On why Bioware's games are so freaking easy.

[JrK]

http://blog.bioware.com/2008/11/20/resp ... racter-p2/

A nugget of gold: "A beginning Druid might only have a “+6 to their Survival skill” but by virtue of the fact that they choose the Druid character to play, their Survival skills should simply have more meaning than the Rogue’s +6 Survival skill."

Is he really telling us a lvl 9 rogue who has spent more than a level of skillpoints in a crossclass skill shouldn't be worth much in the survival department compared to a lvl 3 druid?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

People who whine about games being too easy tend to be too stupid to notice the difficulty settings.

 

[racofer]

WAH MAH GAEM IS 2 EZ ON EZ BIOWHORE DUMBS TEHM DOWN!11!!1

 

[Mr. Wednesday]

Bioware's a little schizophrenic as far as difficulty goes. I remember dying over and over in Baldur's Gate 2 until I got used to the D&D rules, and even then it was still pretty difficult. Hordes of the Underdark was pretty challenging as well. But I don't think I died a single time in the NWN OC, SoU, or KOTOR.

 

[Disconnected]

Bioware's a little schizophrenic as far as difficulty goes. I remember dying over and over in Baldur's Gate 2 until I got used to the D&D rules, and even then it was still pretty difficult. Hordes of the Underdark was pretty challenging as well. But I don't think I died a single time in the NWN OC, SoU, or KOTOR.

I think the classic example is the PC in KoTOR facing off against force-eating melee monsters on his own.

Basically, it's a design philosophy problem. BioWare (and the various creaters of AD&D and D&D) likes to offer character classes with wildly different combat capabilities, and likes to counter class abilities with immunities. It makes it very easy for players to dig their own graves, especially when players insist on having access to a million and a half different races, classes, class combinations, party sizes and party make-ups.

It's my impression BioWare (and Obsidian) have opted for nerfing combat since the IE games, rather than letting players play half-way through their games before finding out they've fucked themselves.

None of these things are problems in PnP games where GMs can fix encounters and even fake dice rolls. But it's a problem in games where there's no GM, and where players still expect to be able to make anything and everything work. Whether it's wrong of developers to try to indulge players no matter what, depends on how you look at it. Gameplay-wise, it's a mistake. The games become piss easy for a lot of people, and have wildly fluctuating difficulty curves for everyone else. But sales-wise, it's probably safer to make games everyone can finish on their first play-through, no matter how odd they play.

The real problem, of course, is that the design philosophy isn't ideal for games that are meant to be beatable on the first try by everyone, no matter what.

 

[Volourn]

"But sales-wise, it's probably safer to make games everyone can finish on their first play-through, no matter how odd they play."

Problem with that theory is that BIO themselves have stated that most players don't finish games anyways so why make games eays to finish if most players won't finish them, anyways? L0L

 

[oldmanpaco]

Standard games are for the plebeians - difficulty mods are for the Codex crowd.

Play Improved Anvil and then complain about easy Bioware games. Evil mod.

 

[Disconnected]

Problem with that theory is that BIO themselves have stated that most players don't finish games anyways so why make games eays to finish if most players won't finish them, anyways? L0L

Show how hetso wto ihgtsn are eatedlr ,dna hwo they relate ot sleas. L0L

Or better yet, ignore my posts altogether. Short of of an opportunity to dismember you with nail clippers, I can't think of anything I'd appreciate more.

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

Standard games are for the plebeians - difficulty mods are for the Codex crowd.

Play Improved Anvil and then complain about easy Bioware games. Evil mod.

There are several difficulty mods, but I find this is the best. Many of the BG difficulty mods involve illegal hacking of creatures and all that, this anvil one randomises stuff and changes rules and items to be balanced.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Standard games are for the plebeians - difficulty mods are for the Codex crowd.

Play Improved Anvil and then complain about easy Bioware games. Evil mod.

There are several difficulty mods, but I find this is the best. Many of the BG difficulty mods involve illegal hacking of creatures and all that, this anvil one randomises stuff and changes rules and items to be balanced.

Very true - You can't say that Sekrit is cheating.. just that he is an evil bastard.

 

[kris]

Problem with that theory is that BIO themselves have stated that most players don't finish games anyways so why make games eays to finish if most players won't finish them, anyways? L0L

Maybe they should make them so good that people want to play them to the finish?

 

[Volourn]

Tell that to ALL game developers.

 

[MetalCraze]

People who whine about games being too easy tend to be too stupid to notice the difficulty settings.

There are no difficulty settings in Bioware games, only easiness settings - from very easy to less easy.

 

[deranged]

Standard games are for the plebeians - difficulty mods are for the Codex crowd.

Play Improved Anvil and then complain about easy Bioware games. Evil mod.

Randomized items are good. But the mod is seriously unbalanced. If you follow the required route (Slums, Umar Hills, Trademeet, back to Athkatla e.t.c.) it's probably doable for an experienced BG2 player. If not, well you are royally fucked. I made the mistake of visiting the docks before doing Trademeet... Let's say that Suna Seni and company kept on blowin me to pieces even after 35-40 reloads...

If you like adventuring without the danger of being anhiliated in every step you make. try Stratagems for BG2. More balanced IMHO and it makes changes to EVERY enemy and random encounter in the game (through the use-of pre-buffing sure but it's still a good challenge).

Apparently version 6 of Improved Anvil will be even harder...

 

[obediah]

http://blog.bioware.com/2008/11/20/respect-the-character-p2/

A nugget of gold: "A beginning Druid might only have a “+6 to their Survival skill” but by virtue of the fact that they choose the Druid character to play, their Survival skills should simply have more meaning than the Rogue’s +6 Survival skill."

This guy is "designing" rpgs? I guess by dumbing down their games, they've gotten to the point where the developers don't even understand the concept of a game system. He's sees the numbers and he's been taught they are important, but he has no idea how to use them. So rather than just giving druids +5 to survival at level 1, and a free +1/lvl after that, and sending it off to balance testing, he starts surrounding the holy number with layers of crap to make it work the way he wants. Pretty soon, the number goes through so many layers of crap that it's value doesn't matter and someone removes it from the character sheet to make things "more accessible".

 

[doctor_kaz]

Mass Effect wasn't that easy. The friendly AI was pathetic so some of the early battles against rocket-launching tank Geth are really hard.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Mass Effect wasn't that easy. The friendly AI was pathetic so some of the early battles against rocket-launching tank Geth are really hard.

No, there's one part of Mass Effect on the planet where you pick up the blue chick follower that was pretty rough depending on your character. When they ambush you with the jumpers and that bigger Geth that can kill you in one shot, it can get fairly nasty. The majority of times, my followers typically get wiped out and I'm left shooting from behind a wall and hoping my gun doesn't overheat. I've had to reload on that point several times.

Also, the fight with the blue chick's mom can be hairy.

 

[Lesifoere]

A game being difficult because the AI is pathetic is very different from being difficult because it's been well-designed to be challenging, though.

 

[MetalCraze]

But ME isn't difficult. I can't imagine how you can find a challenge in ME's combat, except for looking at something else instead of screen out of boredom while being killed by dumb npcs.
A challenging combat in a game with re-gen and Circle-Of-Doom as a targeting aid? Oh please

 

[poocolator]

NWN2 was hardly easy. I was raped too many times to count by those goddamned foes. I even dicked around with the difficulty settings but meh. I don't play those games for the combat (which was tiring, fast) anyways, I do it for the SECRET SECKS SCENES ABOUT WHICH ONLY I KNOW.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Combat in Mass Effect was a mixed bag. I died a couple of times on normal, hardcore and whatever the hardest difficulty is called, when I fought the Matriarch. That fight was difficult regardless of what difficulty you played on. I guess the lower difficulty levels make it easier but I don't touch anything lower than normal. It was a fun boss fight though.

The real challenge was fighting the fucking Dune sandworms that can kill you in one hit and takes fucking forever to take down. Fucking hell.

 

[MetalCraze]

It is always a poor design choice to make battles more difficult only by giving an enemy a ridiculous amount of HP instead of normal AI. It doesn't take as much work to do though.

 

[doctor_kaz]

But ME isn't difficult. I can't imagine how you can find a challenge in ME's combat, except for looking at something else instead of screen out of boredom while being killed by dumb npcs.
A challenging combat in a game with re-gen and Circle-Of-Doom as a targeting aid? Oh please

Whether you found ME difficult might depend upon the order in which you play the different planets. The battle with the matriarch was assrapingly hard on normal difficulty if you played it right away. it takes place in a locked room where there is no place to take cover and you come out of a cutscene almost right next to her. Then you take her down and there is another cutscene where you come out next to her. The enemy AI is programmed to bumrush you while spamming you with whatever basic attacks they have. With as useless as your AI teammates are, it's very hard to survive this one since at lower levels your shields and health disappear almost immediately. The absolute worst battle for me though was the first big one on that first story planet with the rocket launching geth. There is no place to run away to, your teammates go down in three seconds regardless of what you do with them, and you can only take about two rockets before dying. The shittiness of the AI companions really drags Mass Effect down. It is by far the worst AI I have ever seen in a AAA release.

 

[Ebonsword]

It is always a poor design choice to make battles more difficult only by giving an enemy a ridiculous amount of HP instead of normal AI.

I agree. For example, BG2 had some difficult battles because magic users would use their spells fairly intelligently (like, you know, actually buffing themselves before a fight).

Some battles in Mass Effect were also difficult, but only because of cheap, one-shot kills.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

There's a few things to which you'll likely die in ME :

1, Your companions shooting you in the back.
2, Some attacks kill you instantly.
3, Mostly you'll just hit some bump or something with the Mako and fly to your doom.

If you ask me, all of these are bullshit and don't make the game challenging, but having to reload after you once again break the laws of physics and your damn tank bounces wildly off the map really make you just quit instead.