Planescape: Torment retrospective

[A user named cat]

 

[Xathrodox86]

Could we see some of said fan art?

My body is ready.

 

[Leitz]

PS:T was the first and last game about which I produced (a lot of) fan art.
So, how does it replay?

Hm. Not so great. It's like The Longest Journey (also going for a top-three spot): the first time it's the journey of a lifetime, but the second time you know up front what is going to happen.

...

Oh, and I skip most of the text by now. I tend to read only the highlights. And i'ts not that I play it so often that I remember it all that well. Just that I know the setting, and it takes too much time.

Not that voiced conversations would be an improvement: They are far simpler, but take even much more time.

I had the same experience when I played it the first and last time. Planescape Torment is a bad game and constantly overrated by people who played it in their youth when they were sentimental or whatever. I'm a matured reader and I just can't take all this crap about good writing equals good games. It doesn't.

 

[Neanderthal]

Torment were a good game in my opinion, then again I were young when I first played it, lets see '99 I were 26 so fairly young though i've never been sentimental. Then again i've played it every few years since, still think its a good game. Combats better and more satisfying if you don't go usual gimp yoursen build that everybody does, themes and foreshadowin are dead solid, itemisations excellent wi some real unique stuff, writin is excellent equal o BaK, characters are distinct an interestin, art style is unique and really strong, conversations are fuckin brilliant and human instead o Bioware route, alignment is for a change well implemented an opens up options for you. Theres lots o choice an consequence in almost every quest, from choosin how to get to Drowned Catacombs via Rats or Dead to all reactivity in Clerk's Ward.

I'd say probably best part were thematic reinforcement though, fuckin top notch, an all clicks into place further you go. I'd also recommend low Charisma run, get it down to 3 wi that tweak mod an you get treated like Nameless should, oh an use 19 strength specialisation exploit, folk react to it big time. Your threats carry weight an your as strong as you look.

 

[Bonzai]

Problem with Torment is that its unfinished. The Sigil part of it is awesome the whole plane trawelling thing is just utter bullshit. Compare the catacombs map and how good and detailed it is with that shitty baator map. Trias/Fhjull subplot also doesn't make any sense and is there just to (poorly) tie up lose ends. IMO they should've cut that plane-jumping nonsense altogether and mede Ravel point you in a direction of the antagonist.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Wut? If anything there should've been more plane walking. Except done well not like what we got.

 

[Infinitron]

PS:T's plane travelling was absolutely necessary narratively. It needed to feel like TNO had undergone an odyssey of sorts before reaching his final destination.

It could have been better, but of course everything comes at a price - a modern project manager probably would have cut some of Sigil to beef up that part of the game.

 

[Bonzai]

It does feel like the devs wanted planeswalking be the major part of the whole story but alas a man can dream. Should've called it Sigilscape:Torment then. I mean that even the way the game is now i love it. I just never play it past Ravel. Anyone feels the same?

 

[FeelTheRads]

a modern project manager probably would have cut some of Sigil to beef up that part of the game.

And that would've been worse. If I had to choose, I'd rather have an experience with big ups and downs rather than one of these modern consistently mediocre ones.

But I'm not sure where this view on modern development comes from. My understanding is that in modern game development you cut but don't put back something else. Or you cut and release as DLC.

 

[Zerth]

PS:T's plane travelling was absolutely necessary narratively. It needed to feel like TNO had undergone an odyssey of sorts before reaching his final destination.

It could have been better, but of course everything comes at a price - a modern project manager probably would have cut some of Sigil to beef up that part of the game.

Exactly. The Planes are a key (and very fascinating) part of Planescape's story. Leaving them as a anecdotal element would have been very unsatisfactory.

But I'm not sure where this view on modern development comes from. My understanding is that in modern game development you cut but don't put back something else. Or you cut and release as DLC.

Neither do I. Maybe because devs are pressed to comply with release date perhaps?. And cutting content from Sigil should be a crime of some sort by the way. Seriously I can't conceive a severed Sigil, even without Alley with dangerous angles.

 

[SymbolicFrank]

I think it depends on what you (as project manager) want to accomplish. Both PS:T and TLJ succeed (in the first run) at giving you a great, emotional voyage. It's really weird, incredible stuff happens, and it's you who pulls it off. Really satisfying.

Then again, it's quite linear and a single story. Little replay value. And the story is finished. As can be seen in the (spiritual) sequels. Which didn't have a new story to tell, but just wanted to milk the previous one for all it's worth.

That's not something that only happens to video games: it's far more common in movies and books.


So: if you make a sequel, do you want to reuse and reacquire as much as possible (boring), or are you going to tell a completely new story, that is (most likely) completely different from the first one?

Then again, the players loved it for the emotional journey. Reproduce that!

The setting and background are totally subservient to the emotional content.


But, IRL, most sequels are made by different people who slavishly try to recreate that setting and background, while giving as much of the previous crew a cameo as possible.

 

[Grotesque]

 

[Neanderthal]

You know thinkin about it i'd hav made trip into Baator like lower levels o first Diablo, some infernal stronghold on Carceri, that you hav to sneak round an survive while witnessin all sufferin an punishments being meted out to souls. Outside you could hav entire Blood War ragin, little cutscene showin somethin like end movie when you look out window. Chat wi tortured souls, see structured cruelty of Baatezu at play, maybe even hear the roared commands of a Pit Fiend echoing through corridors. Spikes holding quivering corpses that despite whatever limb is missing still live, a constant moaning of damned souls, gargoyles an decorations that have a kind o half life an lash out at anyone passin by, sudden explosions o fire an magma as ground splits apart. Could even bump into Athelgrin an Tegarin again maybe, specially wi that Pendant o Yemeth quest now back in game?

An as you infiltrate deeper into heart o citadel you hear the gibbering of the Pillar o Skulls, the heart o this stronghold, what its been built around.

Take a fair bit o work an resources I imagine though.

Could hav Grace bumpin into somebody she knew once when held by Baatezu, see maybe old chambers o Fhjull Forked Tongue an find out more about his pacts, maybe even see a Paladin in Hell chained an bound by the evil that holds him hear an despair that is stronger than chains, maybe some old remembrances o Trias when he came to bargain wi Fhjull? Could make another hub, more civilised an urbane than Hive, but even more dangerous for soul an body, wi plenty o opportunities to make bargains an pacts. Be real nice to sell Tome o Pestilential Thought to an infernal merchant, the book betrayed for once instead o other way round.

 

[SymbolicFrank]

Neanderthal: Exactly. That's how my (now lost) fan stories evolved. And probably how the developers would have expanded it if they did have the time and money to do so.

There are numerous untold stories that are hinted at.

 

[Zerth]

0:27-0:50 fighting sigil thugs with low AC in a nutshell .:D


Now, a great fan art:

 

[trym88]

"GUYS, I replayed this super aweshum game and it's not super aweshum anymore, SURPRISE SURPRISE"















op is a retard

 

[ArchAngel]

I am in the middle of replaying it for first time after I played it after release and it is even more awesome than I remember. So fuck you OP.

 

[ArchAngel]

I got a question for PST experts. Is there a point of raising Int over 20? At the moment I got Int at 20, Wis at 20 and Cha at 17 and playing a Mage (I bought and use all 3 +2 stat tattoos). Int 20 says I can learn all spells I find.
I was thinking of raising Wisdom and Charisma higher if Int is no longer needed

 

[DavidBVal]

I got a question for PST experts. Is there a point of raising Int over 20? At the moment I got Int at 20, Wis at 20 and Cha at 17 and playing a Mage (I bought and use all 3 +2 stat tattoos). Int 20 says I can learn all spells I find.
I was thinking of raising Wisdom and Charisma higher if Int is no longer needed

I think 21 INT is enough for all dialogue options, but can't be sure.

Wis 25 is advisable anyways.

 

[Infinitron]

I wonder how feasible it would be to create a mod that adds PoE-style attribute check prefixes to PS:T's dialogue choices. Could make for an interestingly different-feeling play experience.

 

[Neanderthal]

I got a question for PST experts. Is there a point of raising Int over 20? At the moment I got Int at 20, Wis at 20 and Cha at 17 and playing a Mage (I bought and use all 3 +2 stat tattoos). Int 20 says I can learn all spells I find.
I was thinking of raising Wisdom and Charisma higher if Int is no longer needed

You don't need no points in CHA, you get about 6 or so points from story an Friends spell'll do for important conversations, cast a couple o times an you're golden.

 

[ArchAngel]

Since I don't know which conversations are influenced by Charisma I am not going to be casting it all the time. And I don't savescum.

 

[Neanderthal]

Fairy snuff. Personally when I played a manipulative bastard Nameless I used Friends spell on every important convo, Pharod, Ravel you know usual folks. But thought info might be useful for a future playthrough.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I still like to play Planescape: Torment, but then again I still like to break out even older games with worse graphics from Magic Candle to the Gold Box games to Shining Force on the Genesis and so on. Since I have nothing else constructive to add, I'll just put these here (if you want something more revealing check Rule 34):

 

[Excidium II]

I already forgot most of planetscape tournament, the time for replay is coming soon.