than I remembered(and that was a lot). Combat was infinitely less boring when you could kill mostly everything with a couple of hits.

The thing is that TNO is an arnold-like strongman full of scars who is always pictured in the game art with maces, axes and warhammers. It never made sense to me to have him as a mage or thief with low strenght and constitution, and he is certainly not supposed to be charismatic(he is ugly as sin and a bitter man after all). A strong, resilient and wise fighter is what he should be I suppose, despite one of his other incarnations being one of the "last great wizards".

And btw, wisdom gives you the most positive outcome of all stats when it comes to dialog. Charisma will open up a couple of extra content, but you can switch to mage and use friends spell for that. And you don't really need more than 16 base intelligence to get all the dakkon content(tatoos and cranium rats can then boost the stat to 19).

TNO had literally hundreds of incarnations so one of them being mage is not much of a stretch especially considering his goals.

 

[Barbarian]

TNO had literally hundreds of incarnations so one of them being mage is not much of a stretch especially considering his goals.

The ideal thing would be for TNO to at least be able to dual-class, but the game puts a cap on that. I always found it quite silly to change classes on the go like that, specially considering the game's premise and who and what TNO is supposed to be. He should be able to use those classes and their skills at the same time one way or another.

I don't even remember if 2nd editin D&D had that kind of restriction for humans, but even if it had, TNO should be an exception.

 

[typical user]

Dakkon is fighter-mage and I found it dumb I couldn't make PC like him class-wise.

 

[kmonster]

If you only care for the story and don't want any challenge in combat simply max con, you'll regenerate HP so fast that you're invincible (unless you mess up with someone who can do more than just kill you). This still leaves enough points to put wis to 18 at the start too, the luck bonus for it helps doing damage in combat and almost always when there is an int- or cha- based option there's a wis-based option which is at least as good. This leaves even 3 points to waste for cha so you can convince even the 2 dustmen guards on the mortuary ground floor not to attack you (or waste 2 points into dex for snapping necks). But even if you have to fight you can simply kill those guards and die on purpose afterwards and return into the then peaceful area.

 

[Neanderthal]

The ideal thing would be for TNO to at least be able to dual-class, but the game puts a cap on that. I always found it quite silly to change classes on the go like that, specially considering the game's premise and who and what TNO is supposed to be. He should be able to use those classes and their skills at the same time one way or another.

I don't even remember if 2nd editin D&D had that kind of restriction for humans, but even if it had, TNO should be an exception.

Yeah 2nd edition had dual classing, same as you find in BG: Only available to humans, one time deal and you had to outlevel the first class you abandoned to re-open those skills, maximum two classes. Think Imoen. With Nameless having access to three classes and unlimited advancement in all of them he was kind of a special case.

Dakkon is fighter-mage and I found it dumb I couldn't make PC like him class-wise.

Dakkon is a demi human so gets multiclassing, human don't.

1st and 2nd edition were weird like this.

 

[Coma White]

With Nameless having access to three classes and unlimited advancement in all of them he was kind of a special case.

While TNO's character sheet reads Human, it's never felt to me like a very appropriate categorization considering... well, everything.

 

[Sykar]

With Nameless having access to three classes and unlimited advancement in all of them he was kind of a special case.

While TNO's character sheet reads Human, it's never felt to me like a very appropriate categorization considering... well, everything.

He was human strictly speaking, just lacking his mortality which led to unforseen complications.

 

[Coma White]

He was human without strictly speaking

just lacking his mortality which led to unforseen complications.

Does mortality not make the man? Isn't that, you know, the entire point of the story?

 

[T. Reich]

Does mortality not make the man? Isn't that, you know, the entire point of the story?

WHAT CAN CHANGE THE NATURE OF A MAN?

 

[Sykar]

He was human without strictly speaking

just lacking his mortality which led to unforseen complications.

Does mortality not make the man? Isn't that, you know, the entire point of the story?

But it did not change him into a totally different species. Or did he become a dwarf, elf, tiefling, half-god or whatever? No he remained human lacking mortality that is all. Now the really interessing question is what exacly was the Transcendent One? You would think that mortality would be something like "energy" "soul" or whatnot but it became setnient. Would it's character sheet say that, sentient mortality?

 

[Coma White]

But it did not change him into a totally different species. Or did he become a dwarf, elf, tiefling, half-god or whatever? No he remained human lacking mortality that is all. Now the really interessing question is what exacly was the Transcendent One? You would think that mortality would be something like "energy" "soul" or whatnot but it became setnient. Would it's character sheet say that, sentient mortality?

I always assumed it had determined its own form by its own will. Being Planescape and all.

 

[Sykar]

Possible of course.

 

[Neanderthal]

Not entirely, the twisting barbed branches that make up its figure speaks of Ravel's magic, despite the Transcendant Ones contempt for the Hag. I would say it grew out of her magic, the experiences it shared in its symbiotic relationship wi the various incarnations o Nameless and shaping itself to its own will.

If I were GM i'd probably specify it as a Symbiotic Anomaly or something less arty farty.

 

[T. Reich]

Given the nature of the Outer Planes - the place where ideas can take forms and life of their own, it's only logical that an aspect of mortality could form as a being.
Being an aspect of mortality of a specific sentient being, it's not illogical to assume that it could achieve sentience of its own, especially given a bit of magical assistance from Ravel's spell.
After all, one could assume that "mortality" could be closely tied to the concept of a person's "soul", so it could take part of NMO's consciousness when it was seprarated from him.

I'm sure theare are bits of Transcendenal One's dialogue that could provide some insights, but I can't be arsed looking for them.

 

[Athelas]

Isn't the Transcendent One supposed to be like Adahn, a thought turned sentient? That thought being original!TNO's desire to live (forever).

It's also the classic fantasy trope of phrasing spells incorrectly with catastrophic results. When Ravel made TNO immortal, she did so in a technical sense, by removing his mortality.

 

[Neanderthal]

Given the nature of the Outer Planes - the place where ideas can take forms and life of their own, it's only logical that an aspect of mortality could form as a being.
Being an aspect of mortality of a specific sentient being, it's not illogical to assume that it could achieve sentience of its own, especially given a bit of magical assistance from Ravel's spell.
After all, one could assume that "mortality" could be closely tied to the concept of a person's "soul", so it could take part of NMO's consciousness when it was seprarated from him.

I'm sure theare are bits of Transcendenal One's dialogue that could provide some insights, but I can't be arsed looking for them.

Transcendant One states that he has watched the Nameless One throughout all o his incarnations, and learned from all o his experiences. You can work out that they are both symbiotically bound to each other, thats why TTO wants Nameless to forget an simply exist as an eternal amnesiac wanderin the planes, so that the creature can live on without being interrupted by Nameless searching for his mortality, an the possible threat of him succeeding. Thats why you can threaten TTO with the Blade of the Immortal, by sayin you'll off yoursen an force a merging. Or if you've high enough stats simply reabsorb your mortality into yourself.

I think its fair to say that TTO is Nameless' soul, his biography states he feels empty and missing something inside, and you can admit this to Fell as the truth.

I like to imagine it beginning as a small barbed seed that Ravel found and nurtured, growing stronger with each incarnation until it journeyed to the Fortress of Regrets, or maybe found or formed that place from the First Incarnations boundless regrets.

 

[Coma White]

Transcendant One states that he has watched the Nameless One throughout all o his incarnations, and learned from all o his experiences. You can work out that they are both symbiotically bound to each other, thats why TTO wants Nameless to forget an simply exist as an eternal amnesiac wanderin the planes, so that the creature can live on without being interrupted by Nameless searching for his mortality, an the possible threat of him succeeding. Thats why you can threaten TTO with the Blade of the Immortal, by sayin you'll off yoursen an force a merging. Or if you've high enough stats simply reabsorb your mortality into yourself.

I think its fair to say that TTO is Nameless' soul, his biography states he feels empty and missing something inside, and you can admit this to Fell as the truth.

I like to imagine it beginning as a small barbed seed that Ravel found and nurtured, growing stronger with each incarnation until it journeyed to the Fortress of Regrets, or maybe found or formed that place from the First Incarnations boundless regrets.

Fuck this game is awesome.

 

[Sigourn]

I finished this game a couple of days ago.

And the problem with "retrospectives" is that they are just that: retrospectives. How I feel about this game today is more valuable than my thoughts on this game, 20 years from now. Time usually washes out our feelings towards things, and not necessarely in a good, "my view is clear now" way.

As to how I feel about this game: I was fucked out of the story thanks to spoilers, but the parts I didn't know about, such as "don't trust the skull" or the pillar of skulls, simply amazing. It speaks a lot of this game when it is on par with my fondest JPRG memories of Final Fantasy VII, IX and X. I feel like no western RPG I have played has had an impact on me storywise, but PS:T is the first one to do that, and at my 23 years old no less (as opposed to the 15 years I had when I played the Final Fantasy games).

Sadly I learned too late why people always recommended a certain build. Turns out PS:T has a lot of combat if you don't have the right stats. :/

EDIT: Oh and this would totally make* a bitching movie trilogy, many tears would be shed at the end of the third one, no doubt about it.

*or better said, would have made.

 

[Kahr]

I finished this game a couple of days ago.
As to how I feel about this game: I was fucked out of the story thanks to spoilers

Getting spoilers on PST is sad. I mourn thee.

It speaks a lot of this game when it is on par with my fondest JPRG memories of Final Fantasy VII, IX and X. I feel like no western RPG I have played has had an impact on me storywise

That's because PST is a JRPG game, lel.

 

[United Nations]

What was PST budget compared to Numenara?

I couldn't find it through an internet search.

 

[HoboForEternity]

contrary to what the game teach people, regret does not change the nature of man. every morning i get hangover i regret getting wasted, yet i keep doing it

 

[Nael]

contrary to what the game teach people, regret does not change the nature of man. every morning i get hangover i regret getting wasted, yet i keep doing it