NWN2 to feature good/evil branching campaigns. Also sieges.

[Sol Invictus]

Looks like all the bitching paid off because someone's obviously listening. Sawyer probably took notice and so NWN2 features a branching good/evil storyline that isn't in the last 5 minutes of the game.

Throughout the 40-60 hours of gameplay in Neverwinter Nights 2, players will be faced with decisions that will let them reveal their true colors. The developers have made sure that players' decisions on whether to be good or evil will result in significant branching in the storyline. This storyline tasks players with scouring the land of Neverwinter to uncover the secrets of a strange relic and will eventually lead to a chain of events that will force you into the role of a hero.

Also sieges.

Players will need all the skills they can get if they want to make it through the challenges that await them in their quest. The storyline will eventually put them into battles far larger than anything they've had to deal with in the first game, and eventually they'll even take control of their own castle which they'll have to fortify and defend. To do this they'll have to rally people to their cause during their adventures.

Farmers, miners, and other people will come to their aid if they play their cards right. Think of it as Sim Castle Lite. Doing this won't be as involved as a session of Sim City, but it won't be something gamers can just gloss over either.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/neverwinter-ni ... 531p1.html

Now before anyone bitches about how the game forces you into the role of a hero, you can't really expect the game to force you into the role of a schmo. You can play an MMORPG if you want that sort of storyline.

 

[Zomg]

Sounds fine. I have a hard time getting any piss up about NWN2, for or against. The Obsidian guys would be the first to admit, if they weren't selling it, anyway, that they're trying to rein in a bunch of disparate camps of fan demographics, that the rules are going to be D&D porn for the teenagers that still like to write out builds on notebook paper, that the setting is license trash, that they're going to KOTORize and PJ's:TLotRize for those fan niches, and pretty much every other complaint I might have. I'll get it because I'm hard up for a dialogue RPG, and Obsidian has most of the guys who're proven in that vocation on the payroll.

 

[Drakron]

Hype.

Its easy to make claims ... both KotOR and JE have good/evil subplots but there is no long term consequence in decisions, only a question near the end.

Besides 3rd ed. D&D was not made for large scale battles, that was Chainmail purpose so when I hear about "sieges" and "large battles" that only strikes me as trying to stuff into the ruleset something that does not belong there and we know first hand how that turned up when Obsiden expanded KotOR d20 level cap to above lv 20 ... very bad.

(Not to say I dont recall anyone here asking for sieges in NwN)

In the end that is only PR shit, if you wan to fall into PR hype then go ahead ... I on the other hand reserve the right to sit and wait.

 

[Mantiis]

I love you Drakon you are my hero.

It seems like they are taking their time with this one at least; I hated how rushed KOTOR2 felt and the ending just sucked. Considering what else is on the horizon I am looking forward to this.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if the good/evil campaign plot branching happens early to the middle of the game or if it'll just turn out to be another Throne of Bhaal.

But since the game claims to be 60 hours long, it might just be that it is what they're saying it is. With nothing else on the horizon, there's nothing to do but hope for the best.

 

[Drakron]

Unfortunaly when a developer claims a game takes X hours to complete it usually found the actual adverage time people complete then is significant less.

But true enough, beyond Gothic III there is nothing ... even adventure games are better off that RPGs ... sad state of affairs for RPGs ...

 

[Voss]

Oh. Oh. I got this one-

branch- your evil actions have gotten you thrown in prison (via cutscene, which counts as a +100 Deus Ex Machina effect, therefor you are powerless against it). You are then informed that you must act in the best interest of Neverwinter (forced to be a hero) or face execution. If you choose the latter, you die and the game ends.

Teh branching!

As for the sieges. Bleh. This is either going to be handled badly through dialogue options (with cutscenes, and the occassional Epic Fight on the Battlements) or they're going to cram the screen full of far to many critters and the game is going to stutter like a badly beaten gimp.

And that doesn't even get into the rules problems for a D&D game and sieges. System just breaks like a motherfucker. You're essentially dealing (statistically) with an autohit for every 20 critters on the field. Assuming they don't have multiple attacks. But any attempt at a realistic siege should result in a dead PC.

And yes, 40-60 hours generally means 40 hours. Add the extra 20 only if you feel the urge to masturbate to the elf tits and the uber-dragons.

 

[obediah]

I want to be evil!!!!!!!!! Ev1l is teh best, because after you help everyone with their problems (just for the xp of course), you then get to make a witty or perhaps even snarky request for compensation. Then if it has real gud branching and consequences, you can tell them thats not enough money and get even more!

 

[Azarkon]

Throughout the 40-60 hours of gameplay in Neverwinter Nights 2, players will be faced with decisions that will let them reveal their true colors. The developers have made sure that players' decisions on whether to be good or evil will result in significant branching in the storyline. This storyline tasks players with scouring the land of Neverwinter to uncover the secrets of a strange relic and will eventually lead to a chain of events that will force you into the role of a hero.

Hmm...

Probably a poor choice of words. I want to believe.

 

[kris]

Unfortunaly when a developer claims a game takes X hours to complete it usually found the actual adverage time people complete then is significant less.

Well I personally always finish the game on a bit longer time than they proclaim. It is so heavily dependent on playing style.

 

[Surlent]

For example, an Arcane Archer can cast spells like Gandalf and still be able to make like Legolas with a bow and arrow.

Ha, gamespy sure knows their mass appeal.

The developers have made sure that players' decisions on whether to be good or evil will result in significant branching in the storyline.

I'm not sure if the writer really means separate campaigns. The nwn2news faq has some dev quotes which tell there will be results to your choices. But so far I haven't read anything about wholly different campaigns. And since this comes from gamespy writer's mouth i'm little sceptical. Probably just bad wording there.

 

[Atrokkus]

But true enough, beyond Gothic III there is nothing ... even adventure games are better off that RPGs ... sad state of affairs for RPGs ...

I wouldn't write off Dragon Age, though. Plus, some less-hyped titles like one Russian RPG "Dungeon Cleaners" (not sure if there's going to be english version though).

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

I'll believe it when someone else sees it and tells me about it.

 

[Spazmo]

When they say, "branching good and evil storyline!", I hear, "Just like KOTOR!" Basically, you'll probably make one choice somewhere near the end and all it'll change will be the reason you hack through the exact same final dungeon anyways and the cutscene at the end. It seems like when developers provide for good and evil, it's like they're doing as little as possible while still being allowed to check the "non-linear" box on their forms. Every game seems to have some arbitrary good and evil path now and also doesn't really give any thought to more interesting choices that the PC could make, where you choose one faction over another without any obvious morality tags applied, and hopefully without any stupid effects where you grow horns/wings and glow red/blue.

As for big sieges, well, they had one in KOTOR2 as well, defending that government building on Dantooine from the Mandalorian mercenaries. Basically, if you fulfill condition x, y, and z (turn on turrets, lay mines, rally the troops) the battle will go well. If you don't, it'll be tougher. Actually this isn't so bad, I guess, but it does show that you have to do some special work to handle large battles properly.

Heck, even the official D&D book on large battles (Heroes of Battles) doesn't actually provide rules for battles. Instead, it suggests that the DM plan out the battle beforehand and set up a few objectives for the party to accomplish that will decide the outcome of the battle (and degree of victory/failure). So both sides will be fighting without any PC interaction--the DM will already have decided the outcome of the large scale battle. The PCs will get objectives like "take this bridge", or "knock out the enemy HQ" or "destroy their catapults" and so on. Come to think of it, it's a lot like what was done in the KOTOR2 battle I mentioned above.

As for the system breaking with large battles... this is absolutely true, but I don't see how you can look at a real time D&D game and still be worried about the ruleset being broken. That's a foregone conclusion.

 

[Sirbolt]

Am i the only one who missed this part?

This storyline tasks players with scouring the land of Neverwinter to uncover the secrets of a strange relic and will eventually lead to a chain of events that will force you into the role of a hero.

Sounds like the first NWN to me.

 

[Gambler]

Every game seems to have some arbitrary good and evil path now and also doesn't really give any thought to more interesting choices

Well, I hate the concept of "good vs evil" myself, but Chris Avellone is quite good at plugging moral choices in the game. KOTOR2 being prime example.

 

[Drakron]

There is no moral choices in KotOR2 ... in fact there sould NOT be moral choices in Star Wars because that setting deals with absolute good/evil.

Not that Chris Avellone gives a damn about setting consistence as anyone that read his comments over the Basilisk war droid that he fucking turned into the Virago starfighter.

 

[kingcomrade]

By good/evil I think he means there's going to be a Karma stat. Every time you ask for payment after doing a questi you get -1 to your Karma (because everyone knows that wages are Social Injustice). And then at the end it gives you the Good Ending or the Bad Ending depending on your Karma score.

 

[Sol Invictus]

One good way to handle the good/evil stuff would be to make it so that there are 'active' NPCs in the world reacting to whatever the player does behind the scenes, giving the world a more emergent appearance, even if it's all totally scripted.

When the game has a branching good/evil plot that's focused on the retrieval of relics, they could make it so that if the player does a bunch of good stuff and follows the 'good branch', a couple of NPCs join the player's party in the middle of the game and share his purpose until the end as you fight off the bad guys to claim the relics that are eventually be found in Dungeon X.

If the player does bad stuff throughout the game and follows the 'evil branch', those two good NPCs that would otherwise join you would end up being adversaries throughout the remaining half of the game, daunting your efforts and grab some of the relics you're looking for, at which point you'll have to fight them in Dungeon Z.

Depending on what you've done throughout the game, the bad guys from Dungeon X might rally to your cause after that happens and you could accomplish what they were intending in the first place, like killing the king, taking over the kingdom, or whatever. Granted, you could have pissed them off too much, so fighting the guys from Dungeon X in the end could also be a possibility.

At least that's how I'd do it.

It'd be dissapointing if they went down the KOTOR route.

 

[Deacdo]

At least now that you can control your party members people will be able to make decent mods from NWN2.

I thought the game was only going to be 20 hours long?

Given how little of interest is coming out in the RPG genre, this is worth looking into (despite how awful NWN1 was).

 

[Sol Invictus]

Yeah, one of the biggest shortcomings with NWN (aside from the poor OC) was the fact that you couldn't control your companions without some downloaded hacks. It's nice to see that they're prioritizing some of the elements that made Baldur's Gate 2 a good single player game.

 

[Deacdo]

Someone finally made hacks for NWN that allowed you to control your companions? Does it work well (and work with the various expansions and mods)?

Speaking of BG2, I picked up a copy of it and the expansion for cheap a while back. Are any of the seemingly endless # of mods for it worthwhile (as in add significantly to the game and don't break what little balance there is left)?

 

[SanguinePenguin]

Speaking of BG2, I picked up a copy of it and the expansion for cheap a while back. Are any of the seemingly endless # of mods for it worthwhile (as in add significantly to the game and don't break what little balance there is left)?

http://www.imoen.org/

Nothing more significant than incest.

 

[Bradylama]

This whole castle thing sounds a lot like building up the player character's fortress in the Suikoden games. I also imagine that good and evil plotlines thing being the good player character defends the castle and the evil one attacks it.

In any case, it sounds like it'll be an interesting take on Neverwinter Nights. Which isn't really saying much, admittedly, but at least they're giving it the old college try. Obsidian has a track record of taking Bioware's excrement and polishing it out into a shiny penny.

There is no moral choices in KotOR2 ... in fact there sould NOT be moral choices in Star Wars because that setting deals with absolute good/evil.

I don't think anybody's shedding tears over consistancy for Star Wars anymore. Besides, the game did deal with absolute good and evil by saying that the whole dichotomy was a bunch of tripe.

Best Star Wars story ever told.

 

[Data4]

There is no moral choices in KotOR2 ... in fact there sould NOT be moral choices in Star Wars because that setting deals with absolute good/evil.

I don't think anybody's shedding tears over consistancy for Star Wars anymore. Besides, the game did deal with absolute good and evil by saying that the whole dichotomy was a bunch of tripe.

Best Star Wars story ever told.

I want to see a single player Star Wars RPG that takes cues from Galaxies as far as character types. I don't give a shit about being "TeH OOb3R Jeddi". I'd like to play it out as a smuggler, bounty hunter, or trader like the Azzameens in X-Wing Alliance. You know-- exist, react, and adapt to all the crap going on in the universe.

-D4