Obsidian got fucked by Bethesda

[TwinkieGorilla]

Horrible business deal that should have never been agreed to. The fact it was says a lot about Obsidian's stability -- it also says a lot about Bethesda, but most people already knew they were assholes.

Yeah, but dude? If Obsidian were actually Lando C. in this joint I totally have their back.

 

[LeStryfe79]

At least we can all rule out the possibility of Bethesda paying off some reviewers to assign scores in such a way that the metacritic average would end up at a place amenable to their business needs

Oh, most definitely...

DEFINITELY

 

[MetalCraze]

Evil Bethesda forcing poor Obsidian to make an addon to their first person shooter at the gunpoint.
Obsidian is known for creating awesome RPGs when given full freedom

 

[Forest Dweller]

Thread would not be complete without skyway coming to take a shit over everything.

 

[thesoup]

Yeah, Alpha Protocol was really free of publisher influence. They ditched Mitdosa's design for shits and giggles.
But Skyway gonna Skyway. News at 11.

 

[MetalCraze]

Yes those were Evil Publishers who ditched Mitsoda's design because it was boring and not Kill Bill enough and poor angelic Obsidian never said AP turned out to be like they envisioned it.
Clearly Evil SEGA even gave Obsidian 6 more months to ruin their dream already rushed through a short 3 years long development - so they could sell a whopping number of 500k copies.

But Evil SEGA didn't want to just stop there, they felt it was not enough - so they forced Obsidian to make a patch that made the game have even more bugs.

First Evil LucasArts fucked Obsidian. Then Evil Atari fucked Obsidian. Then Evil Bethesda fucked Obsidian. Then Evil SEGA fucked Obsidian. Then Evil Eidos began fucking Obsidian but it was bought by Evil Square Enix which gladly finished the fuckening. Wherever Obsidian goes there are always Evil Publishers just waiting to fuck this poor talented studio to get as less sales as possible.

In the next episode: Evil Southparkstudios fucked Obsidian.

 

[Brother None]

Horrible business deal that should have never been agreed to. The fact it was says a lot about Obsidian's stability -- it also says a lot about Bethesda, but most people already knew they were assholes.

I know it's not too commonly known, but having Metacritic bonuses in game developing contracts has become a well-spread standard over the past few years. I think it's horrifying considering Metacritic gets to select the sites and then determine their "weight" by themselves, in a completely opaque method of grading.

But it is pretty standard. It's not a horrible contract, it's a standard, and Obsidian is not the first dev fucked over by it (nor do I think this is the first time they have been).

... it is the mean of all the reviews.

It's not. Metacritic decides what sites/publications are in, and then gives them a "weight" towards the average. This is all done by them, internally, with no way of anyone knowing the method or results.

 

[Excommunicator]

When I read this my instinctive reaction was "this company [Bethesda] is really making too much money now, I don't think I can justify giving them my money when they conduct their business this way"
(irrespective of whether I intended to do so or not anyway)
Once a company reaches such a position of power I think it should be expected of them to act with a bit more responsibility and people should base buying decisions on that. That is the only way to properly regulate such organisations in the way that they need it (ensuring good conduct)

The Metacritic situation is just as bad, and I would have expected publishers to start trying to blackmail them to be a bit more transparent on their magical formula (even if their intent is only to know where to send the larger bribes). I think the details would have been leaked if they had already done anything of this kind. You can expect industry-wide outrage at the results if it ever does get revealed.

 

[Roguey]

Yeah, Alpha Protocol was really free of publisher influence. They ditched Mitdosa's design for shits and giggles.
But Skyway gonna Skyway. News at 11.

Obsidian ditched Mitsoda's writing because it was utterly, utterly terrible (no major character could die because Brian was saving them for his precious sequel he wouldn't shut up about, there was an author self-insert, Marburg was cartoonishly evil and forced Mike to choose between Madison and a bus full of innocent people just for the evilz, Michael Thorton cried in a cutscene afterward). Sega ditched the design and took over the project because the gameplay was shit and Obsidian had proven they couldn't handle autonomy and needed to be told what to do.

 

[sser]

Horrible business deal that should have never been agreed to. The fact it was says a lot about Obsidian's stability -- it also says a lot about Bethesda, but most people already knew they were assholes.

I know it's not too commonly known, but having Metacritic bonuses in game developing contracts has become a well-spread standard over the past few years. I think it's horrifying considering Metacritic gets to select the sites and then determine their "weight" by themselves, in a completely opaque method of grading.

But it is pretty standard. It's not a horrible contract, it's a standard, and Obsidian is not the first dev fucked over by it (nor do I think this is the first time they have been).

... it is the mean of all the reviews.

It's not. Metacritic decides what sites/publications are in, and then gives them a "weight" towards the average. This is all done by them, internally, with no way of anyone knowing the method or results.

Something can be both standard and horrible.

 

[Volrath]

Yeah, Alpha Protocol was really free of publisher influence. They ditched Mitdosa's design for shits and giggles.
But Skyway gonna Skyway. News at 11.

Obsidian ditched Mitsoda's writing because it was utterly, utterly terrible (no major character could die because Brian was saving them for his precious sequel he wouldn't shut up about, there was an author self-insert, Marburg was cartoonishly evil and forced Mike to choose between Madison and a bus full of innocent people just for the evilz, Michael Thorton cried in a cutscene afterward). Sega ditched the design and took over the project because the gameplay was shit and Obsidian had proven they couldn't handle autonomy and needed to be told what to do.

I've never played AP nor do I ever intend to. But are you pulling this shit out of your ass like you usually do? Or do you have some actual quotes about this? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Roguey]

I've never played AP nor do I ever intend to. But are you pulling this shit out of your ass like you usually do? Or do you have some actual quotes about this? I'm genuinely interested.

When have I ever made up stuff? My source is Patrick K Mills (the designer in charge of Rome) on the Something Awful forum. Unfortunately the original thread where he shared the most information has been archived (so I can't get it cause I don't have an account) but fortunately there are two more threads filled with his behind-the-scenes info (which I will now cut and paste for posterity): http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3423015&userid=19836

FYI you can thank me for not having that scene where Marburg blows up a bus full of tourists. First thing I cut when I got Rome.

Also the scene where Mike cries like a baby. No, seriously, that was a thing.
...
I couldn't say what Marburg's motivation was in the old old version shown in the animatic. I didn't write it and I never understood it. I *think* that it was because Marburg is a bitter ex-agent and he wanted Mike to become bitter and angry too. But it never really made sense to me.
...
Saying this makes it sound like we didn't make big mistakes, and we absolutely did. Big ones. There was certainly a time that we were making the best game that we could, but there were other times that making the best game we could meant making certain choices; choices that didn't get made until well after they would have been effective.

I appreciate the nice words, though.

PS: Don't mistake what I'm saying as dissing my former employees and colleagues. I think everyone involved recognizes what I just said is true, and that it's also something we learned a lot from.
...
When Mitsoda was there he talked about sequel all the time, but after he left it was not really something we talked about. "Let's get this one done, then we can worry about if there will be a second one."

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3385132&userid=19836

I'm not talking about Mary-Sue in the character insertion sense. There was one of those but he got rewritten and I'm not saying who it was.
...
No one really talked about sequels because that was actually a big problem with the original draft of the script, you couldn't actually kill anyone because they were all being saved for a direct sequel. When that script was dumped there was literally zero sequel talk from that point forward.

 

[Volrath]

Hmm. That does sound pretty retarded.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

if (Mitsoda == VD){
AoD = Ultraretarded;
}

 

[likaq]

It's hard to believe that the same Brian Mitsoda who wrote awesome dialogs in Bloodlines, could create something so silly.

 

[Infinitron]

I've never played AP nor do I ever intend to. But are you pulling this shit out of your ass like you usually do? Or do you have some actual quotes about this? I'm genuinely interested.

When have I ever made up stuff? My source is Patrick K Mills (the designer in charge of Rome) on the Something Awful forum. Unfortunately the original thread where he shared the most information has been archived (so I can't get it cause I don't have an account) but fortunately there are two more threads filled with his behind-the-scenes info (which I will now cut and paste for posterity): http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3423015&userid=19836

FYI you can thank me for not having that scene where Marburg blows up a bus full of tourists. First thing I cut when I got Rome.

Also the scene where Mike cries like a baby. No, seriously, that was a thing.
...
I couldn't say what Marburg's motivation was in the old old version shown in the animatic. I didn't write it and I never understood it. I *think* that it was because Marburg is a bitter ex-agent and he wanted Mike to become bitter and angry too. But it never really made sense to me.
...
Saying this makes it sound like we didn't make big mistakes, and we absolutely did. Big ones. There was certainly a time that we were making the best game that we could, but there were other times that making the best game we could meant making certain choices; choices that didn't get made until well after they would have been effective.

I appreciate the nice words, though.

PS: Don't mistake what I'm saying as dissing my former employees and colleagues. I think everyone involved recognizes what I just said is true, and that it's also something we learned a lot from.
...
When Mitsoda was there he talked about sequel all the time, but after he left it was not really something we talked about. "Let's get this one done, then we can worry about if there will be a second one."

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3385132&userid=19836

I'm not talking about Mary-Sue in the character insertion sense. There was one of those but he got rewritten and I'm not saying who it was.
...
No one really talked about sequels because that was actually a big problem with the original draft of the script, you couldn't actually kill anyone because they were all being saved for a direct sequel. When that script was dumped there was literally zero sequel talk from that point forward.

I have a full goon account with archive access. What's the thread called?

 

[Roguey]

I have a full goon account with archive access. What's the thread called?

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3308998
Though I think I got everything I was referring to in the two I linked above, so I guess you can just visit that one for curiosity's sake.

 

[Infinitron]

I have a full goon account with archive access. What's the thread called?

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3308998
Though I think I got everything I was referring to in the two I linked above, so I guess you can just visit that one for curiosity's sake.

Thanks.

OK I feel the need to make this absolutely clear so I'm going to make a big bold line of text.

This "honeycomb story" thing needs to die. It's untrue.

The percentage of people internally who liked or disliked Mitsoda's earlier stories means approximately nothing. It doesn't mean they were good, it doesn't mean they were bad. That's all I'll say regarding the quality of the work because I'm marginally better than shitstains that bag on co-workers publicly*, former or otherwise. I am not trying to subtly tell you what I think of any particular version of the story. This is not code. Do not read anything into this.

I include this because there are people who are superfans of Mitsoda and there are people who are superfans of Avellone (only dickholes says "MCA"). Superfans of either stripe would love to interpret my talking as picking a side in what some of them consider to be an epic battle between good and evil.

Who the hell is the thepopstalinist and where is he getting this honeycomb idea from? I'm really interested to know. I can't respond to the question without knowing what the fuck it means. It's a vague image, it could mean just about anything and from just reading two posts on the subject it sounds like it's just an empty vessel for people to project their own desires into.

*This is not in reference to djillingspree above, who is a BFF, a true broheim and who was an awesome roommate. He's not dissing anyone to say that the final product was better in *all* respects than earlier iterations. It's pretty rare for the opposite to occur.

** Also he's the lead designer on Dungeon Siege 3 which, though I have not played it yet, I am confident saying that you should go pick up a copy.

 

[Infinitron]

There's some good stuff here. He spends half the thread bashing storyfags hard, including people who think PS:T is the pinnacle of gaming.

stare all you want, but it's true. If the best writing you've ever read is from a game, you need to *read more*

ok, I'm going to lay it on the table here, just so people know what's up. I'm in a really awful mood and I swear to fuck I could probably kill a motherfucker with MY HATE right now, but what I'm about to say is totally true

no game has ever had writing as good as a good novel

period

full stop

I know many of the people who have written the best written games of all time, I'm actually sort of one of them

and all of them would agree with me here, and not just because we hate ourselves

the only way that games so far have managed to elevate their writing is when they properly utilize the medium in ways that other media cannot

:mondblut salute:

 

[Crooked Bee]

Unfortunately the original thread where he shared the most information has been archived

I have the SA archives access, so you can post the link if you want, I'll check it out and see if I can dig something up. Sounds interesting.

EDIT: Nevermind, I should've read the thread to the end before replying.

 

[Infinitron]

Unfortunately the original thread where he shared the most information has been archived

I have the SA archives access, so you can post the link if you want, I'll check it out and see if I can dig something up. Sounds interesting.

 

[SerratedBiz]

So they cut a scene where Marburg blows up a bus full of tourists but leave the scene where Marburg blows up the museum full of tourists.

 

[Infinitron]

I think the game would be better if Albatross raped Mike on the gurney like Sie does.

Albatross will hit anything.

Marburg on the other hand, has fine taste in men. Mike isn't good enough for him.

 

[Roguey]

So they cut a scene where Marburg blows up a bus full of tourists but leave the scene where Marburg blows up the museum full of tourists.

In the archived thread Infinitron's reading he says the tourists were a compromise. The "few" tourists who might die in the explosion aren't the issue, the issue is Marburg creating a culture of fear versus saving Madison's life. Of course the epilogue ends up doing the exact opposite of what he was trying to achieve by having Madison become an activist and the prevented bomb explosion creating a new Patriot act. Alpha Protocol in a nutshell: A bunch of people trying to pull a game in multiple directions at once and at the same time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Not to defend Mitsoda, but...

First, the PST comment. Nobody says that PST is like the bestest story/isometric novel ever. Any idiot - and I mean ANY idiot - would understand that when people praise the writing and the story, they praise the writing and the story in a video game.

Second, "Mitsoda writing was so bad they threw it out". I find it hard to believe, to be honest. We have a guy who's good at writing, who's been fast promoted to lead writer on TORN, was a lead writer on Bloodlines, and creative lead on AP until SEGA took over. I mentioned these positions to indicate what other people in the industry thought of him and his work. Bloodlines in particular was praised on the Codex, but now the guy is a shitty writer because some city designer says so? Seriously?

Because Mitsoda talked about a sequel all the time? The nerve!