Pillars of Eternity Thread [Pre-Expansion]

[Blaine]

You think someone who completed 80% of the game on hard (with a wizard in his party btw) doesn't know how it actually plays?

At what point will enemies begin suffering from Disengagement attacks?

We have people over in Anthony's thread (Sensuki, for example) who played the beta for ages, have played 20-30+ hours into PoE thus far, and they claim that not once have they witnessed enemies suffering Disengagement damage.

In an appeal to authority, I tend to side with them, yeah.

I was just curious about this post here.

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Crafting

Under Crafting Locations.

Oh, right, right. Well, beats me. I haven't built a Forge in my Stronghold yet, nor do I remember if that's even an option. Pretty sure it might be.

Seems pointless though, since you end up with like 10 copies of nearly every kind of mundane weapon fairly quickly, or can buy them fairly cheaply.

Why is this game so bad at explaining its mechanics?

THere are plenty of items and skills with stats like "10% of hits converted into crits" but what the fuck does this mean in terms of mechanics. I assume it means that the threshold for a crit is lowered by 10, even though that is not what the sentance means at all(not even slightly).

Because the rules are a convoluted mess intended to prevent all kiting, all cheesing, and ensure that no stat, Talent, Ability, etc. is ever usless.

For this reason, each stat is interdependent with the other stats in a variety of ways, creating a labyrinthine, amorphous mess that is a failed attempt at creating a perfectly balanced RTwP system of game mechanics.

 

[Grunker]

Sure it doesn't. It makes him responsible for high level decisions. Such as the overall scope and structure of the story.

Is there a problem with that?

Yes. The problem with the story can be summed up with the fact that you have no reason to care or anything to feel invested in. The only actual people with motivations and goals here are the NPCs. Your character is looking for a new home, and he finds that after 10 hours. After that it's just a MacGuffin quest. You literally have one scene where you see some people doing something with purple colors, get swept off your feed, are told you're a "watcher" and then from there it's Welcome To Baldur's Gate 1 Wilderness Exploration For 15 Hours In A Land Where Everybody Talks Like Wikipedia-Articles.

Because there is so little reason to care, because there is no driving force, the writing parts in two: localized quest setup and encyclopedic info dumps thinly veiled as conversation.

The only IE-game that pulled off an unstructured story in this fashion was Torment, and it pulled it off by having a huge, immediate mystery with massive personal implications for a set player character. Pillars of Eternity wants you to be hooked on the world building alone. It thinks that "being in a cool place" is the same as "experiencing something cool." Like a Museum curator who thinks walking around in his building is "almost like being there yourself!"

And the Joshification is felt really strongly here: Pillars of Eternity, like Josh whenever he talked about the game's lore, cares deeply about history, and politics and cities, and peoples and what happened in the past. It cares not a whiff for its player character and the player's reason to care about all those things.

Writing-wise, playing Pillars of Eternity feels like playing a campaign setting for a P&P game, instead of playing a novel set in that setting.

 

[Grunker]

(and all that world building is pretty cool mind, it's fresh to see a setting pay so much attention to internal consistency and believeable tensions between different nationalities, it's just that there are no events to make you interested in all this - you may as well be reading about the history of Rome, not experiencing it)

 

[Blaine]

It's still a great game, but people trying to plaster over the weaknesses of the game mechanics and story (or whatever) should be shot.

 

[Roguey]

who played the beta...have played 20-30+ hours into PoE...

In an appeal to authority, I tend to side with them, yeah.

Yes. The problem with the story can be summed up with the fact that you have no reason to care or anything to feel invested in. The only actual people with motivations and goals here are the NPCs. Your character is looking for a new home, and he finds that after 10 hours. After that it's just a MacGuffin quest.

Because there is so little reason to care, because there is no driving force, the writing parts in two: localized quest setup and encyclopedic info dumps thinly veiled as conversation.

Oh, your issue is with motivation. Here's what I think about motivation in video games http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...f-eternity-released.98015/page-7#post-3825127

The only IE-game that pulled off an unstructured story in this fashion was Torment, and it pulled it off by having a huge, immediate mystery with massive personal implications for a set player character. Pillars of Eternity wants you to be hooked on the world building alone. It thinks that "being in a cool place" is the same as "experiencing something cool."

TBH if I woke up as a blue zombie with no memories and immortality, I wouldn't care at all about how I got that way, and would just take high-risk jobs for high pay and party with my floating skull friend.

 

[Blaine]

So, in essence, you believe that at some point midway through the game or later, enemies will suddenly decide to Disengage occasionally after all?

Since Josh is right, let's see a screenshot of a combat log in which an enemy suffers Disengagement attacks. So far, Codexers who scrutinize the combat log (myself included) seem to have missed them.

 

[Grunker]

It's still a great game, but people trying to plaster over the weaknesses of the game mechanics and story (or whatever) should be shot.

Yeah, it's weird. Game's weakest suit so far is writing for me, all other areas shine. I have quibbles, but the game's strength is everything but its writing, currently at least.

Oh, your issue is with motivation.

I don't believe you know what that word means. "Reason to care" is different from needing a clear-cut "go kill this guy." It's the oldest rule in writing that just because you say to people "THIS IS REALLY COOL" doesn't make them think something is cool. Show, don't tell.

But then, I believe that what you write in that link might be my biggest disagreeance with you ever. Have fun playing Forgotten Realms 3rd Edition Campaign Setting: The Game, then.

I wouldn't care

I take you to be many things Roguey, but a relativist? Surely not. What you care about doesn't matter. PS:T has a clear framing of incentive and a mysterious set of ingenious circumstances. Whatever real-world context you try forcing on that doesn't matter: all that matters is the piece.

Planescape is a personal novel, Baldur's Gate is an adventure. Pillars of Eternity, so far, is an encyclopedia.

 

[Athelas]

Guys, can you go to the stronghold straight after leaving Gilded Vale? I've cleared some of the wilderness maps (Magran's Fork, Esternwood, Anslog's Compass) and the map icon for the stronghold is still greyed out.

 

[Grunker]

(also: the game is amazeballs)

Guys, can you go to the stronghold straight after leaving Gilded Vale? I've cleared some of the wilderness maps (Magran's Fork, Esternwood, Anslog's Compass) and the map icon for the stronghold is still greyed out.

The game functions like BG1. Different exits yield different location openings. So if you exit a map from the west you get access to other new maps than if you exit from the east.

Took me ages to even realize the game had opened up because I was so used to gated Kickstarters

 

[Blaine]

Guys, can you go to the stronghold straight after leaving Gilded Vale? I've cleared some of the wilderness maps (Magran's Fork, Esternwood, Anslog's Compass) and the map icon for the stronghold is still greyed out.

Nigga you cleared Anslog's Compass before reaching the stronghold?

Guys, I got a Normie here! He's playing Normal difficulty! Everyone laugh!

Spoiler

Probably the best difficulty to play on. It's a little too easy, but at least that way the obnoxious game mechanics issues don't smack you in the face constantly.

 

[Athelas]

(also: the game is amazeballs)

Guys, can you go to the stronghold straight after leaving Gilded Vale? I've cleared some of the wilderness maps (Magran's Fork, Esternwood, Anslog's Compass) and the map icon for the stronghold is still greyed out.

The game functions like BG1. Different exits yield different location openings. So if you exit a map from the west you get access to other new maps than if you exit from the east.

Took me ages to even realize the game had opened up because I was so used to gated Kickstarters

I thought so, but the game seems to be somewhat inconsistent about which side of the map opens up new locations.

Guys, can you go to the stronghold straight after leaving Gilded Vale? I've cleared some of the wilderness maps (Magran's Fork, Esternwood, Anslog's Compass) and the map icon for the stronghold is still greyed out.

Nigga you cleared Anslog's Compass before reaching the stronghold?

Guys, I got a Normie here! He's playing Normal difficulty! Everyone laugh!

Spoiler

Probably the best difficulty to play on. It's a little too easy, but at least that way the obnoxious game mechanics issues don't smack you in the face constantly.

I'm playing on hard. What's supposed to be so difficult about Anslog's Compass?

 

[Grunker]

Guys, can you go to the stronghold straight after leaving Gilded Vale? I've cleared some of the wilderness maps (Magran's Fork, Esternwood, Anslog's Compass) and the map icon for the stronghold is still greyed out.

Nigga you cleared Anslog's Compass before reaching the stronghold?

Guys, I got a Normie here! He's playing Normal difficulty! Everyone laugh!

I did too and I'm playing on Hard, so I don't get the reference

Also Hard is fine, git gud

 

[Blaine]

I did too and I'm playing on Hard, so I don't get the reference

Also Hard is fine, git gud

You beat the Champion Kobold (With A Twist!) group with four level 3-4 party members? Or maybe I went at level 2, but I think I went at level 3 with 3-4 characters initially.

Well, you're better than me. Hats off to you. On the other hand, my PC is a Chanter, which uh... isn't ideal at low levels in a small party, or so I'm beginning to suspect.

 

[Athelas]

'You're better than me' is just a different way of saying 'I'm suckier than you'.

 

[Grunker]

I did too and I'm playing on Hard, so I don't get the reference

Also Hard is fine, git gud

You beat the Champion Kobold (With A Twist!) group with four level 3-4 party members? Or maybe I went at level 2, but I think I went at level 3 with 3-4 characters initially.

Well, you're better than me. Hats off to you. On the other hand, my PC is a Chanter, which uh... isn't ideal at low levels in a small party, or so I'm beginning to suspect.

No, I didn't, I just don't find anything particularly annoying about Hard except my small quibbles with engagement.

Wait, you mean the kobold at the compass? Eh, beat him with 4 level 3 dudes. Honestly don't recall that being very tough.

'You're better than me' is just a different way of saying 'I'm suckier than you'.

I don't believe I have claimed to be better than anyone.

 

[Blaine]

Athelas
Or, you know, you have a min-maxed Rogue as your PC. I hear Monks are quite powerful at the beginning too, and get shitty later on unless you use a specialized build.

No, I didn't, I just don't find anything particularly annoying about Hard except my small quibbles with engagement.

Same here. I'm just a bit nonplussed that anyone could take on that six-strong-with-a-champion group at Anslog's compass with four low-level party members.

 

[potatojohn]

I did too and I'm playing on Hard, so I don't get the reference

Also Hard is fine, git gud

You beat the Champion Kobold (With A Twist!) group with four level 3-4 party members? Or maybe I went at level 2, but I think I went at level 3 with 3-4 characters initially.

Well, you're better than me. Hats off to you. On the other hand, my PC is a Chanter, which uh... isn't ideal at low levels in a small party, or so I'm beginning to suspect.

Hard difficulty, with two wizards and a priest (didn't find out about the fighter companion until later)

 

[Athelas]

I can't even remember the xaurip champion. The two dank spores with the confusion attacks were the only interesting encounter there.

I don't believe I have claimed to be better than anyone.

Well, I wasn't replying to you.

 

[Grunker]

I can't even remember the xaurip champion. The two dank spores with the confusion attacks were the only interesting encounter there/

Yeah I had to see the screenshot to recall it

 

[DosBuster]

I would disagree that just because the story is more focused around the world building aspect than the player is bad. It's a matter of personal choice, for one, I find the companions to be good for your fantasy novel type situation and I find the story intriguing as well.

 

[Doktor Best]

Sure it doesn't. It makes him responsible for high level decisions. Such as the overall scope and structure of the story.

Is there a problem with that?

Yes. The problem with the story can be summed up with the fact that you have no reason to care or anything to feel invested in. The only actual people with motivations and goals here are the NPCs. Your character is looking for a new home, and he finds that after 10 hours. After that it's just a MacGuffin quest. You literally have one scene where you see some people doing something with purple colors, get swept off your feed, are told you're a "watcher" and then from there it's Welcome To Baldur's Gate 1 Wilderness Exploration For 15 Hours In A Land Where Everybody Talks Like Wikipedia-Articles.

Because there is so little reason to care, because there is no driving force, the writing parts in two: localized quest setup and encyclopedic info dumps thinly veiled as conversation.

The only IE-game that pulled off an unstructured story in this fashion was Torment, and it pulled it off by having a huge, immediate mystery with massive personal implications for a set player character. Pillars of Eternity wants you to be hooked on the world building alone. It thinks that "being in a cool place" is the same as "experiencing something cool." Like a Museum curator who thinks walking around in his building is "almost like being there yourself!"

And the Joshification is felt really strongly here: Pillars of Eternity, like Josh whenever he talked about the game's lore, cares deeply about history, and politics and cities, and peoples and what happened in the past. It cares not a whiff for its player character and the player's reason to care about all those things.

Writing-wise, playing Pillars of Eternity feels like playing a campaign setting for a P&P game, instead of playing a novel set in that setting.

Your character gets almost blown to pieces by a magical explosion that somehow infects his mind so he can see fucking ghosts and gets nightmares almost every night which even makes his companions wake him up because hes shaking so much. He knows that the explosion was caused by this dark cult that sacrifices their own people to activate some strange magical devices and learns (through maka) that this cult does not refrain from killing innocents who get in their way. Then you meet this maelorn dude who shared the same fate as you in which progress he was driven mad like mel fucking gibson. And now you tell us there is no motivation for him to stop this progress? Should he lean back and wait until hes the same brabbling lunatic as maelorn?

And for the sidequest, well, youre not forced to do them. Whatever reason drives you to do them is up to you (getting money, fucking someone over that you dont like, playing the hero etc usw) Its still an rpg after all you know.

 

[Roguey]

I don't believe you know what that word means. "Reason to care" is different from needing a clear-cut "go kill this guy." It's the oldest rule in writing that just because you say to people "THIS IS REALLY COOL" doesn't make them think something is cool. Show, don't tell.

But then, I believe that what you write in that link might be my biggest disagreeance with you ever. Have fun playing Forgotten Realms 3rd Edition Campaign Setting: The Game, then.

Yessssssssssss, Josh and I remain one and the same. Nothing could ever possibly make me care, so don't bother wasting time coming up with a reason. I'll do the content because it's there, as always.

 

[Raghar]

I played BG2 recently, and I didn't have problems with pathfinding. Have you used that config dialog that allowed to increase number of pathfinding nodes? It has been set conservatively to protect computers with slow CPU.

 

[Blaine]

Hard difficulty, with two wizards and a priest

Not bad. I can see doing it with two Wizards, sure. Party damage output with a Chanter PC is pretty shit near the beginning, and dishing out lots of damage quickly is pretty vital in a scenario like that.

Wish I still had my save file. I just assumed it was too much to take on after initially getting wrecked.

 

[Raghar]

BTW did they corrected the bug where equipping with doubleclick removes bonuses?