Preview Oblivion impressions at Gamers with Jobs

[DarkUnderlord]

Even Thief sucks when you play it as Rambo. Thats what most of the reviewers were doing.

Nonsense. Thief is at its best when you're fighting 5 guards backwards down some steps. Trying to shoot a few arrows at their heads and switching to your sword just in time to block and take out the guy in front. Then right when you're about to be overwhelmed, you drop a flash bomb and finish another guy (or if you're lucky, two) off before getting back into the fray.

Sounds like Thief still has the better stealth and enemy reactions too. "Who's that tapping about?" [Guard looks around for source of noise, finds nothing] "Rats. Must be rats". It's moment like that when a guard is right in your face as you're hiding in a crook in the wall, when your heart starts to thump and you're thinking "Is he about to see me? He's not... No, he is... No, he's not... No..." that really make the game.

Oh well, guess Oblivion doesn't have any moments like that then.

 

[Levski 1912]

Even Thief sucks when you play it as Rambo. Thats what most of the reviewers were doing.

The previewer was commenting on the fact that he unstealthed to fight a goblin, and another goblin 15 feet away didn't notice. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd, especially after the hype on light and sound-based stealth?

 

[Stella Brando]

 

[FaranBrygo]

I was still willing to meet in halfway until I learned dialogue would feature a mini-game. That is just the worst sort of cop out imaginable in my mind. Heck, dialogue is probably why I like Bloodlines so much. But turning RPGs into mingames is just that unforgivable sin in mind.

I have often wondered what causes a game developer to say, "I think a DDR rip off would do nicely here." Another bone to the console kids with 3 second attention spans.

 

[Araanor]

Not only that, VD, not only that. Not to talk about the 10 or so other previews... But of course those guys are all either bribed, or idiots, right?

And how was it with Morrowind? NWN? This is pretty much as expected, for me at least.

 

[merry andrew]

The previewer was commenting on the fact that he unstealthed to fight a goblin, and another goblin 15 feet away didn't notice. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd, especially after the hype on light and sound-based stealth?

Punching people doesn't make sounds :twisted:

 

[Antiphon]

<snip>
Hilarious. So, I have to play it right. I assume that I can snipe everyone silently and their comrades would ignore the growing pile of bodies. <snip>

Now wait a minute. I thought you were all in favor of distinct classes with distinct roles. Doesn't this imply you are in favor of "play it right" for that role?"

 

[Lumpy]

Some comments on archery:

Calling archery useless in Oblivion is about the equivalent of calling a keyboard useless when typing an e-mail.

If you play an archer right -- particularly when using stealth or when outdoors -- you are hands down DEADLY. You can absolutely play the game and thrive with JUST the Marksman skill, if you play smart.

Hilarious. So, I have to play it right. I assume that I can snipe everyone silently and their comrades would ignore the growing pile of bodies.

Yes. You have to play it right. Could a light armored archer actually kill a heavy armored swordsman in open combat? I though you wanted different play styles for different classes. For an archer, you may either use stealth, or also get some melee weapons. What's so bad about that?

 

[Levski 1912]

Methinks the issue's that you can kill monsters and their buds will carry on as if nothing happened, even if they were standing close to the death- the "I'm being shot at, so I'll stand in the open." issue.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

Loading time sucks. It sucked in Morrowind and I had hoped they'd try and make the world more seamless this time Gothic can manage it, and I'm perfectly happy to take a hit to the graphics or whatever to have a smoother, more seamless world.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You mean the last paragraph? Yeah, sure.

Not only that, VD, not only that. Not to talk about the 10 or so other previews... But of course those guys are all either bribed, or idiots, right?

It's more complicated than that. I'm too lazy to search for the link at the moment, but there was an interesting article by a reviewer, who said something like "we all know each other, we meet at shows and events, and eventually it's getting very hard to give a good guy you know a poor score". To illustrate, think of MSFD. At some point, he was at the Codex a lot, chatting about this and that, even cracking some jokes about goatse. Less and less people were willing to tell him "hey, your game sucks", because he was no longer some unknown developer, but someone you know and like.

That's probably the reason why Desslock overlooked all the flaws of Dungeon Siege, and gave it 8+ score.

Anyway, did you notice that the Gamers with Job guy dedicated several paragraphs to loading problem, while the GameSpot guy claimed that loading is very fast? That's how the industry works.

 

[Vault Dweller]

<snip>
Hilarious. So, I have to play it right. I assume that I can snipe everyone silently and their comrades would ignore the growing pile of bodies. <snip>

Now wait a minute. I thought you were all in favor of distinct classes with distinct roles. Doesn't this imply you are in favor of "play it right" for that role?"

There is a difference between distinctive roles that you pick for your character and one right way to play it, which doesn't even fit the class, especially considering that multiple roles have always been the strength of TES games.

If playing an archer means that I'm playing a stealth ninja archer, and that I must pick stealth to be effective, than that sucks. If archer is useless against melee opponents, and the game lacks mechanics supporting ranged combat, then it sucks too.

Yes. You have to play it right. Could a light armored archer actually kill a heavy armored swordsman in open combat?

Could one man storm a tomb loaded with skeletons, bonelords, dremora lords, etc and kill them all? I guess not, but it's a game, and defeating hordes of enemies all by yourself is an unrealistic, but acceptable concept. Same with giving different classes: melee fighter, thief, mage, and yes, even an archer, an equal chance to defeat all enemies.

I though you wanted different play styles for different classes. For an archer, you may either use stealth, or also get some melee weapons. What's so bad about that?

What you are saying is "in Oblivion the ranged class sucks ass and is unplayable, but if you fancy using a bow, you must play another class: a sneaking thief or a melee fighter to be able to win some fights, but that's awesome, because I'm playing a role".

 

[Claw]

But.. but.. archery is all about stealth kills, right? That's the whole point of archery. The <s>cross</s>bow is the sniper rifle of the middle ages!

 

[Fodel]

Same with giving different classes: melee fighter, thief, mage, and yes, even an archer, an equal chance to defeat all enemies.

If archer is useless against melee opponents, and the game lacks mechanics supporting ranged combat, then it sucks too.

¿In Geneforge 2 a ranged pj can defeat all enemies?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Geneforge aint the shiniest example of great design, so I'm surprised you keep bringing it up. Character system is mediocre, combat sucks, many areas with no purpose but to kill things suck, etc. The good or even great elements, that are missing from TES games, btw, are choices that matter and originality.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Update from everyone's favourite archer:

Baloney. My current character uses Marksman almost exclusively for damaging attacks. I'll start off sneaking into range of an enemy, and fire off a poisoned arrow at them. My sneak skill is high enough and I'm concealed enough that I get a sneak attack bonus, so they're hurting from the start. I then cast a powerful summoned creature (usually a Daedroth), and let him go after the opponent, while I circle around & pepper my enemy with arrows.

Sometimes I'll forego the summoning, and just move around quickly, trying to avoid melee blows and fire arrow after arrow into my opponent. A few Shield potions bump up my armor rating so that any incoming damage is reduced.

Oh, and you can poison enchanted arrows, too.
...

Custom class. Majors are Alchemy, Alteration, Conjuration, Destruction, Illusion, Marksman and Sneak.

 

[Micmu]

Oh, and you can poison enchanted arrows, too.

What is he talking about?
They said you can't enchant arrows, just bows, and "magic charge" is then transfered to arrows you fire.
So let me guess - you spill the poison on a bow and it is automagically transfered to arrow(s).

 

[Elwro]

I thought they recently said you could poison one arrow. Only after firing it you could poison another one. And you won't be able to poison food.

 

[Fodel]

Geneforge aint the shiniest example of great design, so I'm surprised you keep bringing it up. Character system is mediocre, combat sucks, many areas with no purpose but to kill things suck, etc. The good or even great elements, that are missing from TES games, btw, are choices that matter and originality.

Ok, forget Geneforge , ¿any crpg where a pure pj archer can defeat all enemies? :

I'll start off sneaking into range of an enemy, and fire off a poisoned arrow at them. My sneak skill is high enough and I'm concealed enough that I get a sneak attack bonus, so they're hurting from the start. I then cast a powerful summoned creature (usually a Daedroth), and let him go after the opponent, while I circle around & pepper my enemy with arrows.

A good way of play and roleplay an archer :D , stealth, summon creatures, potions and a good weapon mele dont hurt the archer, there is 7 mayor skills, not 1, there are different enemies (¿arrows versus undead? :shock: ), there is outdoors, dungeons, tavens...

 

[Elwro]

Ok, forget Geneforge , ¿any crpg where a pure pj archer can defeat all enemies? :

Gothic2+NoTR? I'm currently playing it as an archer and I've done my killing exclusively with the bow so far. I'm in Chapter 4 (and after NoTR), but I haven't tackled any golems or trolls yet. I read it was possible to defeat them with bows only; remember also that even a pure archer can use scrolls.
And defeating all enemies is not needed for completing the game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ok, forget Geneforge , ¿any crpg where a pure pj archer can defeat all enemies? :

Gothic, Bloodlines (ranged).

 

[LlamaGod]

Mount and Blade



Anyways, I was playing System Shock 2 earlier and there was a psi-monkey in a room with no windows, just a door and I could hear him in there.

I go down the hall to fight another psi-monkey who is in the hallway, but a good distance away. After I make my shot I hear a monkey screech and once the monkey i'm attacking dies, I turn around and look down the hall and the monkey is coming out of the room and looking/walking around for stuff (like a guard in Thief).

Eventually it sees me down the hall and starts making ranged attacks.


oh shit, games from 1999 have better AI then Oblivion.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Not only that, VD, not only that. Not to talk about the 10 or so other previews... But of course those guys are all either bribed, or idiots, right?

And how was it with Morrowind? NWN? This is pretty much as expected, for me at least.

Well - I did like Morrowind

VD, the way the "industry" works may be crooked, but there is also the fact of "different strokes for different people". One guy may think a game that stutters for loads (see the wired blog, which is probably, despite the graphic whoredness, right down you alley?), while "gamerandy" loved the stealth that was criticized here:
http://www.gamerandy.com/archives/2006/ ... livi.shtml

Real briefly here, before I get started on this section I'd like to preface my comments with the following: I love playing thief/rogue class characters in RPG games, the sneaking and backstab element appeal to me in ways that I can't even explain (Watch out Hawkes!) So know that everything here might have a slight fanboy slant, because in all reality I found absolutely zero to complain about. Bethesda has absolutely done this right, I am ecstatic

Never go by a single review. I liked the gamers with jobs one btw, it was very honest and factual.

 

[Twinfalls]

From that GamerAndy playtest:

And from what i can tell, you don't actually have to go into "Sneak" mode in order to be considered sneaking. During one of my trips to a dank cave, I walked around most of it with bow drawn (which means no torch, and me stumbling around in the half light). By the end of it I found that I had ranked up twice in sneaking, when I hadn't ever actually gone into sneak mode - Apparently if you walk around slowly in the dark it considers it the same thing.

AHAhahahaha!

Is there no end to the dumbness of design this game will reveal?

 

[kris]

I'm not too knowledgeable about medieval combat, but from what I know, archers only used bows until enemies got close, and then engaged them in melee.

Aside from Samurai warriors we didn't have that many that where proificient with both bows and melee. But this game (like pretty much all other CRPGs and even PnP RPGs) fail in that injuries are not hampering a character in any way. Difference between these games and IRL is that someone hit with the first arrow are likely to fall or be put in a situation where he can't hit back. Hit in arm = can't use weapon/shield. Hit in leg = Can't run at you anymore. Hit in head = dead. Hit in shoulder = possibly fall down backwards. Not to forget that someone that have lost the equivavlent of "half their health bar" is going to feel pretty unwell and fight worse than usual. Apparently pretty much characters in all games ever made is on drugs and oblivious to pain and injuries until their threashold have passed... Fallout being the only exception I can remember that did at least have fatalties, even if their system hardly was advanced.

Lack of serious injuries and/or characters hampered by injuries is what makes all ranged attacks in RPGs works worse than advertised. That goes all the way from KOTOR to Arcanum to Oblivion.

Ps. MSFD made a poor example of why ranged attacks are effective as he used several other things to put down his enemy, including a summoning!