Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Lhynn]

God, I loved how that was done. It is pretty amusing that one of RPG historiy's best merchants (Silver Rush) and worst murchants (Gun Runners) existed side by side.

 

[Grunker]

The Gun Runners' Vendortron kiosk is a great example of Josh protecting players from themselves. It'll always be there for you.

Boring. New Vegas was about said reactivity. Silver Rush was a beautiful little piece of design, marred by the existance of the Gun Runners.

 

[Roguey]

The Gun Runners' Vendortron kiosk is a great example of Josh protecting players from themselves. It'll always be there for you.

Boring. New Vegas was about said reactivity. Silver Rush was a beautiful little piece of design, marred by the existance of the Gun Runners.

Josh isn't going to allow a game to reach an unwinnable state through the elimination of all merchants.

 

[Visperas]

the more choices you have in a RPG the better

No. Fuck off. Here's why.

Reactivity demands resources, and lots of them. You people started this discussion with a demand for killable merchants that dropped their inventory. Then when countered with the completely game-breaking effect, your rebuttal was that the killing demands consequences. And thus the fan-dreaming of endless budgets crept on.

I'm not completely sure I got the messages in the links but I might just be too tired... If it meant what I think it meant, I kinda agree with you. There's certain RPGs that wouldn't benefit from certain features one could deem obligatory in other RPGs but I didn't say you need to have "all" choices and there have to be a limit because of budget and reality. I'm not a strictly simulationist but I like some simulation in my RPG from now and then.

Also, yes. My perfect RPG is utopic and probably will never be made but one can dream and ask for some games to go in that direction. The ability to kill merchants and keep their loot is as game-breaking as the developers wants it to be (maybe some incompetence can change that "want" to a "make") and I think that to be done properly, that action needs complex consecuence. Yup, that would increase the budget of any game trying it but is doesn't mean noone should try it. Reactivity demands a lot of resources and not every game can have as much as we'd like to, so?

 

[SCO]

La Mulana is the best rpg ever

Spoiler

 

[Zed]

It was called Arcanum and it wasn't received as well.

Not because of the swords tho.

 

[Lhynn]

Josh isn't going to allow a game to reach an unwinnable state through the elimination of all merchants.

How the fuck was that game unwinnable? i mean jesus, enemies literally gave away everything you ever needed. money was mostly to spend on hookers and booze.

 

[Roguey]

Josh isn't going to allow a game to reach an unwinnable state through the elimination of all merchants.

How the fuck was that game unwinnable? i mean jesus, enemies literally gave away everything you ever needed. money was mostly to spend on hookers and booze.

AP ammo and weapon mods were only found on merchants. The most reliable way to find top tier weapons was through merchants. Stores are especially important for EW specialists considering most human enemies use regular guns.

 

[tuluse]

Josh isn't going to allow a game to reach an unwinnable state through the elimination of all merchants.

How the fuck was that game unwinnable? i mean jesus, enemies literally gave away everything you ever needed. money was mostly to spend on hookers and booze.

AP ammo and weapon mods were only found on merchants. The most reliable way to find top tier weapons was through merchants. Stores are especially important for EW specialists considering most human enemies use regular guns.

I believe the current plan is to have the good stuff mixed between dungeons and merchants, so you might not need merchants to win the game.

 

[Lhynn]

AP ammo and weapon mods were only found on merchants. The most reliable way to find top tier weapons was through merchants. Stores are especially important for EW specialists considering most human enemies use regular guns.

There was literally a bunker full of that stuff. Plus a couple weapons that replenished their own ammo, plus i believe one that didnt even need ammo, plus another one you could find ammo for pretty much anywhere. Sounds about as unwinnable as DA2 on easy.

 

[Grunker]

The Gun Runners' Vendortron kiosk is a great example of Josh protecting players from themselves. It'll always be there for you.

Boring. New Vegas was about said reactivity. Silver Rush was a beautiful little piece of design, marred by the existance of the Gun Runners.

Josh isn't going to allow a game to reach an unwinnable state through the elimination of all merchants.

Who said I wanted that? Gun Runners essentially stunted the meaningful consequences of getting rid of Silver Rush. I played New Vegas with an energy weapons specialist - losing Silver Rush is the least of your problems. You become King Kong of the World and All Its Inhabitants in late game New Vegas anyway, it's not like you need Gun Runners to offset anything anyway.

 

[Roguey]

Neither of you are approaching it from the perspective of Bad Players.

 

[Grunker]

Reactivity demands a lot of resources and not every game can have as much as we'd like to, so?

So why the fuck do you not recognize that this is true for PoE as well? You're the one asking them to add all this, I'm the one telling you they should focus on other things. Now you're saying "yeah, I agree... so?"

Huh?

Neither of you are approaching it from the perspective of Bad Players.

You're right, damn.

Maybe that's because I don't give a fuck about them? They can turn the difficulty down. Bad players are easy to manage. Just make easy easier or whatever. I am not here to represent bad players, I'm here to represent the wish for good gameplay. Compromising on gameplay quality to accomodate anyone - be it good or bad players - is fucked. You would never agree to such compromise if Sawyer didn't defend it.

You know I don't think you ever responded to the fact that me and my mates beat the IE-games at age 12 without being able to understand English. Most of those mates went on to not play RPGs in their adult lives, so its not like we were the prodigal sons of RPG kings either.

 

[Ninjerk]

Neither of you are approaching it from the perspective of Bad Players.

why would you

 

[Roguey]

You know I don't think you ever responded to the fact that me and my mates beat the IE-games at age 12 without being able to understand English. Most of those mates went on to not play RPGs in their adult lives, so its not like we were the prodigal sons of RPG kings either.

You and your friends aren't the only people in the world.

why would you

Because JES was making a sequel to Fallout 3 intended for Fallout 3 fans.

 

[Visperas]

So why the fuck do you not recognize that this is true for PoE as well? You're the one asking them to add all this, I'm the one telling you they should focus on other things. Now you're saying "yeah, I agree... so?"

Huh?

I recognize is very true on PoE giving the budget and all that, never said otherwise. I jumped when you said that if players want to kill merchants they are psychopaths and continued discussing because I do think the more choices the better.

 

[Grunker]

You know I don't think you ever responded to the fact that me and my mates beat the IE-games at age 12 without being able to understand English. Most of those mates went on to not play RPGs in their adult lives, so its not like we were the prodigal sons of RPG kings either.

You and your friends aren't the only people in the world.

If my retarded childhood friend Jannick who grew up the standard jock could finish fucking Baldur's Gate at age 12, then anyone can. I wasn't comparing my friends to everyone else, I was saying that my friends and I set a very low standard for entry into the world of "can beat an IE-game."

You are not defending bad players, you are defending impatient ones. No one is bad enough that they can't beat New Vegas or Baldur's Gate. Both of these games are pretty fucking easily beaten just trodding along with no clue. However, if you hit ALT-F4 at the first sign of real trouble, any game is fucked up.

And that's what you and Josh want to eliminate. It's a fool's errand, and one that'll cost legitimate players.

 

[Roguey]

You are not defending bad players, you are defending impatient ones. No one is bad enough that they can't beat New Vegas or Baldur's Gate. Both of these games are pretty fucking easily beaten just trodding along with no clue. However, if you hit ALT-F4 at the first sign of real trouble, any game is fucked up.

Josh disagrees.

And that's what you and Josh want to eliminate. It's a fool's errand, and one that'll cost legitimate players.

New Vegas outsold Fallout 3 so it did pretty well when it came to legitimate players.

 

[Grunker]

You are not defending bad players, you are defending impatient ones. No one is bad enough that they can't beat New Vegas or Baldur's Gate. Both of these games are pretty fucking easily beaten just trodding along with no clue. However, if you hit ALT-F4 at the first sign of real trouble, any game is fucked up.

Josh disagrees.

And that's what you and Josh want to eliminate. It's a fool's errand, and one that'll cost legitimate players.

New Vegas outsold Fallout 3 so it did pretty well when it came to legitimate players.

Sales is an indicator of quality now?

New Vegas rocks for a lot of reasons. Its endgame sucks in terms of gameplay however, and so does the Gun Runner shop.

 

[Decado]

Gun Runner's was basically game-breaking in its power. By the end of the game, though, pretty much any character was a murdering machine.

End game balance is a problem that plagues every RPG, and is probably the most consistent problem across all titles and from all developers. Some studios do better than others when it comes to making the end game actually difficult, but most of the time end games are cakewalks.

 

[Lhynn]

Gun Runner's was basically game-breaking in its power. By the end of the game, though, pretty much any character was a murdering machine.

End game balance is a problem that plagues every RPG, and is probably the most consistent problem across all titles and from all developers. Some studios do better than others when it comes to making the end game actually difficult, but most of the time end games are cakewalks.

How is it a problem?

 

[Grunker]

Gun Runner's was basically game-breaking in its power. By the end of the game, though, pretty much any character was a murdering machine.

End game balance is a problem that plagues every RPG, and is probably the most consistent problem across all titles and from all developers. Some studios do better than others when it comes to making the end game actually difficult, but most of the time end games are cakewalks.

How is it a problem?

Because the game becomes trivial and boring?

oh, wait, i forgot you think triviality is fun as long as it has a freedom-label stuck on it

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS LOLLOLLOL I AM NOT REALLY FOLLOWING THER WEHIOL ARGUME T AND I AM MOSTLY DRUNK ANYWAYS

ABOUT DETAILS BROS I THINK THE DETAILS ARE WHAT MADE SOME OF THE OLD GAMES GREAT

BROS IN MY IDEAL GAME YOU DONT MURDER THE SHOPKEEPER TO STEAL HIS SHIT BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO BE AN OUTLAW AND FIGHT THE HOLE TOWN ANDAS PISS OFF THE FUCKING PEROPLE WHO WILL GIVE YOU QUESTS OR THE INFOT TO SOLVE QUESTS

ANYWAYS WHATEVER

I AM PLAYING AVERNUM 2 NOW AND I NEVER WANTED TO SLAUGHTER THE TOWN CAUSE I CAN SELL MY SHIT BACK TO THEM AND I WANT TO BUY SPELLS AND I NEED MONEY AND HELP AND I DONT WANT TO SLAWTER ONE TOWN IF THE REST WILL HATE ME BROS

NOW IN FALLOUT 2 BROS EVERYTIME I FUCKING GENOCIDE NEW RENO CAUSE NO ONE CARES AND I GET PAID MOTHERFUCKERS LOLLOLOL AND IT IS FUN

 

[Apexeon]

BROS LOLLOLLOL I AM NOT REALLY FOLLOWING THER WEHIOL ARGUME T AND I AM MOSTLY DRUNK ANYWAYS

ABOUT DETAILS BROS I THINK THE DETAILS ARE WHAT MADE SOME OF THE OLD GAMES GREAT

BROS IN MY IDEAL GAME YOU DONT MURDER THE SHOPKEEPER TO STEAL HIS SHIT BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO BE AN OUTLAW AND FIGHT THE HOLE TOWN ANDAS PISS OFF THE FUCKING PEROPLE WHO WILL GIVE YOU QUESTS OR THE INFOT TO SOLVE QUESTS

ANYWAYS WHATEVER

I AM PLAYING AVERNUM 2 NOW AND I NEVER WANTED TO SLAUGHTER THE TOWN CAUSE I CAN SELL MY SHIT BACK TO THEM AND I WANT TO BUY SPELLS AND I NEED MONEY AND HELP AND I DONT WANT TO SLAWTER ONE TOWN IF THE REST WILL HATE ME BROS

NOW IN FALLOUT 2 BROS EVERYTIME I FUCKING GENOCIDE NEW RENO CAUSE NO ONE CARES AND I GET PAID MOTHERFUCKERS LOLLOLOL AND IT IS FUN

Do you accept payments of cask wine by any chance ?

 

[Nihiliste]

A bit late to the conversation, but my 2 cents.

I totally agree with the concept that the little quirks about a game are the things that stick with you over time and make a good game great. But I really don't think killing or not killing shopkeepers has anything to do with that. Is something really a quirk if it's just a feature that was included in a 20 year old game that you really like? If PoE were really going to be great and memorable, it would need have its own small eccentricities, not recycled ones from Fallout or whatever other game.